View Poll Results: Would you swap Ross for Davis in the Gay trade if possible?

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Thread: Everything Rudy Gay

  1. #421
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    If Colangelo's already come out and said that "he's the franchise guy", why wouldn't he be offered an extension this summer? If he really is the franchise centerpiece, Colangelo won't take a chance on letting next year play out, and letting Rudy leave if he isn't satisfied with the team's direction.
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  2. #422
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Default Interview with young Gay

    Interview: Rudy Gay
    June 4, 2006
    How are you feeling after the workout? Tired? Was this anything special for you in terms of how hard you guys went today?

    Rudy Gay: Nah. Usually we go harder or the same as this every day. Iím not really tired, Iím used to it.

    Jonathan Givony: How long have you been working here for?

    Rudy Gay: Three weeks.


    Jonathan Givony: Any specific things youíve been working on in anticipation of workouts or the NBA season?

    Rudy Gay: Well Idan [Ravin] works with us on ball-handling and stuff like that, and I feel itís gotten a lot better. Shooting off the dribble, and just refining all of my skills.

    Jonathan Givony: It seems like Idan is definitely trying to push and motive you. How do you think his style of coaching compares with Coach Calhoun?

    Rudy Gay: I think itís totally different. Coach (Calhoun) is the type that will push to get the extra stuff out of you, but Idan expects it out of you because he knows how you play, he knows what you can do. So itís kind of nice playing him because he expects a lot out of you. You want to do a lot for him.

    Jonathan Givony: Itís probably a lot easier for him because you came to him to train, and youíve got a couple of big weeks ahead of you in terms of workouts and stuff like that. What are the challenges of a guy like Calhoun with such a talented team trying to get playing time for everybody? Was that a tough situation at UConn this year?

    Rudy Gay: For him Iím sure it was, because I donít think there was another team ever that had as much talent as we did. Itís hard to put different players in different positions without getting people mad. Knowing that each person can do certain things, but then again our team is so deep that they canít do it all at certain times. It had to be hard for him but I think he handled it pretty well.

    Jonathan Givony: So what do you think you guys were missing to make that next step? Just bad luck?

    Rudy Gay: I think we just lived on the edge too much. We got too complacent; I think we needed to play a little bit harder in certain stretches of the game.

    Jonathan Givony: Is there anything you feel youíve improved on since being here?

    Rudy Gay: Oh everything. Like I said, Idan Ravin expects you to do so much more so you get better at it. Iíve gotten better at everything.

    Jonathan Givony: Is it nice to be close to home?

    Rudy Gay: Honestly I havenít been home once since Iíve been here. My family will be there. My family knows that Iím trying to make a big decision, and make a big step for my family and also myself. So Iím not really too worried about going home and stuff like that right now. Itís just all about business.

    Jonathan Givony: When are you going to start doing your workouts?

    Rudy Gay: Iím not really sure. I think maybe a couple before Orlando and a couple after.

    Jonathan Givony: How much are you looking forward to the workouts? Have you talked to people about them, do you know what to expect?

    Rudy Gay: Yeah Iím ready. I think Idanís got me ready. Heís done a lot to get me prepared for this. Iím just ready to get to it and start doing my thing.

    Jonathan Givony: Youíve probably seen a lot of college basketball this year. Anyone in particular that you would like to go up against in workouts that you think you would match up well with?

    Rudy Gay: Anybody. I donít really care; Iím just ready to go out there. Anybody thatís willing to strap up against me, Iím willing to play my hardest against. Right now it really doesnít matter weather itís Tyrus Thomas, Adam Morrison, anybody. Iíll play with any of them.

    Jonathan Givony: What about a rematch with Brandon Roy? You guys had some bad blood in the NCAA tournament game and it seems like your kind of gearing up for the same spot in the draft. Is that something you would look forward to?

    Rudy Gay: I wouldnít mind it at all. I wouldnít mind it. But it depends on how the ball drops. Whatever somebody needs and if they want to test me against him, Iíd be ready for it.

    Jonathan Givony: Do you think you still have a chance go #1?

    Rudy Gay: Yeah thatís what we working for. I set my goals high, and Idan told me once we started that I can still go #1, and Iím still shooting for number one. I feel as though my talent can take me to number one. I think if I work hard enough I could be number one, so what not?

    Jonathan Givony: So thatís something thatís important to you?

