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Thread: Lowry sitting with "back spasms"

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I meant that more from a salary-matching perspective in trade, as opposed to actual dollar value.

    If the Raps are gung-ho to make a trade and Calderon isn't generating enough return, I could see them turning to Lowry as the trade asset instead.

    I actually thought that Memphis might value decent young players on super cheap contracts, that Boston could offer (Sullinger, Bradley, Melo). Davis & Sullinger could be good insurance for Gasol & Randolph. Such a deal would also make Arthur expendable, possibly to be used in a subsequent trade for a wing (ie: I wonder if Arthur to Denver for Chandler could work for both Denver & Memphis).
    That is where I now want no part of Gay. If Lowry is gone, getting Gay makes even less sense than it could now be argued.
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  2. #42
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    My point is more this: why trade a lottery pick for a guy in his prime with 2 years left on his deal if you aren't going to use him properly or play him in a system that benefits him? You aren't going to change a guy like Lowry. He is what he is. Lowry is, in fact, playing some of the best ball of his career and no one is happy with him. That's fine but it makes you wonder what the hell Colangelo was thinking when he did this deal in the first place.
    Couldn't agree more. Devlin and Jack Armstrong went on for a couple of minutes during last night's broadcast on how bad Lowry has been coming off the bench. I checked the game logs for the last 15 games, the ones where he's the backup, and he's averaging 16.5 points and 8.8 assists per 36 minutes (my calculations). And he's shooting 45% from three. That's GOOD! I also compared his Per 36 minutes stats with Damian Lillard, for example, he seems to be everybody's favourite, and Lowry's are better across the board. Lowry's played well this year considering the circumstances. We need to move on from the Calderon era. And I want a crappy point guard to back Lowry up (wait, we already have one). I'm tired of point guard controversies.
    Last edited by Michel G; Tue Jan 29th, 2013 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is where I now want no part of Gay. If Lowry is gone, getting Gay makes even less sense than it could now be argued.
    +1

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Devlin and Jack Armstrong went on for a couple of minutes during last night's broadcast on how bad Lowry has been coming off the bench. I checked the game logs for the last 15 games, the ones where he's the backup, and he's averaging 16.5 points and 8.8 assists per 36 minutes (my calculations). And he's shooting 45% from three. That's GOOD! I also compared his Per 36 minutes stats with Damian Lillard, for example, he seems to be everybody's favourite, and Lowry's are better across the board. Lowry's played well this year considering the circumstances. We need to move on from the Calderon era. And I want a crappy point guard to back Lowry up (wait, we already have one). I'm tired of point guard controversies.
    To them, Lowry was bad because he is not Jose Calderon.

    Matt and Jack, i think more Jack in particular, i think, both have affinity for guys who are team-oriented, nice and clean cut guys. And Jack is very old school. So i guess to them, Lowry's bullish, aggressive type of play wont get it done.

  5. #45
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    To them, Lowry was bad because he is not Jose Calderon.

    Matt and Jack, i think more Jack in particular, i think, both have affinity for guys who are team-oriented, nice and clean cut guys. And Jack is very old school. So i guess to them, Lowry's bullish, aggressive type of play wont get it done.
    I don't completely agree with your assessment. I think a lot of people - myself included - see the primary responsibility of a PG to be that of a true floor general, who initiates the offense and gets the entire team going in the team's offensive flow. Obviously Calderon is much better and getting more out of each player and the 5-man unit than Lowry. I think PGs like Lowry are better served as 2nd unit PGs, where their scoring ability can often take centre stage. The problem with the starting PG being too scoring-centric, is that sometimes the rest of the team's offense stagnates and it winds up being 1-on-5 offensively.

    I agree that it's an old-school approach, but I think it's more the pass-first VS score-first style of PG debate. I don't think the "nice and clean cut guys" factors into their analysis though.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Devlin and Jack Armstrong went on for a couple of minutes during last night's broadcast on how bad Lowry has been coming off the bench. I checked the game logs for the last 15 games, the ones where he's the backup, and he's averaging 16.5 points and 8.8 assists per 36 minutes (my calculations). And he's shooting 45% from three. That's GOOD! I also compared his Per 36 minutes stats with Damian Lillard, for example, he seems to be everybody's favourite, and Lowry's are better across the board. Lowry's played well this year considering the circumstances. We need to move on from the Calderon era. And I want a crappy point guard to back Lowry up (wait, we already have one). I'm tired of point guard controversies.
    Overall +1.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I don't completely agree with your assessment. I think a lot of people - myself included - see the primary responsibility of a PG to be that of a true floor general, who initiates the offense and gets the entire team going in the team's offensive flow. Obviously Calderon is much better and getting more out of each player and the 5-man unit than Lowry. I think PGs like Lowry are better served as 2nd unit PGs, where their scoring ability can often take centre stage. The problem with the starting PG being too scoring-centric, is that sometimes the rest of the team's offense stagnates and it winds up being 1-on-5 offensively.

