View Poll Results: Would you swap Ross for Davis in the Gay trade if possible?

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Thread: Everything Rudy Gay

  1. #841
    Raptors Republic All-Star consmap's Avatar
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    Every time I see Rudy get a defensive rebound and dribble the ball up the court, I get an insane urge to laugh. Just because I know that something bad is going to happen. It's like watching Jackass.

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  3. #842
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If you're looking to trade Rudy, like I hope Masai is, then the coach doesn't call him out.... not publicly anyways.
    I think this is overstated. Everyone -- I mean, everyone -- in the league, from media types to fans to coaches and GMs -- sees how bad Rudy Gay is playing right now. Nothing Casey says or doesn't say is changing the perception. At this point, the only person who looks bad by Casey continuing to defend Gay is Casey.

    I really wonder whether Casey is riding the tank at Masai's request. It's either that, or he truly is a lame-duck coach and Ujiri is letting him hang himself.

    The biggest hint that the tank is on and things are already happening behind the scenes: Landry Fields -- arguably the best option at backup PG on this roster -- isn't playing. Like, at all. Is he hurt? Is he already bundled in a post-Dec. 15th trade?

    Also, so you move Amir to the bench (fair enough, he really wasn't playing well). But you say you did it to improve the starting lineup. In that case, why move the best +/- guy on the team? Shopping Tyler?

    I don't know -- Casey is not a good X&Os coach, we knew that. He doesn't like rookie mistakes and glues young guys to the bench. But he never showed complete incompetence before this season. Not sure if he's this bad, or if there's a strategy at work.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  4. #843
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    Default Getting Rid of Gay

    With the realization that Rudy Gay has one of the worst contracts in the NBA, lets look at some trade scearios involiving other players with bloated contracts:

    Gay to Celtics for Humphries (1 yr @ $12 mil) and Keith Bogans ( 3 yrs @ $5 mil per) - could be tough as Celts already have Green and Wallace playing SF

    Gay to Bobcats for Ben Gordon (1 yr @ $13.2 mil) and Ramon Sessions (1 yr @ $5 mil) - will be tough as both these contracts come off the books and the end of the year... and Sessions is actually an asset.

    Gay to Detroit for Charlie V (1 yr @ $8.5 mil) and Stuckey (1 yr @ $8.5 mil) - will be tough as both these contracts come off the books and the end of the year, also both players are having a decent year (with regards to their potential/expectations)

    Gay to Bucks for Caron Butler (1 yr @ 8 mil) and Ilysova (4 yrs @ $7.9 mil) - this might be feasible - Bucks get a "legit" scoring threat, and get rid of Ilysova's 4 yr contract.

    Gay to Kings for Marcus Thorton (2 yrs @ 8.05 mil) and John Salmons (2 yrs @ $7.6 mil) - Kings might actually do this, but I don't think it is a good move for the Raptors - brings back two average/below-average players. The only upside for Raptors is changing the team dynamic and a minor salary savings.

    Yes there are other bad contracts out there (see: Stoudamire), but I don't think Raptors could get deals done.

    Considering the options we might have to get used to Gay looking off DD on a two-on-one. But hopefully Masai can pull a rabbit out of his hat and move this cancer.

  5. #844
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    Wrong sub-forum...

  6. #845
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Just noticed Stephen Brotherson's blog about Knicks, Melo "Fantasy" trade to Toronto for Rudy and Amir http://probballreport.com/fantasy-tr...-for-rudy-gay/ I would like to hear your opinion - would you give up 2014 draft pick (maybe TOP-3 or TOP-2 protected) plus Gay (according to trade machine there's no need to include more players to match salaries), if Anthony wouldn't be mind against contract extension with Toronto?
    (Sorry for poor English )

  7. #846
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I think this is overstated. Everyone -- I mean, everyone -- in the league, from media types to fans to coaches and GMs -- sees how bad Rudy Gay is playing right now. Nothing Casey says or doesn't say is changing the perception. At this point, the only person who looks bad by Casey continuing to defend Gay is Casey.

    I really wonder whether Casey is riding the tank at Masai's request. It's either that, or he truly is a lame-duck coach and Ujiri is letting him hang himself.

    The biggest hint that the tank is on and things are already happening behind the scenes: Landry Fields -- arguably the best option at backup PG on this roster -- isn't playing. Like, at all. Is he hurt? Is he already bundled in a post-Dec. 15th trade?

    Also, so you move Amir to the bench (fair enough, he really wasn't playing well). But you say you did it to improve the starting lineup. In that case, why move the best +/- guy on the team? Shopping Tyler?

    I don't know -- Casey is not a good X&Os coach, we knew that. He doesn't like rookie mistakes and glues young guys to the bench. But he never showed complete incompetence before this season. Not sure if he's this bad, or if there's a strategy at work.
    Regarding the bold, you are right but when it is said the GM doesn't have a leg to stand on in trying to squeeze every last bit of value out of a player.