    Rudy Gay: Yeah definitely. Iím going to work as hard as I can to get there.

    Jonathan Givony: Youíre not afraid of the pressure? Number one pick, thatís just an incredible amount of pressure and it seems like no matter what you do you cant please everybody, so would that really matter at the end of the day?

    Rudy Gay: (laughs) No Iím used to it. Iím used to the pressure. Just being number one makes me want to work hard.

    Jonathan Givony: Preseason All-American, Wooden Award and all thatÖdid you think that was maybe a little premature? Did you like that pressure that people put on you or do you think people expected a little too much out of you too soon?

    Rudy Gay: Really when I made that, it just went out one ear and out the other. I didnít even worry about all the pre-season things. The post season means the most to me because we didnít win the championship, and I think there was a lot of things I could have accomplished that I didnít. Also, I think thereís a lot for me in the future to accomplish, so really Iím just looking to the future.

    Jonathan Givony: Do you still keep in touch with all the guys from UConn like Josh Boone and Rashad Anderson and those guys?

    Rudy Gay: I keep in touch with all of them. I just try to make sure that they doing what they need to be doing to get to the next step and also see how they doing in their workouts.

    Jonathan Givony: Some guys put restrictions on workouts. Like Gerald Green said Iím not going to workout against anybody. I know itís up to your agent at the end of the day, but do you personally have any problem with going head to head with guys like Morrison, Thomas, Roy, and Aldridge?

    Rudy Gay: I have no problem with it, because obviously if people donít want to go up against anybody they obviously have things that they need to work on or things that they felt hey could have been doing that they havenít been. I have no weaknesses in my game, Iím ready for anybody.

    Charlie Bury: Tell me about the Baltimore game, I know a lot of players come out of Baltimore. (Steve Novak in the background ďThere are no players from Baltimore manĒ

    Rudy Gay: I think the thing about Baltimore is its tough. Everybody wants to be this and that but not a lot of people put the work in. Anybody that puts the work in you see in the NBA; like Sam Cassell, Melo, Juan Dixon, people like that.

    Charlie Bury: Do some of the UConn guys in the league now give you advice about his whole process and what to expect?

    Rudy Gay: Yeah I talk to a couple guys like Rip Hamilton, Caron Butler. Theyíve helped me through the process and given me some tips.

    Charlie Bury: What do you hope to show teams when you workout for them that they didnít see from your time at UConn?

    Rudy Gay: That I can be more assertive. I think at UConn I played a little more lax, and playing lax wonít get you money in the NBA.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2N0Cymf6r
    http://www.draftexpress.com
    Seem like Rudy wanted to be in Toronto or he just wanted that #1 spot. I like how he wanted the pressure.
    @Chr1st1anL

  3. #423
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    So do you guys finally see why I think people should have been complaining about Gays terrible shooting % and shot selection?

  4. #424

    Default Rudy Gay #25 on worst contracts list

    25. Rudy Gay: three years, $53.7 million
    Most fans love the idea of Rudy: 6-foot-8, defends either forward spot, good athlete, unafraid at crunch time, seems like he's good. Nobody wants to accept that he's a horrific shooter ó repeat: horrific ó who excels at posting up smaller defenders, and that's about it. Math doesn't lie: According to Hoopdata.com, Gay is shooting 25 percent on shots from 16 to 23 feet (the worst percentage of anyone who attempted three-plus shots per game from that range) and 23.3 percent from 3 (the worst percentage of anyone who attempted three-plus 3s per game). In other words, Gay attempts nearly 10 shots per game from more than 15 feet and makes two of them. I stand by "horrific."

    Now, there's an excellent chance that (a) Gay needed a change of scenery, (b) Z-Bo and Marc Gasol clogged the paint and made it more difficult for him to drive to the hoop (there's some truth to that), (c) he's better off playing the 4 and exploiting quickness mismatches there (ŗ la Carmelo) and (d) this trade could still work out for Toronto if Gay ever stops throwing up bricks. But reading Marc Spears's report that Toronto wants to lock up Gay TO AN EXTENSION this summer Ö I mean Ö what???? Why not use these last six weeks to make sure he's still competent offensively before broaching that strategy publicly? What's wrong with these teams?
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-contracts-nba

    The shooting stats speak for themselves and they are completely unacceptable. How the fuck are we offering him a contract extension?

  5. #425
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    He's not 25 on the worst contract list.

