Of the list of players you mentioned, I believe that Lebron, Melo, Joe Johnson, Durant and Pierce are better. While the first four named justifiably make max money, Pierce understandably doesn't because of his age. Igoudala, Deng, Granger and Batum are arguably equally good only Gay is a much better clutch player. He comes good when it matters.
All said, I think Raps. should explore trade options before signing him to an extension.
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Even if the team declines the team option on Lucas and uses the amnesty on Kleiza, the team's no further ahead. Hell, even if Kleiza retires and the amnesty is used on Bargnani, the team still can't sign any free agents aside from using exceptions!
looks like rudy has me against the world written on the inside of his arms.
pretty much sums up the way he plays..
All the talk last season was that once the tax kicks in uder the new CBA there would be teams looking to unload talent to avoid the luxury tax and that teams with cap space will be in a good position to scoop those players up. Well that is just what happened with Memphis whom were one of the top teams everyone said would be looking to unload talent to avoid the tax.
It's getting supremely annoying that everyone is bitching about this teams lack of flexibility to sign an elite player other than Rudy Gay, like the opportunity to do so comes along everyday.
The crucial thing for teams that are going to be around the tax or over will be maintaining a nuclear option... being able to blow things up if they go all screwy. For the Raptors, this blowup option is in 2015, when Gay, Bargnani, Johnson, and Fields all expire. Right now, DeRozan, Valanciunas, Ross, and Acy are the only players who go beyond this, and they add up to just over $20 million in 15/16 (team options on all three rookies). If the Raptors retain Gay and Lowry for around $30 million for the pair, that's just over $50 million committed at that point (plus likely at least two more rookies from 2014 and 2015 drafts). If the Raptors don't make any other long-term commitments, then I think they're in solid shape at that point. If you've got a contender, great, you keep that group together. If not (which is much more likely), you can let Bargnani, Johnson and Fields expire or trade them, you free up enough cap space that you can actually make a big move (by 2015, $50 million might be as much as $15 million under the cap), and add an impact player to a roster that is still very young and in its prime (all guys 28 or younger), and with every key guy on that roster signed for at least through to the end of 2016/17.
Now, if you can convince Lowry and Gay that they're part of something special and that they should take a bit less than market value to stay, then every dollar saved is going to increase the effectiveness of that blow-up, even if it doesn't help their short-term flexibility. If we could, say, get Lowry for $10m and Gay for $16m, then you might be close to $20m in cap space.
Is 2015 a good year to do a blow-up? Well, our biggest priority is likely going to be another big-man, and that offseason could potentially have M. Gasol, Hibbert, both Lopezes, Asik, Perkins, Chandler, Jordan, Love, Aldridge, Bosh, Stoudemire, Randolf, Scola, Boozer, and a lot of lesser players, depending on how player options break down. Plus a lot of star players at other positions, who will draw a lot of attention. In other words, a good year to be looking for a key piece. That offseason also marks a potiential shift in the balance of power in the east, since it could mark the end (or the beginning of the end) of the Knicks and Heat superstar combos. Both the Knicks and Heat are going to be well into the repeater rate if they try to keep their current cores together.
I'm still in favour of trading Bargnani when a decent offer comes up, however I'm pessimistic that this happens. A best-case trade keeps our nuclear option intact. A Boozer trade would be perfect, since it expires in 2015 too, but would allow us to play better in the interim.
So I don't think extending Gay necessarily kills the team's long-term flexibility, like some others have said. Short-term, yeah, we've got no flexibility regardless of whether we extend Gay now. I'm okay with the current core sticking together for a couple years, being a middle of the pack playoff team, and hopefully establishing a reputation that they can build on to attract another key piece in 2015.
I was speaking more about from now moving forward, illustrating how Gay's extension wouldn't even have a negative impact on flexibility, because the team's flexibility is being hindered by several big contracts.
After thinking for a day or two, I think any attempt to sign Gay is premature this summer.
