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Thread: ESPN Insider Grades the Trades - Raptors Get C-

  1. #1
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Default ESPN Insider Grades the Trades - Raptors Get C-

    Detroit Pistons: A-
    Memphis Grizzlies: B
    Toronto Raptors: C-

    Below is the Raptors analysis, read the whole thing here.

    Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo must really, really like Haddadi. That's the immediate reaction to the Raptors sending their starting point guard and a promising young forward in exchange for one of the least productive "max contract" players in the league.

    Gay remains the "Exhibit A" counterexample to the argument that LeBron James is all athleticism and zero skill. A freak athlete, Gay scrapes the rafters on dunks, but he's not a reliable shooter, doesn't move the needle defensively and doesn't attack the rim like someone at his level of athleticism.

    And at 26, this is pretty much what we're going to get.

    Advanced stats are pretty "meh" on Gay. His player efficiency rating this season is a slightly below-average 14.3, but he's being paid like someone rated in the 20s. However, his numbers aren't just lukewarm by the standards of current Memphis VP of Basketball Ops and former ESPN Insider John Hollinger's metrics. Regularized adjusted-plus minus (RAPM) considers Gay to be an average player in the league and ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's system sees Gay as being worth just 1.2 wins above replacement (WARP) this season, despite playing almost 36.7 minutes per game.

    (It's worth pointing out that Davis, whom Colangelo sent to Memphis, has been worth twice as many wins this season -- 2.5 WARP -- than Gay in significantly less playing time.)
    From another Insider piece, here's an excerpt:

    You can expect the Raptors to remain aggressive on the trade market, if not before next month's deadline then certainly during the summer. With Bargnani, Fields, and Lowry all inked to the kind of cap-clogging middling contracts next season that you like to avoid, and Gay's massive deal now on board, a trade centered around Bargnani might be the only way for Toronto to make any further kind of meaningful change.

    It's easy to nitpick on the acquisition of Gay, and it is kind of like putting finishing touches on a painting missing more than a few key strokes. Plus, there are more than a few contracts on Toronto's ledger that have pay-to-performance ratios which are a little & uncomfortable. But if the Raptors want to add impact talent, they've got to take chances. If you're going to roll the dice, you do it on a player with the upside of Rudy Gay.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    It is absolutely crucial for Colangelo to make a few more deals. I really do not think you can judge this deal from a Raps perspective until the trade deadline has passed.

    I just do not feel confident though, trusting in BC to make the right moves.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Gay is going to make these ESPN journalists look like clowns
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Meh. On another note, Kenny Smith said today that if the Raps had this lineup at the start of the season. They'd be in 4th seed right now.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    We're a top 5 team in the east next season. Book it!

    K Low
    DeRozan
    Gay
    Johnson
    Big V

    very very good lineup. Better than Brooklyn
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    same people who shit on jv and tr

    whatever

    all negativity makes me feel better.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    same people who shit on jv and tr

    whatever

    all negativity makes me feel better.
    people really need to stop examining trades in isolation.

    I'm withholding judgment until the trade deadline.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    "That's the immediate reaction to the Raptors sending their starting point guard and a promising young forward in exchange for one of the least productive "max contract" players in the league."

    love it! Our starting point guard...who was never supposed to be our starter and is a free agent in months. A promising young forward...who alternates with amir johnson in having good games. We couldn't meld them into one person, so we traded one. Least productive max player....don't they know the exchange rate up here? At least they don't have any facts.

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    Colangelo just admitted on NBA TV game time crew that he is already had talks and all are set to send Bargs out! waiting for him to get healthy and on the court is the only thing waiting to happen.!! I SMELLL Pau Gasolll hereeee ummm... now its getting interesting hmm Kyle..gay..Gasol hmm not too shabby

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    people really need to stop examining trades in isolation.