  6. #426
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    This franchise and some of the member of its fan base sound like a desperate girl or boy that will do ANYTHING to keep ANY relationship going. It's dripping with desperation. I mean, signing Fields, Derozan, trading for Gay - DESPERATION moves it seems.
    ďThe saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.Ē - Martin Luther King

  7. #427
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Question, when was the last time the Raptors had a wing player like Gay? i would have to say Vince Carter, and the last time he played here was 9 years ago so that answers your question.

    First bold, Agree we haven't had a wing with this much potential since VC.

    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Second, not sure what Gay is worth. But all i know is, he's going to breakout next season. He's going to be the #1 option on offence. He'll average 20+ppg for sure. He's also going to get his rebounds and steals and assists. And the Raps for sure will be in the playoffs.

    Re-signing Gay this summer i think is a wise idea because what he's worth right now whatever that is would probably double after next season.
    I think Rudy and his agent probably think the same thing, which is why they won't sign anything other than a max contract. Maybe I'm wrong and Coanagelo is able to take advantage of his stock being low right now. BUT if I'm Gay I wouldn't sign anything that wasn't a max contract.



    Another thing also in reference to the 2nd bold, he's already a max player, so he CAN'T make any more money. It's great if he doubles his value, but to be honest for him to "double his value" he'll have to be in MVP consideration, which isn't going to happen. I'm not trying to rag on Gay, I like him and glad we have him, but the only way he opts out after next season is he feels confident that someone is going to pay him at least 19 mil. Other than Dallas, I can't think of any time that is looking to offer that kind of money to Gay.

    Also, if he opts out is he a restricted free agent or unrestricted? It doesn't matter too much to me but if by opting out he's a restricted free agent, then the raps have the opportunity to match.


    .


    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    If Colangelo's already come out and said that "he's the franchise guy", why wouldn't he be offered an extension this summer? If he really is the franchise centerpiece, Colangelo won't take a chance on letting next year play out, and letting Rudy leave if he isn't satisfied with the team's direction.
    So it's better to lock him in at 22 mil a year, and if he doesn't like the direction of the team, which probably means it's not going to be competitive/a contender with the current line up, we've got lots of contracts that are hard to move, meaning we're stuck with a non-franchise player, getting paid max money on a team that isn't going anywhere.

    I'm not sure if everyone knows this, but Toronto can offer him more money than anywhere else. Unless a sign and trade is concocted he's going to be making less money in any uniform, that isn't a Raps uniform.


    My feeling is that the only way gay signs this offseason is for max money.

    By waiting until the season is under way next year, or offseason next year, there's a chance (and I would put that chance at or above 90%) the sign gay, and that it's for less money (50/50) to me the 90% chance of extending him later, combined with the 50/50 of it NOT being for max money, is WELL worth the very small risk (10% or less) that by waiting we somehow piss Gay off so he wants to bolt for less money (which may not even be possible if he's RFA if he opts out).

    Anyway, it seems like we disagree, you could be right and by not offering a max extension somehow we lose Gay, which I agree would set us back (unless we do a S&T). My feeling is though, is that if you can manage to get Gay or less than max or have more money to play lowry and other pieces, which will contribute to us being competitive/contenders, which will change our perception of being a losing team to being a winning one, which will attract quality players. By inking Gay to max money, even if we change our perception to that of winners it's hard to resign the players other than Gay who contribute, what are we going to be able to offer Jonas with so much money tied up in Gay? Without being able to resign our talent, we revert back to mediocrity, gay is unhappy and demands out, and then were back to square one without having raised the profile of the organisation.

    A contract in today's NBA for over 20 million has to be for an legit MVP candidate otherwise it hampers he franchise more than it helps.

    The raps don't need to offer Gay max money to keep him. I just don't buy it.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  8. #428
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    ya...and who are the 24 in front of him?

    He's not even top 20 and he's getting paid max...I'm not saying it'sgood,but, it'snot bad.
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  9. #429
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    This franchise and some of the member of its fan base sound like a desperate girl or boy that will do ANYTHING to keep ANY relationship going. It's dripping with desperation. I mean, signing Fields, Derozan, trading for Gay - DESPERATION moves it seems.
    It seems. It's not as it seems. A solid front court addition and Raptors are pretty close to being quite a threat. Of course IMO.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  10. #430
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    I also believe we agree on a lot, but I would like to point out a few things...



