View Poll Results: Would you swap Ross for Davis in the Gay trade if possible?

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Thread: Everything Rudy Gay

  1. #561
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    Oh, okay. I get it now. So for the privilege of taking in a player that is nowhere near a franchise player who makes nearly that $20 million all on his own, (Gay), Golden State should:

    - eat over $22 million salary over two years for a negative win shares player (Bargnani)
    - give away two expiring contracts worth $20 million combined (Jefferson, Biedrins)
    - give away either a very good three point shooter, going into his third season in the NBA, who just put up 15/4.5/2, steal, 2 threes in twelve playoff games whose trade value is pretty high right now (Thompson) OR the #7 draft pick who just put up 16/6.5/1.5, 1.5 threes in twelve playoffs as a rookie (Barnes)
    - give away a first round draft pick in a draft projected to be extremely deep

    Am I missing something? Please let me know. I really want to understand the genius of this trade for the Warriors. Please show me how to think outside the box.
    Last edited by TRX; Tue May 21st, 2013 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #562
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    Oh, okay. I get it now. So for the privilege of taking in a player that is nowhere near a franchise player who makes nearly that $20 million all on his own, (Gay), Golden State should:

    - eat over $22 million salary over two years for a negative win shares player (Bargnani)
    - give away two expiring contracts worth $20 million combined (Jefferson, Biedrins)
    - give away either a very good three point shooter, going into his third season in the NBA, who just put up 15/4.5/2, steal, 2 threes in twelve playoff games whose trade value is pretty high right now (Thompson) OR the #7 draft pick who just put up 16/6.5/1.5, 1.5 threes in twelve playoffs as a rookie (Barnes)
    - give away a first round draft pick in a draft projected to be extremely deep

    Am I missing something? Please let me know. I really want to understand the genius of this trade for the Warriors. Please show me how to think outside the box.
    You don't grasp conversation very well.

    No one not even me thinks bargnani is going to golden state with gay.

    You are bringing up talking points from days ago.

    Adapt man.

  3. #563
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    1. I was replying to your post on the last page of the thread at the time where you specifically mentioned Gay and Bargnani in a package as one of two plausible scenarios.
    2. Quite literally no relevant conversation happened since that post except for:
      • white men can’t jump “seriously question[ing] the competence of GSW’s management/ownership if they went down this path” with no response from you, and
      • a small exchange between you and TRex - where he called (I believe) the first scenario (sans Bargnani) dumb and where you defended yourself by saying there were non-basketball justifications. I wouldn’t want to put words in TRex’s mouth though; what he actually said was “You’re kidding right? No one in their right mind would trade Barnes + Klay for Gay. Heck, i [sic] wouldn’t even trades Barnes or Klay straight up for Gay.” I also wouldn’t want to put words in your mouth. What you actually said was “You also forget many trades are done for nonbasketball reasons.”. You were either implying this would be one of them or your statement was irrelevant. I wouldn't want you to claim you were misrepresented here either so please clarify which case is accurate.

    It might be understandable that I thought I was responding to a current thought of yours, given points #1 and #2.

    Now, my quick response to your most recent reply would be to say, okay, simply remove my first bullet point and amend my second bullet point to include only Jefferson and his $11 million expiring contract… as per your first stated trade scenario between the Warriors and Raptors from the same post. Show me the genius in that for the Warriors instead.

    Thankfully, I’m a pretty patient guy, just as interested in accurate representation as yourself. I understand sometimes we say things that we realize are a little silly and want to take them back. So please, what is your updated reasonable trade scenario between the Raptors and the Warriors would be that would net the Warriors #22 Rudy Gay? I wouldn’t want to dismantle a different trade scenario only to have misrepresented your thoughts yet again.

  4. #564
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    1. I was replying to your post on the last page of the thread at the time where you specifically mentioned Gay and Bargnani in a package as one of two plausible scenarios.
    2. Quite literally no relevant conversation happened since that post except for:
      • white men can’t jump “seriously question[ing] the competence of GSW’s management/ownership if they went down this path” with no response from you, and
      • a small exchange between you and TRex - where he called (I believe) the first scenario (sans Bargnani) dumb and where you defended yourself by saying there were non-basketball justifications. I wouldn’t want to put words in TRex’s mouth though; what he actually said was “You’re kidding right? No one in their right mind would trade Barnes + Klay for Gay. Heck, i [sic] wouldn’t even trades Barnes or Klay straight up for Gay.” I also wouldn’t want to put words in your mouth. What you actually said was “You also forget many trades are done for nonbasketball reasons.”. You were either implying this would be one of them or your statement was irrelevant. I wouldn't want you to claim you were misrepresented here either so please clarify which case is accurate.