    I'm withholding judgment until the trade deadline.
    unfortunately people dont have magic crystal balls to look into the future to help with their evaluation of the current trade.

    the trade itself? i dont like it at all.
    a bunch of trades together? that hasnt happened yet so you cant even comment on that.

    also

    bargs still with the team after trade deadline? ***

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i do think it's funny how usually after all the breakdowns are done the last sentences are usually "but whoever gets the best player is the one who "won" the trade"

    not when the raptors are invovled.
    if la, new york traded an expiring and 1 young player the talk would be about how gay is the best player in the trade and they used the new collective bargaining agreement to their advantage.

    hate to see ed go, been with him over amir since day 1. but lets get bargs out and move on with the future.

    good trade for us, and i also don't read about any picks going out.
    Last edited by Miekenstien; Thu Jan 31st, 2013 at 01:31 AM.
    For The Win

  12. #12
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i do think it's funny how usually after all the breakdowns are done the last sentces are usually "but whoever gets the best player is the one who "won" the trade"

    not when the raptors are invovled.
    if la, new york traded an expiring and 1 young player the talk would be about how gay is the best player in the trade and they used the new collective bargaining agreement to their advantage.

    hate to see ed go, been with him over amir since day 1. but lets get bargs out and move on with the future.

    good trade for us, and i also don't read about any picks going out.
    I've read/heard that the Raps included their 2013 2nd round pick and cash in the deal, in addition to Calderon and Davis.

    I haven't heard/read anything officially saying that Haddadi had been waived, but it seemed to be widely speculated, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I've read/heard that the Raps included their 2013 2nd round pick and cash in the deal, in addition to Calderon and Davis.

    I haven't heard/read anything officially saying that Haddadi had been waived, but it seemed to be widely speculated, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.
    He has no visa to come to Canada.

  14. #14
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    He could "in theory" work here on a visitor's visa because performing at the ACC qualifies for certain perfomance visa exceptions. It would all come down to what his US work permit says. He would need a country of re-entry if he entered Canada without the proper visa.

    To avoid headaches they could just buy him out but if they really want him they could get some lawyers on that for sure.

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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i do think it's funny how usually after all the breakdowns are done the last sentences are usually "but whoever gets the best player is the one who "won" the trade"

    not when the raptors are invovled.
    if la, new york traded an expiring and 1 young player the talk would be about how gay is the best player in the trade and they used the new collective bargaining agreement to their advantage.

    hate to see ed go, been with him over amir since day 1. but lets get bargs out and move on with the future.

    good trade for us, and i also don't read about any picks going out.
    Ya. Fuck ESPN. All of a sudden Jose and ED are getting praise RAINED down on them (which I think they deserve, just think it's funny it doesn't come until they're on American teams.)

    When Jose's with the raps, its always "worst defensive player in the league, that backup who doesn't turn the ball over etc." Now he's one of the top PG's in the league, best shooter etc.

    I love Jose, and I love Boss davis, but Gay is easily the best player in this deal, and ESPN can shove their grades up their ass.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    You know what ESPN is worth when they lump Lowry's deal in with Bargnani's and Field's as "cap-clogging". Lowry's deal is mint for the player he is.
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    Two things from me that are underplayed in the analysis from US outlets.:

    1. Hollins' system was a Rudy Gay killer...everything runs through the Marc and Zac. It's a classic fresh start in a better system trade.

    2. The deal was essentially Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. If detroit wanted Jose as badly as they did (along with other teams), they would have signed him for more than the raps would be willing to this offseason.

    3. Simmons was killing BC for the deal last night on NBA Countdown...how many times have we heard Simmons say "you always turn a handful of quarters into a dollar bill when you have the chance...bc dollar bills are so hard to come by" So hypocritical.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    We're a top 5 team in the east next season. Book it!

    K Low
    DeRozan
    Gay
    Johnson
    Big V

    very very good lineup. Better than Brooklyn
    Naw. If DeRozan is turned into a Millsap and Bargnani into a good backup PG / C, then we're top 5.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    You know what ESPN is worth when they lump Lowry's deal in with Bargnani's and Field's as "cap-clogging". Lowry's deal is mint for the player he is.
    God forbid they criticize a couple of Max players coming off of the bench in Pau and Amar'e right?
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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