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Thread: This abusive relationship ends today

  1. #21
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Demar doesnt have two forward-centers who play together the whole game, sleeping, eating and making a living in the paint.

    Plus, Gay wouldnt need FTs to finish games.
    Rudy Gay is usually forced to be more perimeter oriented with the example you said. Rudy Gay is originally known as a "slasher, who can create a shot and shoot from outside". Not a "outside shooter than can find his way to the basket."

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like the negativity.

    brings back memories of jv and tr draftings.
    It's fun being on the other side all the time isn't (I realize the irony of this considering I was against drafting JV), but I was right about everything else damnit!)
    your pal,
    ebrian

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    I'm concerned about the finances for a team that isn't very good. If you are capped out, you damn well better be in the top portion of the playoffs, not scrapping for 8th.

    In an on court sense, neither Gay or Demar are great shooters, so I wonder about the overlap and redundancy of their games. I am most worried about T Ross since he has the shooting and has been progressing nicely. If Fields continues to get minutes over Ross then we have just sabotaged our best winger (long-term).

    Gay will put up numbers and I do believe we had to make a move. But I don't like that we didn't get anything other than 1 player out of this deal, who makes max money but without being truly elite. He isn't Durant, LeBron or Paul, or even Westbrook, Love, or Griffin. He is solidly a tier below but with the same financial responsibilities. I would prefer Granger, but one thing is for sure, this is a turning point in the franchise and will ultimately decide the fate of Colangelo.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    This is true about the capping out, but nothing has changed. We have the same flexibility now as we would have had if we didn't make the trade. Colangelo unfortunately cornered himself in that position with the number of horrible signings and an unnecessary extension.

    The difference is before you could wiggle your toes and now to do that you have to hold your breath.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    prior to the trade... i did not like it...

    when it happened, i was suprisingly indifferent...

    in hindsight, i'm not so mad... and i'm on the brink of liking it

    the reality is, the raps weren't going to convince a top level SF to come here as a free agent... our history in free agency should prove that... and with the assets the team had, what were we really going to get through a trade?

    Gay is the best case scenario.... sure, you can think that a franchise player would be the best case scenario, but really that's an unrealistic case scenario

    seeing Jose go SUCKS... it really sucks...

    but you got to give up something to get something.. and it's not so much about his quality as a player, but his contract's value as a trade asset

    Bargs wasn't going to get us a quality SF... Derozan wasn't going to get us a quality SF... a big expiring contract, that would.

    and Gay is a solid player... he might not be a superstar player, but immediately he becomes the player on the team closest to being one..

    and if it doesn't pan out... the hilarity of upcoming Gay jokes will soften the blow

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You mean after Iguodala got away with a foul on Paul George?????
    Or you mean OJ Mayo not getting the call in Dallas....?????
    http://www.nba.com/2013/news/01/30/n....ap/index.html

    It has nothing to do with who our team's got....it has everything to do with NBA refs sucking
    Didnt that just proved my point? That stars get star calls or non-calls as well?

    I dont think its that NBA refs suck, but what they decide to do at certain times in games. Its not like they "missed" a call, it was their decision not to make the call. And they really dont care if the NBA apologizes or not, fact of the matter is, game is done, they went home early, end of story.

    Why would Casey go on a tirade like that if he didnt feel like his team was robbed? It was intentional on the part of referees, they choose not to blow the whistle, its not a matter of did they see it or not, its a matter of not acknowledging it.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    No, it doesn't prove your point, wtf are you talking about? Your argument was that Iguodala got a call because he was a star. Well, George is a star, and young usually trumps old in the NBA, unless you're Kobe or Duncan. George and Indiana were robbed of the game. They deserved to win, not Iggy and Denver.
    As for Mayo, he's a way bigger name than Price, and Portland got the benefit of the call on a block/charge. By your initial logic, Mayo should have gotten the whistle as he was clearly the bigger name/star in that play...so why did they give it to Portland?
    If you're LeBron or Kobe, or KD or Melo, you will get calls. But guys like George, Mayo, Demar....2nd and 3rd tier stars who deserve calls at time but don't get them. So my point is, who you are has nothing to do with what call you get. Refs make bad calls for no real reason. And Raps fans should know that as VINCE NEVER GOT A STAR WHISTLE while he was here, and he was the most popular player in the world for some of that time. NBA refs suck. Star calls happen, but Demar's call had nothing to do with who he was. Mayo and George were my examples to support that it doesn't matter who you are, if the refs don't want to make the call, they won't. And they're either not making it because they don't see it, which is terrible, or they are choosing to ignore a game-deciding play...which is even worse....