    I agree that it's an old-school approach, but I think it's more the pass-first VS score-first style of PG debate. I don't think the "nice and clean cut guys" factors into their analysis though.
    jose may be nice, but clean cut? LOL looks like he just woke up & drove to work all the time LOL as for the style debate i think there could be arguements made for & against both.. i dont think either is the answer but if i had to role someone out there every night that is currently on our team id prob go with jose.. with some roster modification Lowry would be the better long term..that is if we could land a legit all-star calibre player to be the Top Dog, Lowry would be a good 2nd or 3rd option.. also any offense that keeps the ball moving would be ideal since Lowry can be a black hole when he goes ISO

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    jose may be nice, but clean cut? LOL looks like he just woke up & drove to work all the time LOL as for the style debate i think there could be arguements made for & against both.. i dont think either is the answer but if i had to role someone out there every night that is currently on our team id prob go with jose.. with some roster modification Lowry would be the better long term..that is if we could land a legit all-star calibre player to be the Top Dog, Lowry would be a good 2nd or 3rd option.. also any offense that keeps the ball moving would be ideal since Lowry can be a black hole when he goes ISO
    Calderon looks like he pulls an all nighter every night lol
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  9. #49
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I don't completely agree with your assessment. I think a lot of people - myself included - see the primary responsibility of a PG to be that of a true floor general, who initiates the offense and gets the entire team going in the team's offensive flow. Obviously Calderon is much better and getting more out of each player and the 5-man unit than Lowry. I think PGs like Lowry are better served as 2nd unit PGs, where their scoring ability can often take centre stage.
    I don't completely agree with your assessment either. Lowry has done a better job of getting his teammates involved in the last 15 games. His better assists totals attests to that. The wing players have been productive with Lowry on the floor. What Jose does as well as almost anybody in the league is to get the bigs involved. He's excellent at that. But with more time I believe Lowry will improve on that. Never to Jose's level, but you can't have everything.

  10. #50
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Overall +1.
    Agreed. Hey Matt I would like a factual thread on BC's overall stats as GM with, if able, comparisons to other GM's that have held their posts as long as BC..

    More and more I think we need to turn the page on BC...the only caveat being that BC knows all of the problems and a new GM would take time to get up to speed.

  11. #51
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    Agreed. Hey Matt I would like a factual thread on BC's overall stats as GM with, if able, comparisons to other GM's that have held their posts as long as BC..

    More and more I think we need to turn the page on BC...the only caveat being that BC knows all of the problems and a new GM would take time to get up to speed.
    That thread sounds painful and time consuming.

    Here is BC's record as Raptors GM:

    http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm


    You can go through each team's GM to get an idea of how long they've been there and what they have done. A quick look through and you will see BC's new motto is: "Hey! It could be worse! I'm not Geoff Petrie!"
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That thread sounds painful and time consuming.

    Here is BC's record as Raptors GM:

    http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm


    You can go through each team's GM to get an idea of how long they've been there and what they have done. A quick look through and you will see BC's new motto is: "Hey! It could be worse! I'm not Geoff Petrie!"
    It was funny seeing these names there:

    Darrick "the original marcus banks" Martin
    Uros "the wall" Slokar
    Juan "quick first step" Dixon
    Luke "sweet shooter" Jackson
    Maceo "the inside presence" Baston
    Hassan "defensive stopper" Adams
    Jake "murderer" voshkul
    Roko "spurs killer" Ukic
    Will "CP3 wannabee" Solomon
    Patrick "the skyscraper" O'Bryant
    Pops "hyper" mensah-bonsu
    Ronald "im a scorer" Dupree
    Sundiata "buzzer beater" gaines
    Primoz "gangsta" Brezec
    QUINCY DOUBY!!!!

    sorry im on my third glass of wine.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Tue Jan 29th, 2013 at 11:07 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    hahahaha

    I think its fairly obvious that im a Lowry fan, even during his Memphis and Houston days. The guy goes all out, balls out when he plays. It may have disadvantages but IMO those are highly outweighed by what he brings to the table.

