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Thread: Four players we should target

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Lebron James
    Chris Bosh
    Dwight Howard
    Chris Paul
    You forgot Brian Scalabrine
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #62
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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    why is Derrick Williams even a suggestion at this point?? I didn't want him when we didn't have gay and I don't want him now
    Gay is SF. DW is 4. It could work AB for DW.

  3. #63
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Opposing defences are going to be able to pack the paint against a line-up that features Demar and Gay as the two wingers. Once they do that, there wont be any space for either slasher to get to the rim. They will then settle for long two pointers, which are statistically speaking the worst shot in basketball. If either could develop a consistent outside shot (corner 3) then it would change the dynamic greatly. Factor in that Lowry is a drive and kick PG and you have 3 players that all want to attack the rim but without a legit deep threat to create that space.

    Bargnani might be the necessary evil for this line-up to work as he is the only Raptor that has proven he can hit open 3's. Ross may be that guy, but unless they move Gay to the 4 or Demar to the bench, Ross isn't going to impact that lineup no matter how well he shoots (since he'll be on the bench).

    You also said that Gay was a "shot creator", which is only true in an iso sense. He can create his own shot (something this team has lacked) and that may well help in close games but in general, he doesn't create shots for others unless the defence has to collapse on his drive, thus creating the open deep shot that we have no current starter capable of hitting consistently. The only way this works with both Demar and Gay starting on the wings is if Lowry turns into a perimeter jump shooter (thus limiting his natural talents and game) or Bargnani returns and shoots the lights out.

    The Raps need a legit shooter - Ross looks like the best of the bunch. Start Ross over Demar and let Demar be the 6th man microwave that he is likely best suited for. Otherwise, trading for a shooter makes sense (Wesley Mathews from Portland?).
    I believe you made an excellent point re AB. If somehow he can hit a higher percentage of 3's the offence can keep other teams off balance. That said, I think his teammates treat him like he is not even part of the team .....he is mutually indifferent to them as well.

  4. #64
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I am among those posters now calling for DeRozan to be traded, for several reasons:

    1. The skills that Gay & DeRozan bring to the table are redundant, with neither of them being excellent 3pt shooters or lock-down perimeter defenders. Ross already seems to fit better with Gay than DeRozan does, and he will only continue to improve. Even Fields provides better perimiter defense than DeRozan and doesn't need to get nearly as many shots as DeRozan would demand (Gay and Lowry are top 2 scoring options, and a legit starting PF would become #3, which would push DeRozan to 4th option on offense and playing off the ball is not a strength of his).

    2. This team needs a backup PG (which Bargnani can hopefully return in trade) and a starting PF (so Amir can be backup PF). DeRozan would seem a likely candidate (age, salary, skill, potential) to be traded for this starting PF - Millsap is just one option mentioned, since he's an expiring contract, Utah is loaded at C/PF positions and is desperately in need of wing help. You need to giveup talent to get talent, so I'd much prefer an equal young talent to DeRozan at the PF position (trade from a position of strength to address a position of weakness).
    Why not wait a few games and see how things play out before considering a DD trade.
    3. Way too much money tied-up in wings. Gay was acquired to be starting SF and cornerstone of the future. Ross is "untouchable", should become better than DeRozan (if he isn't already), fits better with Gay and is much cheaper than DeRozan. Fields is likely untradeable, due to his salary, down year and injury, plus he's a good glue guy and defender (good balance to a wing rotation of Gay & Ross). If Gay & Ross are the future starters, it makes no sense to pay a backup (DeRozan) $9.5M per season over the next 3 years, especially when it could be much more effectively used to pay a legit starting PF.
    We should wait 4-5 games and see how things play out, though, you may be right.

  5. #65
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    We should wait 4-5 games and see how things play out, though, you may be right.
    4-5 games is not enough sample time. See a guy like Wade & LeBron, you would think those 2 being great teammates, and great talent, and their style of play would be able to mesh right away. Did they? No. It took almost a year for Dwayne Wade to finally step back, and allow LeBron to be the guy.