    Why can't they wait until mid season to extend him? Or next off-season? Or the year after that? I never meant to imply that they HAD to wait until he was a free agent to sign him, so I'll apologize if I gave that impression. I just don't think you need to extend him this off season, It's not like he's going anywhere.




    I don't think the Bosh comparison plays as the raps were always willing and wanting to extend him, but Bosh was clear that HE wanted to wait for FA. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your comparison?




    The funny thing is I'd like to keep him. Just not at 22 million, or even 19 million. Maybe I'm calculating his salary incorrectly, if someone knows how that works, maybe you can enlighten the rest of us.

    I guess the main disagreement is that I don't think anyone else is going to offer him max money, if nobody else is, then there's no incentive for us to. Maybe i'm wrong though.


    I like the Gay trade, and I'm happy to extend him at some point, but I think NOW is the wrong time to do it. Basically he hasn't proved he deserves max money, but I don't think he'll sign for less. Why not let him play a season or so, and when your closer to FA there's less uncertainty about his value in the league. The fact that we got him for Ed Davis speaks to the interest level of other teams IMO.
    I agree that there is no point in extending him right now. There's still time.

    The Bosh comparison means that unlike what they did with Bosh, Raps. wouldn't want to wait 'til the last minute only to end up with almost nothing. In hind sight, they realise that they should have traded him when they could thereby acquiring some valuable assets.

    I too think he's not worth max money but such is the nature of the game today that he will command max money. That will be the case even if he's a FA IMO.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  11. #431
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    Consider this....

    After Bargs & Lowry went down earlier in the season (i.e. after the Brooklyn game) and BC read Casey and the boys the riot act, the Raps went 12-11, up until the arrival of Gay. After Gay, the Raps are 8-9.

    Also consider Memphis. After the initial shock of the trade, the Grizz are now 12-1 in their last 13. Second hottest team in the NBA.

    On the surface, it seems like Gay hasn't had much impact on the Raps, and Memphis is better off without him. Small sample size, but that's what the stats geeks who follow Hollinger were saying would happen.

    A max player should have a significant and noticeable positive impact to the team's winning percentage. Not sure if we've seen that yet.
    Last edited by golden; Sun Mar 10th, 2013 at 12:30 AM.

  12. #432
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    Not really sure what you mean by this. Reuben mentioned that it depends what you mean by 'bad shot', and I think I agree:

    In one sense, there's nothing inherently bad about taking a shot early in the shot clock; in fact, what 'time' you shoot at says nothing, on its own, about the quality of the shot (in terms of how open you are, how close you are to the bucket, how good of a shooter you are etc.).

    It's true that in this same sense, a closely guarded long two is a bad shot no matter when it's taken.

    When you talk about the "horrid shot selection of players who shoot early in the clock" I think you're confusing two senses of 'bad shot'. Goldman says that shots taken earlier in the shot clock tend actually to be better shots than those taken late in the shot clock. He's not saying that the earlier you shoot the better your shot will be, but rather the longer you hold on to the ball, the lower your expected point output is.

    So yes, in a way, a bad shot is a bad shot -- but that's not really the point. The point is that when Rudy fires a contested two with 10 on the shot-clock, we get pissed at him and we really shouldn't be. The value of that shot is actually higher than the value of him kicking it back out and continuing the possession.

    Counter-intuitive, perhaps, but that's the whole point of analytics -- if they didn't tell us things we couldn't see with our own eyes, they'd be pretty redundant.
    I mean that the perceived positives from the early shot clock rushed shot or How they aren't as harmful to a team as a late clock rushed shot isn't actually the case.

    of course they won't look so bad when they are weighted with all the good shots taken during the early stages of a shot clock that come from playing within the offense.

    most end of clock shots are rushed because coaches aren't going to waste timeouts to run a play. when a bad shit is taken doesn't make it better. I doubt Casey is calling for "wild 3 early in the clock" ever. if he is I need to stop supporting him.

    I admire Rudy's passion and confidence in himself but stats to say bad shots are actually good shots don't fly with me.

  13. #433
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Consider this....

    After Bargs & Lowry went down earlier in the season (i.e. after the Brooklyn game) and BC read Casey and the boys the riot act, the Raps went 12-11, up until the arrival of Gay. After Gay, the Raps are 8-9.