    It might be understandable that I thought I was responding to a current thought of yours, given points #1 and #2.

    Now, my quick response to your most recent reply would be to say, okay, simply remove my first bullet point and amend my second bullet point to include only Jefferson and his $11 million expiring contract… as per your first stated trade scenario between the Warriors and Raptors from the same post. Show me the genius in that for the Warriors instead.

    Thankfully, I’m a pretty patient guy, just as interested in accurate representation as yourself. I understand sometimes we say things that we realize are a little silly and want to take them back. So please, what is your updated reasonable trade scenario between the Raptors and the Warriors would be that would net the Warriors #22 Rudy Gay? I wouldn’t want to dismantle a different trade scenario only to have misrepresented your thoughts yet again.
    I really don't give a shit.

    Blowing things up were discussed and so was trading gay. I chimed in.

    Golden state reportedly had gay discussions and west is a fan. Golden state also have had interest in Bargnani if rumors are correct. i was shooting the shit giving examples of what would work under CBA.

    I really don't give a flying fuck if you don't agree. My thoughts are pretty clear to dismantle if you are so inclined.

  5. #565
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    Matty D has spoken. Please leave the premises if you wish to live, thank you.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  6. #566
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    lol, insult, condescend and backtrack... then get vulgar and back out. Typical.

  7. #567
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    lol, insult, condescend and backtrack... then get vulgar and back out. Typical.
    You are asking to debate something I clearly said was crazy from the get go. I do not believe in the position you are pushing upon me. I took a lot of rumors, strung them together under the guise of Toronto blowing things up. Maybe find a talking point that is relevant and is not crazy then you can dismantle until your hearts content.

  8. #568
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You are asking to debate something I clearly said was crazy from the get go. I do not believe in the position you are pushing upon me. I took a lot of rumors, strung them together under the guise of Toronto blowing things up. Maybe find a talking point that is relevant and is not crazy then you can dismantle until your hearts content.
    Matt from what I'm comprehending, is just addressing a certain rumour, no more than just small speculation.

  9. #569
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Isn't it possible to just go back and edit comments? If we all did that more, a lot of these threads would look a lot more brilliant. And probably read smoother.


  10. #570
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Matt from what I'm comprehending, is just addressing a certain rumour, no more than just small speculation.
    His last response is also against the forum rules, and not just by a tiny bit.

    I would suggest to collar him temporarily but mine is currently put to good use.

  11. Like mcHAPPY liked this post
  12. #571
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    His last response is also against the forum rules, and not just by a tiny bit.

    I would suggest to collar him temporarily but mine is currently put to good use.
    How so?

    I have a person badgering me to engage in a debate which I said from the beginning was crazy and unlikely while accrediting statements to me which were not accurate. I used two inappropriate words but they were not directed at the poster. Last I checked moderate language is appropriate, excessive is a warning.
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  13. #572
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    His last response is also against the forum rules, and not just by a tiny bit.

    I would suggest to collar him temporarily but mine is currently put to good use.
    Not sure if anyone is breaking any rules, maybe they're having a fairly heated debate, and we don't have enough of those around here anymore (sadly).

  14. #573
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Not sure if anyone is breaking any rules, maybe they're having a fairly heated debate, and we don't have enough of those around here anymore (sadly).
    Just wait til October when Casey names Bargnani our starting power forward
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #574
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    First of all, I find it amusing that for somebody who averages 11.84 posts a day, 3 posts in two days constitutes badgering. Second of all, I was initially unaware that the post I responded to was ten days old when I responded; I followed up by asking honestly for Matt52's current thoughts on what kind of trade he thought would be feasible that would get Gay to the Warriors. Admittedly, I was a bit snarky when I said I would dismantle it and it may not have been received as honest, but considering the abrasive manner in which I was responded to in the first place, forgive me if I'm not feeling contrite at the moment. (Believe me though, if there is a trade out there that would ship Gay off to the Warriors - that the Warriors might agree to, I'd love for the Raptors to seriously consider it.)

    And honestly, ReubenJRD, I think even if you are just "throwing something out there", it should have even the slightest thread of plausibility or it's not really even responding to. And I'm assuming if you're posting something on a public forum, you want some kind of response. I'm still not sure if that was the case here, quite honestly. Regardless, I was trying to figure out that thread of plausibility and at no point did I really get an answer.