    I'm not willing to trade Derozan until the end of the season.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Gotta say the amount of hate Demar gets around here and Raps players in general its no wonder some people dont want to play here sometimes. Seriously why is he getting so much focus on what he doesnt do as opposed to all the positive he does do?

    The Raps would be god awful without him and the games we do win its much in part to him give the poor guy a break, bashing a guy who tries and works hard for his team his fans and his own aspirations is a breath of fresh air, he worked hard for that extension and next season he will be even better. The Demar hate is unwarranted.

  7. #67
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    Three things to consider....
    1 - Bargnani needs to go
    2 - How can we add serviceable starting PF and backup PG?
    3 - How can we facilitate other trades in the process?

    With those things in mind, here are some options...
    1 - Facilitate Gasol to Minny - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=auywzc4
    To Minny - Gasol (from LAL) and Anderson (from TOR) - gives them Gasol (who Rubio wants) as new C and Anderson as SG off bench (with Brandon Roy out)
    To LAL - Bargnani (from TOR) and Barea (from Minny) - gives them fresh blood at PF (Bargs) to stretch floor for Dwight and upgrade at backup PG
    To TOR - Pekovic and DWIL (from Minny) and Blake (from LAL) - gives us temporary starting C to help ease JV in, new young stretch-4 to match pace that will be set with Lowry/Derozan/Gay and reliable backup PG that can start next time Lowry is hurt (inevitable

    2 - Facilitate Josh Smith to PHX (3 team version) - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ampakz2
    To Hawks - Bargs (from TOR) and Marshall (from PHX) - replacement PF to stretch floor for Horford and nice young piece to step in as backup PG
    To PHX - Josh Smith (from Hawks) - their prime target and cornerstone for the future
    To TOR - Gortat and Brown (from PHX) - stretch Gortat to starting 4 to bruise down low and take load off JV as he develops and solid backup PG/SG in Brown that perfectly matches uptempo pace

    3 - Facilitate Josh Smith to PHX (4-team version) - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=be4aync
    To ATL - Paul Millsap (from UTA) and Kleiza (from TOR) - replacement starting PF and backup SF or amnesty candidate to give $$ flexibility
    To PHX - Josh Smith (from ATL) - their prime target and cornerstone for the future
    To UTA - Bargnani (from TOR) and Beasley (from PHX) - new starting PF to stretch floor and better compliment Al Jefferson and new SF
    To TOR - Dragic (from PHX) and Favors (from UTA) - starting PF for the future to grow with young core and backup PG to push Lowry and fill spot starts as needed (albeit and expensive backup)

    Open to thoughts/feedback...

    Let's at least agree on priorities... bye-bye-Bargnani, new starting PF and backup PG...

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Why would you want to stir up trouble with Lowry? He and Dragic weren't necessarily close lets keep this ship a float moving steady and avoid any crippling ice burgs shall we?

    Last thing we need is another controversy and guess what Lowry unhappy will make Gay unhappy,

  9. #69
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    Quote zabs07 wrote: View Post
    Three things to consider....
    1 - Bargnani needs to go
    2 - How can we add serviceable starting PF and backup PG?
    3 - How can we facilitate other trades in the process?

    With those things in mind, here are some options...
    1 - Facilitate Gasol to Minny - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=auywzc4
    To Minny - Gasol (from LAL) and Anderson (from TOR) - gives them Gasol (who Rubio wants) as new C and Anderson as SG off bench (with Brandon Roy out)
    To LAL - Bargnani (from TOR) and Barea (from Minny) - gives them fresh blood at PF (Bargs) to stretch floor for Dwight and upgrade at backup PG
    To TOR - Pekovic and DWIL (from Minny) and Blake (from LAL) - gives us temporary starting C to help ease JV in, new young stretch-4 to match pace that will be set with Lowry/Derozan/Gay and reliable backup PG that can start next time Lowry is hurt (inevitable