    Also consider Memphis. After the initial shock of the trade, the Grizz are now 12-1 in their last 13. Second hottest team in the NBA.

    On the surface, it seems like Gay hasn't had much impact on the Raps, and Memphis is better off without him. Small sample size, but that's what the stats geeks who follow Hollinger were saying would happen.

    A max player should have a significant and noticeable positive impact to the team's winning percentage. Not sure if we've seen that yet.
    All true.

    Strength of schedule is being ignored though.

    Grizz have had a very lax schedule and they are 2-3 versus playoff teams in that stretch.
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  14. #434
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    Default Retooling the Rudy Gay trade

    If it was possible, would you go back in time and trade Terrence Ross with Calderon in the place of Ed Davis?
    I think I would, to be honest. I think Ross will be a solid bench guard at best, and Davis I would imagine would be a good energy big off the bench who is an above average rebounder. As well, I don't think he'll command the money that a high flying scorer like Ross would ask for, despite Ross not even being that good.
    Finally, Davis plays a position and a role I think is more valuable now and in the long run.

    What do you guys think? Are you all high on Ross or perhaps BC made a mistake?

  15. #435
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    Quote colef5 wrote: View Post
    If it was possible, would you go back in time and trade Terrence Ross with Calderon in the place of Ed Davis?
    I think I would, to be honest. I think Ross will be a solid bench guard at best, and Davis I would imagine would be a good energy big off the bench who is an above average rebounder. As well, I don't think he'll command the money that a high flying scorer like Ross would ask for, despite Ross not even being that good.
    Finally, Davis plays a position and a role I think is more valuable now and in the long run.

    What do you guys think? Are you all high on Ross or perhaps BC made a mistake?
    Good question.

    I would keep it as is - for now.

    I think a final answer depends on what is done in the offseason with Bargnani and any additions to PF.
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  16. #436
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    I think Ed Davis' ceiling is lower than Ross', however I will say that if they had traded Ross, at the very least there would be a higher chance Colangelo takes *anything* for Bargnani.

    With us thin at PF (starting material), it means Colangelo might be a lot pickier when trading Bargs, with potential of him not trading him at all.
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    I voted no. The NBA is a small man's game now, versatility is what counts. Ross can shoot threes, athletic enough to be a good defender, decent rebounder and penetrate the lane. He can score on the perimeter or take his man off the dribble. With Ed, the most you can get is a perimeter shot, post up, rebounding and interior D. But it still entirely depends on what the team needs, and having Amir made Ed a bit more dispensible than Ross.

  18. #438
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    Keep as is. IMO, Davis's ceiling is Amir Johnson (who Amir himself is a backup player).

    We have to remember that Davis was literally worth nothing at the start of the season. We traded while his value was high (one of Colangelo's rare smart decisions).

    I'll take the high potential in Ross, over the limited ceiling in Davis.
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    I believe Amir Johnson is similar and better than Ed Davis and thus losing Ed was not a big loss to me. Ed Davis is a very good rebounder and shot blocker but he is also no more than a 4th offensive option and a defender who has difficulty defending bigger players.

    I am not sold on Terrence Ross but he has a chance to develop into a good 3 point shooter, something the Raptors sorely needs.

    I think the Raptors made the right choice by trading Ed and not Terrence.

  20. #440
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Keep as is. IMO, Davis's ceiling is Amir Johnson (who Amir himself is a backup player).

    We have to remember that Davis was literally worth nothing at the start of the season. We traded while his value was high (one of Colangelo's rare smart decisions).

    I'll take the high potential in Ross, over the limited ceiling in Davis.
    Have to disagree with this. Davis is about 10 - 15 pounds away from being a beast. Davis already has more tools than Amir, though Amir has the toughness and experience Ed lacks. At this point Ed is already a better rebounder, but in a few off seasons of hitting the gym and working on his game he will have surpassed Amir.

    I like Ross' potential as well, but from the beginning I was in the opinion that drafting him made no sense with DD on the roster. When they gave DeMar his extension off the top of the season, drafting Ross made even less sense. Now with Gay here, Ross is just going to get buried on the bench. Good player, but dumb pick. He needs to put a tonne of work into his game to be the first wing off the bench, but jeez louise you're then paying Fields all that coin to do what? And like it or not Anderson is the best wing off our bench right now. Hindsight is a bitch, but imagine if we had traded our pick to Houston for say Scola or drafted Drummond.

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