The topic could surely be broached but it would seem, at least to me, the Raptors would be better off waiting to see how next year plays out.
Not to turn this in to Bargnani time (yet again) but the Raps need to see what they have without him and what he might bring.
Also the Raps need to see if Gay can elevate his game and fit in Toronto (from a basketball sense) leading to a competitive franchise. He certainly has immense talent but as we know talent doesn't fill the win column alone (although it is probably the most important thing with desire coming a close 2nd).
I don't think there is any risk of Gay turning down his $19M option. He will be just turning 29 when his player option is up. He will be able to secure at least one more meaningful/significant contract in his career at that time.
The most the Raptors can extend him for this year is 2 seasons. Basically, unless the Raps are going to pay him Joe Johnson money (which we can't rule out because Colangelo is offering the contract - Jesus, Mary, and Joseph *sigh*), adding 2 years now does little for either party (Gay or Toronto).
Wait until next summer and if things work out as we hope, add another 3 years at that time. Or wait until the player option is up (summer 2015) and add 4 years at that time. But adding 2 years this summer is not in anyone's best interests.
If Gay decides to opt out after next year it means it was a failure of a season and the Raptors are getting a lottery pick anyways (assumption being OKC gets the pick this season). If next year is a failure that is not going to look good on him and he won't get anywhere near max - let alone $19M for 2014-15.
My hope: Bargnani turns in to Boozer and another asset. Raps make playoffs and maybe even 2nd round. Gay signs reasonable extension (basically anything less than max). 2014-15 Boozer is a big expiring $16M contract and can return talent via trade at the deadline in a day of super luxury tax facing a crappy team with an unhappy, expensive star.
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
I also believe we agree on a lot, but I would like to point out a few things...
I guess the main disagreement is that I don't think anyone else is going to offer him max money, if nobody else is, then there's no incentive for us to. Maybe i'm wrong though.
The funny thing is, that this 4 page thread is all because of one article sighting an "inside source" for all we know it's BS. Not blaming the guy who started the thread (because it was me), but I never thought it would get this much play. The fact that many of us think an extension right now is not a good idea, but simultaneously think that Coangelo would entertain the idea speaks volumes about our confidence in our GM's ability to negotiate contracts, whether or not their is any truth to the rumour.
But yeah, offering rudy 22+ million per season is crazy, Bryan Coangelo crazy.
EDIT: I would also like to say it's not about financial flexibility, it's about only willing to overspend sooo much on a player. Amir Johnson's contract, no problem, Jose's contract, no problem, even barg's contract not a huge deal, your only overspending at most 1-2 mill per year, and in the case of Johnson he's worth it. But paying Rudy 22+mil, that's over paying by like 10 mil. I guess it's arbitary, but if you HAVE to pay a guy 5 million more than he's worth, what the f*^k are you doing wrong?
I don't think Rudy will extend for anything less than max RIGHT NOW but I do think he may sign for less in a year or two, doesn't necessarily have to go all the way to FA, just not a max contract this summer.
Last edited by ezz_bee; Fri Mar 8th, 2013 at 03:25 PM.
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"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
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I agree that there's no reason to rush this, however it would be worth seeing if there's a window right now for a 'buy-low' scenario; Gay excited about being in Toronto, sick of being judged against a ridiculous contract, wanting to be seen as part of a winner rather than a guy you can't build a winner around. If we're talking about a max or near max extension (or even anything that's 100% of his option year), then there's absolutely zero reason to move on it now.
Its too early for an extension.
Second, not sure what Gay is worth. But all i know is, he's going to breakout next season. He's going to be the #1 option on offence. He'll average 20+ppg for sure. He's also going to get his rebounds and steals and assists. And the Raps for sure will be in the playoffs.
Re-signing Gay this summer i think is a wise idea because what he's worth right now whatever that is would probably double after next season.
Last edited by TRex; Fri Mar 8th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
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