    I say let him play his game, get talent with (not around) him and see what he can do. Its his first year on a team that has no identity plus he essentially entered a situation that he just left with his former team (PG controversy). Really doesnt help the guy out positively.

    The problem is, the team keeps coddling Jose when there is a PG controversy, and where has Jose taken this team? How bout letting Jose get the ugly brunt of the PG controversy stick this time and let the other guy win for a change. Cant get any worse.
    +1

  14. #54
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Devlin and Jack Armstrong went on for a couple of minutes during last night's broadcast on how bad Lowry has been coming off the bench. I checked the game logs for the last 15 games, the ones where he's the backup, and he's averaging 16.5 points and 8.8 assists per 36 minutes (my calculations). And he's shooting 45% from three. That's GOOD! I also compared his Per 36 minutes stats with Damian Lillard, for example, he seems to be everybody's favourite, and Lowry's are better across the board. Lowry's played well this year considering the circumstances. We need to move on from the Calderon era. And I want a crappy point guard to back Lowry up (wait, we already have one). I'm tired of point guard controversies.
    +1

    Can you run the team??

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    i just read an article saying the raps are moving closer to a GAY deal...which in itself is nothing new but at the end of the article it mentioned that the Grizz would get a young player & a future pick from the raps & Jose to be flipped to a 3rd team yet to be found, also mentioned is the Grizz had attempted to include Ross in the deal & was told by raps that Ross was Untouchable! makes me wonder if maybe that young player is Demar & not Davis... or maybe both?


    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...For_Third_Team

    i hope this remains the stance with Ross & if it does ill give BC credit for that.. Ross is a Keeper!
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Tue Jan 29th, 2013 at 11:27 PM.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Pretty funny how both Ross and JV, picks that were heavily criticized at first, are now the only 2 players on the roster that are "untouchable".

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Default My problem with Lowry

    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    These arguments along the lines of "we-need-this-guy or we-need-that-guy to make Lowry effective", just don't make any sense. First of all, Lowry simply isn't elite enough on offense or defense to start planning your entire roster around. You would just be repeating the exact same mistake you made with Bargs for the last 3+ years with Lowry. Secondly, I thought great players were supposed to make lesser players better, and not vice versa?
    I like Lowry.... My problem is his DEFENCE.....he takes too many gambles! He leaves his opposing PG open many times in order to try to get steals.

    I personally would trade him to boston for Bradley (a VERY GOOD defensive player) & Green/Sullinger or a 1st round pick (If boston is willing)

    That would be a good trade for us

    Lowry is NOT elite......he's clearly NOT the player we're looking for....he is what he is

    Maybe we can use the pick to get a player through the draft (a PG) that can learn under Calderon for a season or 2

    We dont have the talent to run with Lowry and he doesnt run the offence well enough to be our starting PG of the future

    He would play very well with a team like boston because they have good talent to surround him

    For the Raps he's currently just a back-up PG and he's better than just a backup.....Doc Rivers, KG and PP might be what he needs to take the next step

    PLUS

    He's injured too often for my liking! He plays soooo hard.....He seems out of shape to me.......Whats not to say he gets injured again? Then what?

    I personally think its obvious BC made a mistake giving up our 1st round pick for him....especially since we're rebuilding and it looks like we're heading to the lottery AGAIN

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Pretty funny how both Ross and JV, picks that were heavily criticized at first, are now the only 2 players on the roster that are "untouchable".
    thank BC for not being one of those GM's who's scared to go out on a limb... BC may make some bone head moves as far as free agents but hes done a pretty good job in the draft except Bargs obviously
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Wed Jan 30th, 2013 at 12:02 AM.

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    thank BC for not being one of those GM's who's scared to go out on a limb... BC may make some bone head moves as far as free agents but hes done a pretty good job in the draft except Bargs obviously
    bargs was the right pick. he, is the one who failed not bc there.

    I don't mind bc as a gm. I do think sometimes his swing for the fences all in is a bit over the top but I do prefer that to a gm who comes in and just works the draft every year while taking millions of dollars.

    with bc the front office becomes a topic of discussion.

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    So with the game in ATL is it imprtant we start Lowry to assert himself back to the starting PG or do we continue playing Calderon to start to try and boost his value? I really dont think it can go up anymore its the best its ever going to get and that GSW game was the old Calderon....

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