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like the negativity.

    brings back memories of jv and tr draftings.
    so the jury is out on JV and TR already? I havent seen anything special from them yet.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    so the jury is out on JV and TR already? I havent seen anything special from them yet.
    Have you been watching consistently?

    Their play has not been consistent but there is enough flashes to think they were solid picks and both were absolutely slammed by fans and media when it happened.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #30
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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    When I first started watching and loving NBA ball, the Raptors didn't exist. I loved the Malone/Stockton Jazz and Hakeem's Rockets. Being Canadian, though, and a na´ve kid, I got excited about the Raptors, first with Mighty Mouse, and then really became a die-hard fan during the Vince Carter years. It's been 15 painful, abusive years of fandom now, and let me tell you: I'm getting out. I'm checking into a battered fan's shelter. Maybe I'll find a new team to love; right now both the Jazz and the Rockets, my first flings, seem like really great bandwagons to jump on.
    BC is just trying to save his job period.
    All I know is, the Raptors are fucked for the foreseeable future. I can forgive some of Colangelo's mistakes. I thought O'Neal was a risky move, but one worth taking. I loved the drafting of Bargnani. I was really starting to get on board with Ross, and I was excited for JV's future. I was an extremely vocal supporter of the Fields signing. I even gave him a pass for not trading Bosh--maybe there just weren't any decent deals out there worth taking.

    But I just can't forgive him the Turkoglu signing, or the Bargnani extension, or the DeRozan extension. All of those moves looked terrible at the time, were almost universally condemned (well, there were a few weirdos who thought the Turk deal, though certainly an overpayment, was a worthwhile risk to keep Bosh around), and turned out awful. And now here's another one. Nobody--but nobody--thinks this trade is a good idea. I won't even go into the reasons, because it's just so obvious.

    Toronto for the next 3 years is stuck in the same position the Isaiah Thomas Knicks were in, and I'm not sticking around to take the abuse.
    BC is just trying to save his job period.

  11. #31
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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    Speak for yourself. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people on here love the trade.

    Not to mention all the casual fans and 12 year old boys that love watching highlight reel dunks.
    Highlight reels are nice but a winning record is better.

  12. #32
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You mean after Iguodala got away with a foul on Paul George?????
    Or you mean OJ Mayo not getting the call in Dallas....?????
    http://www.nba.com/2013/news/01/30/n....ap/index.html

    It has nothing to do with who our team's got....it has everything to do with NBA refs sucking
    Fans should bring signs to the game "are NBA refs anti-Canadian?"

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter Pill's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    so the jury is out on JV and TR already? I havent seen anything special from them yet.
    They haven't signed extensions yet so everyone wants to keep them.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    No, it doesn't prove your point, wtf are you talking about? Your argument was that Iguodala got a call because he was a star. Well, George is a star, and young usually trumps old in the NBA, unless you're Kobe or Duncan. George and Indiana were robbed of the game. They deserved to win, not Iggy and Denver.
    As for Mayo, he's a way bigger name than Price, and Portland got the benefit of the call on a block/charge. By your initial logic, Mayo should have gotten the whistle as he was clearly the bigger name/star in that play...so why did they give it to Portland?
    If you're LeBron or Kobe, or KD or Melo, you will get calls. But guys like George, Mayo, Demar....2nd and 3rd tier stars who deserve calls at time but don't get them. So my point is, who you are has nothing to do with what call you get. Refs make bad calls for no real reason. And Raps fans should know that as VINCE NEVER GOT A STAR WHISTLE while he was here, and he was the most popular player in the world for some of that time. NBA refs suck. Star calls happen, but Demar's call had nothing to do with who he was. Mayo and George were my examples to support that it doesn't matter who you are, if the refs don't want to make the call, they won't. And they're either not making it because they don't see it, which is terrible, or they are choosing to ignore a game-deciding play...which is even worse....
    I guess it becomes subjective when we start talking about stars because to me, Igoudala is still "the" star compared to George. Youre defining George as a star just because he made the all-star team? How do you define George as a "star" when Iguodala has been an all-star, all-NBA defensive team, rookie game MVP and olympian gold medalist. When youre the referee and you see Iguodala and George collide in the air, and youve been a referee for many years in the league, who do you think would be more familiar to you?

