View Poll Results: Would you swap Ross for Davis in the Gay trade if possible?

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Thread: Everything Rudy Gay

  1. #341
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Rudy still has his player option after next year so that should be considered. Given that, a 4 for 50 deal becomes, from Gay's perspective anyways, a 3 for 30 deal.

    If he thinks he can get more than that come 2015 offseason (or in an extension from the Raps in the 2014 season) then he turns it down. I expect he would.

    That said there is alot of value in guaranteed money, but I think Rudy is young enough that he won't be expecting a career ending injury or an injury that would kill a lucrative contract.

    At the very least Rudy's player option gives him plenty of reason to take a risk and wait to see if he can get a better deal.

    I do think thats alot closer to fair value for him as a player though.
    I don't think he turns down the option. In fact the Raptors can't sign him to an extension should he opt out of the player option to anything starting less than the option year:

    Veteran extensions:

    Extensions to contracts that are not rookie scale contracts (i.e., veteran extensions) may be signed up to June 30, the day before the player would have become a free agent.

    A contract that contains an Early Termination Option (ETO) cannot be extended if the ETO is exercised (ending the contract early). A contract with an option can be extended if the player opts-in. A contract with an option can also be extended if the player opts-out, as long as the extension adds at least two new seasons onto the contract (excluding any new option year) and the salary in the first year of the extension is not less than the salary in the non-exercised option year. See question number 57 for more information on options and ETOs.

    A veteran extension can contain an option (player or team), but cannot contain an ETO.

    If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 97), his contract may not be extended for six months following the trade.

    Veteran extensions are limited to four seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract. Even if the extension is signed in late June, the current season counts as one full season toward the total. For example, a contract with two seasons remaining may be extended for up to two additional seasons. However, an extension signed in conjunction with an Extend-and-Trade transaction (see question number 92) is limited to three seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract.

    The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 107.5% of the player's previous salary4, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent -- see question numbers 16 and 17).

    Since the maximum salaries for an upcoming season are not known at the time the extension is signed, it is possible that the extension will specify a salary that is greater than the maximum salary. If this happens, the salaries in the extension are amended downward once the maximum salaries are defined.

    Raises in each year of a veteran extension are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first year of the extension5. If the salary in the first year of the extension is amended downward, the salaries in all subsequent season are amended as well. If the contract being extended contained bonuses, then the extension must contain the same bonuses -- teams can increase or decrease the bonus amounts by up to 7.5%, but they can't leave them off.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q57
    The most Gay could be extended this summer is 2 seasons. The $17 and $19M from current deal would be guaranteed. Would he take 2 years and $26M guaranteed? Would he he risk missing that money 2 years out with an injury? Would he want to wait until his current contract ends to get 4 years at 28 versus taking a 2 year extension this summer and looking for his likely final big money contract at 30?
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #342
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Great post, great insights. I would only add one thing:

    Does Gay turn down 4 years and $50M plus guaranteed?
    I was wrong here. See post 16.

    Damn CBA.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #343
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Gay made his presence felt as soon as we signed him and affirmed a positive outlook for next season has had a major influence on the core of talent that we already had.

    Right now Id say ya I want him extended lock Gay up, finally end the hunt for filling the SF spot to limited success season after season. For the right price though.

  4. #344
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    New Article from ESPN: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/90...et-prove-worth

    Interesting perspective from Gay about his last 2 years in Memphis and his outlook for Toronto. It certainly feels like he's a guy who would accept the challenge to be the leader of a young team ready to rise from the lottery and start thinking playoffs seriously.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Mar 7th, 2013 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #345
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think he turns down the option. In fact the Raptors can't sign him to an extension should he opt out of the player option to anything starting less than the option year:



    The most Gay could be extended this summer is 2 seasons. The $17 and $19M from current deal would be guaranteed. Would he take 2 years and $26M guaranteed? Would he he risk missing that money 2 years out with an injury? Would he want to wait until his current contract ends to get 4 years at 28 versus taking a 2 year extension this summer and looking for his likely final big money contract at 30?
    Thats for an ETO though. Are the rules the same for a player option?

    If for a second we assume they are, given the above, then the Raps can only be offering him, as you mention, a two year deal at just shy of max money.

    Would he rather that? I'm not sure. But I imagine the risk vs reward definetely points towards signing the extension at that point. (alot more money early and still plenty of time left in his career to sign another long term deal).

    But now we are talking about the Raptors that lose out unfortunately.

  6. #346
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Thats for an ETO though. Are the rules the same for a player option?

    If for a second we assume they are, given the above, then the Raps can only be offering him, as you mention, a two year deal at just shy of max money.

    Would he rather that? I'm not sure. But I imagine the risk vs reward definetely points towards signing the extension at that point. (alot more money early and still plenty of time left in his career to sign another long term deal).

    But now we are talking about the Raptors that lose out unfortunately.
    Doing a quick read, it seems that the rules mentioned (in regards to the ETO) don't apply to a player option. But I'm only saying this because I see nothing to indicated the rule applies to a player option (only ETO).