    I mean as bad as Gay has been, Bargnani still returned 3 draft picks and some cap flexibility. WP48 had Bargnani twice as bad last year as Gay this year.

    While Gay is a black hole he still does put points on the board in clutch moments. He is a good defender. He is a great rebounder for his position this year.

    There are a lot of negatives on Gay but there are some positives too.

    He has talent. There will always be a GM who thinks his team's situation (roster and/or coach) will bring out the best in that talent.

    We'll see what happens.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #847
    Raptors Republic Rookie Keeping it Real's Avatar
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    Time to blow it up. This team sucks.

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  10. #848
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote japetas wrote: View Post
    Just noticed Stephen Brotherson's blog about Knicks, Melo "Fantasy" trade to Toronto for Rudy and Amir http://probballreport.com/fantasy-tr...-for-rudy-gay/ I would like to hear your opinion - would you give up 2014 draft pick (maybe TOP-3 or TOP-2 protected) plus Gay (according to trade machine there's no need to include more players to match salaries), if Anthony wouldn't be mind against contract extension with Toronto?
    Absolutely 100% definitely NOT.

    He won't be open to an extension because he gets more money to wait until he is an UFA.

    As selfish as Gay is, Melo is worse.

    Plus the only places he is playing are NY or LA due to his wife/her career in my speculative opinion.

    The draft pick is the kicker though: no way I risk losing Exum, Smart, Randle, or whoever ends up being in top 6 to build around Melo.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  12. #849
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Regarding the bold, you are right but when it is said the GM doesn't have a leg to stand on in trying to squeeze every last bit of value out of a player.

    I mean as bad as Gay has been, Bargnani still returned 3 draft picks and some cap flexibility. WP48 had Bargnani twice as bad last year as Gay this year.

    While Gay is a black hole he still does put points on the board in clutch moments. He is a good defender. He is a great rebounder for his position this year.

    There are a lot of negatives on Gay but there are some positives too.

    He has talent. There will always be a GM who thinks his team's situation (roster and/or coach) will bring out the best in that talent.

    We'll see what happens.
    Yeah, I agree. What I meant was, I'm not sure this age-old notion that, "when you're shopping a player, you never speak ill of them" actually holds true in this particular situation. I don't think there's anything negative that Casey could say about Gay right now that would lower his trade value any further. And the corollary is also true: anyone who might potentially trade for Rudy knows what positives he can still bring to the table and will ignore his time in Toronto if they pull the trigger.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  13. #850
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Absolutely 100% definitely NOT.

    He won't be open to an extension because he gets more money to wait until he is an UFA.

    As selfish as Gay is, Melo is worse.

    Plus the only places he is playing are NY or LA due to his wife/her career in my speculative opinion.

    The draft pick is the kicker though: no way I risk losing Exum, Smart, Randle, or whoever ends up being in top 6 to build around Melo.
    Maybe you're right... But do you really believe that the Raptors will be bad enough to reach TOP-6 pick? And I wouldn't compare Melo (96156196584 times All-Star) with Rudy. Their playing style is similar, but quality is different. On the other hand, Anthony would definitely lead this team to a playoffs and after all, Masai has already traded expiring Melo once and got really valuable assets, if we couldn't manage to get extension with him
    (Sorry for poor English )

  14. #851
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    The Knicks don't have their draft pick, the Nuggets do.

  15. #852
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote Nosike wrote: View Post
    The Knicks don't have their draft pick, the Nuggets do.
    Sorry, didn't get what you have in mind. We don't need any picks from Knicks. I wanted to say, that if Carmelo wouldn't want to extend contract with Raptors, after one season in a playoffs Masai could successfully trade him with his expiring contract to LA or whatever he wants, as he did it before in Denver
    (Sorry for poor English )

  16. #853
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote japetas wrote: View Post
    Maybe you're right... But do you really believe that the Raptors will be bad enough to reach TOP-6 pick? And I wouldn't compare Melo (96156196584 times All-Star) with Rudy. Their playing style is similar, but quality is different. On the other hand, Anthony would definitely lead this team to a playoffs and after all, Masai has already traded expiring Melo once and got really valuable assets, if we couldn't manage to get extension with him
    Yes - assuming no injuries.

    Look at teams in league:

    Washington, Charlotte, Detroit will all be playoff teams.

    Cleveland has had a rough start but they are better than shown and if Bynum plays as he did last game, they are playoff bound.

    Brooklyn and NY aren't staying this bad all season.

    Assuming Philly doesn't send out Young, Turner, Hawes for scraps, Toronto is on par with Philly.
    I think Orlando is on par with Toronto - maybe better.