    And Young trumps old? So you think Kyrie will get a call over Lebron? Or Cousins over Aldridge? If that was the case then why didnt Demar get the call over Horford?

    And thats exactly my point, Indiana deserved to win but refs gave Iguodala the star call, same with Demar, the Raptors deserved that shot to win but because Demar isnt considered a "star" in the league, he didnt get the call. What im implying is right or wrong, if you are a "star" you will get the benefit of the call, deserving or not.

    Its not about name, its earning your dues in the league. Mayo didnt get a call because he's not a star. what has he earned? again, deserving or not is not what im getting at, he's not a star so he wont get calls in situations like that.

    You just said "If you're LeBron or Kobe, or KD or Melo, you will get calls." and then you say "So my point is, who you are has nothing to do with what call you get." then "Star calls happen" Im a bit confused. I think the difference in our argument is that youre saying the the refs blow the whistle for stars, and when they dont, its just because they missed a call. But IMO, if youre a star, you get calls plus the non-calls, if that non-call is to your team's advantage.

    I disagree. Vince got a lot of whistles. He went to the line almost 7 times a game when he was in Toronto and almost 8 times a game when he went to Jersey. Comparable to Bryant at that time.

    I know people say referees are human, etc etc but theyre always, always at a position to see the play, thats their job. Its instinctive to them, so when they miss a call, specially a very very crucial call, IMO, its because they decide not to call it, not because they missed it.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    Nobody--but nobody--thinks this trade is a good idea. I won't even go into the reasons, because it's just so obvious.
    I guess I'm a Nobody.

    .

    That being said, there are a number of reasons why this trade had to happen, or needed to happen (IMO):

    1) Jose was most likely gone at the end of the season, if Raps couldn't pull the trigger on a trade. Just making a trade to get something back, would've [probably] meant 10 million (or thereabouts) coming back to T.O. As such, this trade could boil down to Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. I think I'm okay with that.

    2) Ed Davis is a great Bench player, but from the way some U.S. media types are describing him, Ed is God's gift to basketball. They might as well shout out: "Only a matter of time before Davis is an All-Star". To make their point, these Analysts turned their focus to Offensive numbers. And efficiency.

    Rudy Gay gets double coverage. Ed Davis gets double coverage when he's sitting down on the Bench (with one guy on either side of him). Rudy Gay has made some Clutch shots. Ed Davis is a great Rebounder, but his Defensive abilities are over-stated. In Net Points per Possession, there is a 7.2 differential - in favour of Rudy Gay.

    Rudy Gay - 82games

    Ed Davis - 82games

    3) CANADA - This is the biggest impediment to attracting talented Free Agents. Or keeping them for that matter. I think we're being delusional, in not seeing the difficulty here. As Hedo demonstrated, the only way to get them, is to OUT-BID everyone else. While on the Turkaglu thing, what screwed up that endeavour, was Toronto trying to change him from a Point-Forward to a spot-up Shooter - a result of the fact that Raps had Jack & Jose fighting over PG duties, and ball distribution. Take Jack out of the picture, and the rein of Hedo might've been different in T.O.

    Okay ... maybe not.

    4) Bill Simmons tweet - "Automated Hollinger saying Human Hollinger's trade w/ Toronto made Toronto 6 wins worse". According to Hollinger numbers, Andrea Bargnani (prior to this season), had a PER of 15.6 (2009-10), 16.5 (2010-11), and 18.0 (2011-12). One minute Hollinger is being referenced for a suitable statistic, then next he's being dismissed, because AB is not an above average player. As they say, you can't suck and blow at the same time.

    5) Ed was sold high. Jose was sold simply because Raps had no guarantee that he would return. Actually, maybe BC was already aware of what was going to happen. As to Rudy, I think we bought low.

    So there ... an opinion from a Nobody.

    .

    Side note - Add reffing to the Canadian equation. NBA Players don't want to play for Toronto, and Refs don't want too either.

    Think about that. lol
    .
    Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Thu Jan 31st, 2013 at 05:51 PM.

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