    Given the above, and that Gay has one year left (+ player option which doesn't technically count until the option is picked up), and assuming the extension would be offered this summer (ie. after June 30). The Raps could offer him a 3 year extension at any price below 107% of his current deal (above the minimum ofcourse).

  7. #347
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    You know what I'd like to see? More incentive based contracts. More players in the NBA are starting to get them. Like couldn't they do something like $11 mil a year and $4 mil bonus per year whenever Gay makes the all-star team?
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  8. #348
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    You know what I'd like to see? More incentive based contracts. More players in the NBA are starting to get them. Like couldn't they do something like $11 mil a year and $4 mil bonus per year whenever Gay makes the all-star team?
    That would be a fair deal, but I just don't see it happening when NBA contracts are already fully guaranteed. Why would a player give up guaranteed money for possible money? Plus things like All-star appearances are partially out of their hands. Fan voting, injuries, coaching are just some of the factors out of the players control that could cost them $$$.

  9. #349
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I think it's hard to answer the question "Has Rudy Gay earned an extension" right now, since we have no idea what that extension will look like (all assuming the rumor is true to begin with).
    Yeah, debating this is premature.

    The other issue is, "what does the rest of the team look like?". If it's Gay and what we have now, I will be less than enthused.

    One other thought. A lot of people gave Colangelo a pass and said he deserved more time cause he was forced to build around Bosh and Bosh wasn't a #1 guy and that's why it failed. Not because of Colangelo but because of Bosh. So, now, if Colangelo chooses to make his #1 option a guy who is objectively worse than Bosh, and the team fails, do we blame Gay or Colangelo? Also, if you are someone who thought building around Bosh was a bad idea, I assume you also think building around Gay is a bad idea.

  10. #350
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Doing a quick read, it seems that the rules mentioned (in regards to the ETO) don't apply to a player option. But I'm only saying this because I see nothing to indicated the rule applies to a player option (only ETO).

    Given the above, and that Gay has one year left (+ player option which doesn't technically count until the option is picked up), and assuming the extension would be offered this summer (ie. after June 30). The Raps could offer him a 3 year extension at any price below 107% of his current deal (above the minimum ofcourse).

    I interpreted the section to be referring to ETO when it says ETO and options when it says option. I don't know if I am correct here or not - just the way I interpreted the text. ETO is underlined, option is bold.

    A contract that contains an Early Termination Option (ETO) cannot be extended if the ETO is exercised (ending the contract early). A contract with an option can be extended if the player opts-in. A contract with an option can also be extended if the player opts-out, as long as the extension adds at least two new seasons onto the contract (excluding any new option year) and the salary in the first year of the extension is not less than the salary in the non-exercised option year. See question number 57 for more information on options and ETOs.
    Everything after the bold option is referring to the player option, not an ETO.... again, my interpretation.

    After July 1st, Gay could pick up the option for his final year and then sign a 2 year extension. If he does not pick up his option
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #351
    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Yeah, debating this is premature.

    The other issue is, "what does the rest of the team look like?". If it's Gay and what we have now, I will be less than enthused.

    One other thought. A lot of people gave Colangelo a pass and said he deserved more time cause he was forced to build around Bosh and Bosh wasn't a #1 guy and that's why it failed. Not because of Colangelo but because of Bosh. So, now, if Colangelo chooses to make his #1 option a guy who is objectively worse than Bosh, and the team fails, do we blame Gay or Colangelo? Also, if you are someone who thought building around Bosh was a bad idea, I assume you also think building around Gay is a bad idea.
    This sums it up pretty good. If the rest of the team is not GREAT - we wouldn accompish anything. And then who do we blame? I would balme the GM since he constructed the team badly.

  12. #352
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    PREDICTION: Rudy Gay and the Raptors won't agree to an extension this off-season UNLESS it's for max money.
    +1

    Colangelo has said numerous times that he needs to pay players more to come here.

    My feeling is he offers Rudy max money because he knows that the team needs to get to the playoffs to keep his job. Max money is something that Rudy could not pass up.

    No one should forget that BC does not want to build a championship calibre team. He would be extatic with a perennial 4 or 5 seed and happy with 6 or 7.

  13. #353
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Really depends. If the extension went for something like; $12 million, $14 million, $16 million, etc. I wouldn't be unhappy. In my humble opinion, the only problem with him being extended, is the previous extension of him being paid max money, based on potential.

    I would extend him, even if that means overpaying. But, clearly he isn't a max player right now.. I don't know lol

  14. #354
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    +1

    Colangelo has said numerous times that he needs to pay players more to come here.

    My feeling is he offers Rudy max money because he knows that the team needs to get to the playoffs to keep his job. Max money is something that Rudy could not pass up.

    No one should forget that BC does not want to build a championship calibre team. He would be extatic with a perennial 4 or 5 seed and happy with 6 or 7.
    The difference between a 4 and 5 seed and a championship contender is a superstar, I'm sure if BC had access to one of those he'd be more than happy to pick him up.

    I wish people would quit speculating people's intentions and spewing it as fact.

  15. #355
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    1) Someone higher up in the ORG has a RAGING Gay erection,

    ERmmm...