    2 - Facilitate Josh Smith to PHX (3 team version) - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ampakz2
    To Hawks - Bargs (from TOR) and Marshall (from PHX) - replacement PF to stretch floor for Horford and nice young piece to step in as backup PG
    To PHX - Josh Smith (from Hawks) - their prime target and cornerstone for the future
    To TOR - Gortat and Brown (from PHX) - stretch Gortat to starting 4 to bruise down low and take load off JV as he develops and solid backup PG/SG in Brown that perfectly matches uptempo pace

    3 - Facilitate Josh Smith to PHX (4-team version) - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=be4aync
    To ATL - Paul Millsap (from UTA) and Kleiza (from TOR) - replacement starting PF and backup SF or amnesty candidate to give $$ flexibility
    To PHX - Josh Smith (from ATL) - their prime target and cornerstone for the future
    To UTA - Bargnani (from TOR) and Beasley (from PHX) - new starting PF to stretch floor and better compliment Al Jefferson and new SF
    To TOR - Dragic (from PHX) and Favors (from UTA) - starting PF for the future to grow with young core and backup PG to push Lowry and fill spot starts as needed (albeit and expensive backup)

    Open to thoughts/feedback...

    Let's at least agree on priorities... bye-bye-Bargnani, new starting PF and backup PG...


    Love them all. None are possible. Just because it's a three team trade, doesn't mean you can give away garbage and receive future all stars. I especially like the Favors one. Hahaha.

  10. #70
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    And what's your opinion on Delonte West??? He could be a good back up for Lowry, lots of experience too...

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote mtth wrote: View Post
    And what's your opinion on Delonte West??? He could be a good back up for Lowry, lots of experience too...
    As long as he can remain calm and keep his **** out of his teammates mothers why not?

  12. #72
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    I dont know why people keep suggesting that a back up PG is a priority. First, back up anything shouldnt be a priority in any trade or signing. 2nd, JL3, while not perfect, is totally serviceable in a back up role. The fact he can provide some offensive punch is interesting ... and in any event, the minutes should be 30-34 mpg lowry and 14-18 mpg lucas .. which is the way that a real starter / back up should share there minutes .. weve just been stuck in a sub-optimal situation for too long with two "starters" ..

  13. #73
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    I was playing on the espn trade machine with a three way trade. Toronto gets Derrick Williams, Pekovic. Minni get Pau Gasol. Lakers get bargs, Kleiza and barea. It's not perfect but everyone gets something they need. Probably too sweet for TO as you can argue they are upgrading and lowering salary. The lakers can probably find more value as well but if they are willing to take on contracts longer than to years but if so Fields could be included instead of Linus. The bigger question would the Raptors part with Amir? I doubt it.

  14. #74
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    Not a good environment for West n TO. He needs to be on a veteran team that won't be distracted if he causes problems. The risk reward just isn't there for Toronto.

  15. #75
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    I dont know why people keep suggesting that a back up PG is a priority. First, back up anything shouldnt be a priority in any trade or signing. 2nd, JL3, while not perfect, is totally serviceable in a back up role. The fact he can provide some offensive punch is interesting ... and in any event, the minutes should be 30-34 mpg lowry and 14-18 mpg lucas .. which is the way that a real starter / back up should share there minutes .. weve just been stuck in a sub-optimal situation for too long with two "starters" ..
    I like Lucas as a reserve who only gets time when the other players' shots aren't falling. depending on him night in and night out to play 15-20 minutes is way too much. he will gladly shoot 1 for 15 in that time. get him in, let him shoot and pull him if it isn't his night because he will shoot you right out of it.

    #ridnourplease

  16. #76
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    I agree. I'm really surprised Williams can't score the ball better and easier than he does. I figured worst case he would give opyou a hollow 16 and 8. i question whether he will ever find a position. he just doesnt shoot it well enough to be stretch 4 and lets be real that you want a lot more out of a 2nd pick than a shooting big off the bench COUGH Andrea COUGH. Another huge red flag is his stats are almost identical to his rookie numbers other than a small uptick in his 3FG%. Not saying i definitely wouldn't acquire him but it all comes down to price and I don't see him becoming a starter.

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