    Assuming Sanders can return to form how he ended last year, I think Milwaukee are on par with Toronto. Bucks have had quite a few injuries to start year plus new coach.


    Only teams I've convinced Toronto is better than is Utah and Sacramento. Philly, Orlando, Milwaukee are debatable. That puts Toronto at at least 6th worst in my books.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #854
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yes - assuming no injuries.

    Look at teams in league:

    Washington, Charlotte, Detroit will all be playoff teams.

    Cleveland has had a rough start but they are better than shown and if Bynum plays as he did last game, they are playoff bound.

    Brooklyn and NY aren't staying this bad all season.

    Assuming Philly doesn't send out Young, Turner, Hawes for scraps, Toronto is on par with Philly.
    I think Orlando is on par with Toronto - maybe better.

    Assuming Sanders can return to form how he ended last year, I think Milwaukee are on par with Toronto. Bucks have had quite a few injuries to start year plus new coach.


    Only teams I've convinced Toronto is better than is Utah and Sacramento. Philly, Orlando, Milwaukee are debatable. That puts Toronto at at least 6th worst in my books.
    I'd say you're little too optimistic... Last year we started 4-18 without Rudy and we ended up @ 12th.. This year many teams are tanking as hard as ever, and we are not. We'll definitely win series against teams like Boston (not even talking about Milwaukee, Philly, Utah, Orlando and Sacramento) and we are really not much worse than Charlotte, Cleveland and Washington (if not better). If the current roster stays put, we have a little chance to be that bad... So at he and of the day, we'll end up without playoffs experience to our young team again, followed by drafting another T-Ross level prospect
    Last edited by japetas; Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 at 05:33 PM.
    (Sorry for poor English )

  18. #855
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Boromir represents the team's spirit of unselfishness.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Jhj2IE8i4#t=10

  19. #856
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    Quote japetas wrote: View Post
    I'd say you're little too optimistic... Last year we started 4-18 without Rudy and we ended up @ 12th.. This year many teams are tanking as hard as ever, and we are not. We'll definitely win series against teams like Boston (not even talking about Milwaukee, Philly, Utah, Orlando and Sacramento) and we are really not much worse than Charlotte, Cleveland and Washington (if not better). If the current roster stays put, we have a little chance to be that bad... So at he and of the day, we'll end up without playoffs experience to our young team again, followed by drafting another T-Ross level prospect
    Raps barely beat Milwaukee with a rookie 2nd round draft pick starting; relied on season best shooting to beat Philly minus Young; lost to Charlotte; barely beat Boston; lost to Washington when Nene and Gortat shot a combined 8/24 with no Ariza (contract year!).

    Milwaukee, Charlotte, Cleveland, and Washington are most definitely not tanking.

    Philly and Orlando are arguably as good as Toronto without any trades: imagine if Toronto makes trades?

    Boston is not guaranteed to be tanking and are going to have a good 20 games with Rondo playing.

    Toronto is an awful team and they are trying to be good. Good lord what happens if they try to be bad????

    In this draft, top 6 is good enough for me. I'll be happy with whatever piece comes.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  20. #857
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    In this draft, top 6 is good enough for me. I'll be happy with whatever piece comes.
    If Wiggins or Smart land here, consider my pants creamed

  21. #858
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Raps barely beat Milwaukee with a rookie 2nd round draft pick starting; relied on season best shooting to beat Philly minus Young; lost to Charlotte; barely beat Boston; lost to Washington when Nene and Gortat shot a combined 8/24 with no Ariza (contract year!).

    Milwaukee, Charlotte, Cleveland, and Washington are most definitely not tanking.

    Philly and Orlando are arguably as good as Toronto without any trades: imagine if Toronto makes trades?

    Boston is not guaranteed to be tanking and are going to have a good 20 games with Rondo playing.

    Toronto is an awful team and they are trying to be good. Good lord what happens if they try to be bad????

    In this draft, top 6 is good enough for me. I'll be happy with whatever piece comes.
    Mark Murphy: Sullinger is talking playoffs. - "(We want to) show everybody that they can kiss our butts about that tanking stuff."
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  22. #859
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    You guys are severely underrating Rudy Gay here.
    If Bargnani could get a 1st rounder, 2 secound rounders and a great 3 point shooter, I expect Gay to fetch much more.
    Granted, MU did fleece the Knicks, but there has to be another team out there that will give up assets for Rudy Gay.
    I am thinking about

    1. The Bucks
    2. The Knicks again (put Melo at PF and get a real #2 option to keep him in NY)
    3. Wizards (Otto Porter could be moved)

    3 Realistic Trade Partners that could want Gay's services.

  23. #860
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Wow, I didn't see this yesterday:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/video/mozgov...190045098.html

    GOOD LORD!

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