    Anyways, anybody here thinking we shouldn't offer Gay an extension, max or not, is out of their tree. Do you guys remember the only other 2 times we had division titles? We had an all star leading the way. We need to lock Gay up for another 5 years, so IF Valanciunas turns into an all star, IF Lowry turns into a top 10 pg, and IF we add another piece, we're looking at a top 5 team in the league in my opinion.

  16. #356
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    ERmmm...


    Anyways, anybody here thinking we shouldn't offer Gay an extension, max or not, is out of their tree. Do you guys remember the only other 2 times we had division titles? We had an all star leading the way. We need to lock Gay up for another 5 years, so IF Valanciunas turns into an all star, IF Lowry turns into a top 10 pg, and IF we add another piece, we're looking at a top 5 team in the league in my opinion.
    I can't help but view it the exact opposite way. Gay has been here for a month, even thinking of offering him an extension at this point (especially when all next season and likely the next, assuming Gay picks up his option, is available to wait) is ridiculously premature.

  17. #357
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I can't help but view it the exact opposite way. Gay has been here for a month, even thinking of offering him an extension at this point (especially when all next season and likely the next, assuming Gay picks up his option, is available to wait) is ridiculously premature.
    I would agree with you, but can think of at least 2 reasons just off the top of my head why it could be justified:

    1. Given the struggles Gay has been having and all the negative hype around him and his bloated contract, maybe there's a window of opportunity available that BC is taking advantage of to sign him for a discounted amount. This probably gives BC too much credit and a max contract would blow this point to bits.

    2. Extending Gay might be key to being able to keep Lowry. Or it might represent the franchise's renewed stability and competitiveness to lure free agents, be it MLE free agents or a bigger fish in a S&T. Extending DeRozan, Gay and potentially Lowry, combined with the young talent (Valanciunas & Ross), might make a huge difference in the attractiveness of Toronto as a destination, especially with the team being a much more talented and up-and-coming franchise with all those good young players (27 and under) locked-up. Who knows, maybe extending Gay now is the difference maker in landing a guy like Millsap in the offseason (which would need to be a S&T). Only time will tell the validity of this point.

  18. #358
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I would agree with you, but can think of at least 2 reasons just off the top of my head why it could be justified:

    1. Given the struggles Gay has been having and all the negative hype around him and his bloated contract, maybe there's a window of opportunity available that BC is taking advantage of to sign him for a discounted amount. This probably gives BC too much credit and a max contract would blow this point to bits.

    2. Extending Gay might be key to being able to keep Lowry. Or it might represent the franchise's renewed stability and competitiveness to lure free agents, be it MLE free agents or a bigger fish in a S&T. Extending DeRozan, Gay and potentially Lowry, combined with the young talent (Valanciunas & Ross), might make a huge difference in the attractiveness of Toronto as a destination, especially with the team being a much more talented and up-and-coming franchise with all those good young players (27 and under) locked-up. Who knows, maybe extending Gay now is the difference maker in landing a guy like Millsap in the offseason (which would need to be a S&T). Only time will tell the validity of this point.
    I was thinking along the same lines on point #2. I can't help but get the feeling that management sees Gay and Lowry as attached at the hip.

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #359
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    Quote SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
    The difference between a 4 and 5 seed and a championship contender is a superstar, I'm sure if BC had access to one of those he'd be more than happy to pick him up.

    I wish people would quit speculating people's intentions and spewing it as fact.
    Are these different types of "facts" than what you felt I wrote?

    Or maybe I'll just credit you with making a strongly worded statement about the subject to invite debate....

    I don't agree with your first point about a 4th or 5th seed vs. a contender. I agree that if you put Lebron or Durant on any team then you are basically a contender, let alone a 4th or 5th seed. But those are two of the only guys that make you a contender and they are once in a decade type players.

    My whole point is that BC (who again has said numerous times in the media) says that he needs to overpay players to play here. If other "more attractive" cities can offer max money to guys like Lebron and he cannot win in a bidding war, then he will be forced to offer max money to non-superstars to get them to play here.

    Here is the trend for you:

    Hedo, JO, Nash (even though he lost that bidding war), Kapono, Matt Barnes (offered more money than he had), Fields (you can even tack that onto the Nash offer)..the list goes on

    And I believe, based on the past signings, that this will happen again.

  20. #360
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I was thinking along the same lines on point #2. I can't help but get the feeling that management sees Gay and Lowry as attached at the hip.

    haha love the pic! lol such a stupid/funny movie!


    Seriously though, I know people are concerned about overpaying Gay - rightfully so - but I wonder what the opportunity cost is worth to BC and the Raptors organization, as a preventative step to avoid having Lowry and Gay both walk away from the franchise as free agents? Not only would the Raps lose both players, Lowry after next season and Gay after the following season, but it would have cost them Calderon, Davis, Forbes, 1st round pick and 2nd round pick. That's a huge price to pay just to have the franchise devestated by yet another big name player(s).

    So the question becomes: What is avoiding that franchise humiliation and keeping a good young core together worth, and is it more/less than the [potential] overpayment of Rudy Gay?

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