    That being said, I certainly don't think any forum rules were broken, but the rules of most forums still leave plenty of room for one to act like a jerk without breaking said rules.
    Last edited by TRX; Wed May 22nd, 2013 at 05:11 PM.

  16. #575
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    First of all, I find it amusing that for somebody who averages 11.84 posts a day, 3 posts in two days constitutes badgering. Second of all, I was initially unaware that the post I responded to was ten days old when I responded; I followed up by asking honestly for Matt52's current thoughts on what kind of trade he thought would be feasible that would get Gay to the Warriors. Admittedly, I was a bit snarky when I said I would dismantle it and it may not have been received as honest, but considering the abrasive manner in which I was responded to in the first place, forgive me if I'm not feeling contrite at the moment. (Believe me though, if there is a trade out there that would ship Gay off to the Warriors - that the Warriors might agree to, I'd love for the Raptors to seriously consider it.)

    And honestly, ReubenJRD, I think even if you are just "throwing something out there", it should have even the slightest thread of plausibility or it's not really even responding to. And I'm assuming if you're posting something on a public forum, you want some kind of response. I'm still not sure if that was the case here, quite honestly. Regardless, I was trying to figure out that thread of plausibility and at no point did I really get an answer.

    That being said, I certainly don't think any forum rules were broken, but the rules of most forums still leave plenty of room for one to act like a jerk without breaking said rules.


    What does my number of posts have to do with anything? You were repeatedly asking questions my posts already answered. If you wanted my thoughts - including how ridiculous I thought they were - you only had to read. I answered your questions as to why they might be done financially. You didn't agree with my thinking and then misinterpreted my responses. I definitely got snarky - sorry about that - but this was a conversation I wanted no part of because I thought I had already made my position clear with the unlikelihood of anything remotely similar to what I suggested happening. You want to dismantle my posts, I have nothing new to add nor believe in the conversation to begin with.... end of story.

    There is overreaction on my part but with no keyboard access the last 6 days, no desire to thumb out a reply on an iPhone, and most of your questions/misinterpretations addressed, this is my perspective in video form:

    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #576
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    Oh, okay. I get it now. So for the privilege of taking in a player that is nowhere near a franchise player who makes nearly that $20 million all on his own, (Gay), Golden State should:

    - eat over $22 million salary over two years for a negative win shares player (Bargnani)
    - give away two expiring contracts worth $20 million combined (Jefferson, Biedrins)
    - give away either a very good three point shooter, going into his third season in the NBA, who just put up 15/4.5/2, steal, 2 threes in twelve playoff games whose trade value is pretty high right now (Thompson) OR the #7 draft pick who just put up 16/6.5/1.5, 1.5 threes in twelve playoffs as a rookie (Barnes)
    - give away a first round draft pick in a draft projected to be extremely deep

    Am I missing something? Please let me know. I really want to understand the genius of this trade for the Warriors. Please show me how to think outside the box.
    I have a keyboard, 21" screen, and time now versus an iPhone and no real time.

    I see a major fact I missed. You are absolutely right Biedrins/Jefferson/pick/1 of Klay-Barnes for Gay/Bargnani is hardly ideal for Warriors financially.

    Somewhere along the way I started thinking Gay for Biedrins/Jefferson/Barnes/1st (I'll just stop typing Klay because he is a 2-guard and I don't see Barnes/Gay playing together) likely due to lack of screen size and time the last 6 days. From a financial perspective the Warriors actually get back to the luxury threshold (and that is before team option on Jones and Rush/Landry player options), not even including high likelihood salary tax and luxury tax thresholds are raised. The Ws would be turning $20M in dead weight and Barnes in to a player in his prime (who might even be better than Barnes ever will be) to form a front line with 2 other players in their prime (Bogut - 28; and Lee - 30) plus saving around $13M next season in salary and tax. They might look at the opportunity to win as NOW especially given Curry's ankle history and problems he encountered in the playoffs.

    The following season (14-15) W's would have around $54M with Gay and the Bird Rights to Bogut. Following year Gay able to be resigned for what I would think is considerably less than $19.3M.


    Now to be clear, do I think any of this is likely? Hardly. Shooting the shit when the idea of blowing everything up is where this came from thinking about who might actually want to take on Gay.


    I hope this covers/clarifies everything and my apologies for snarkiness on my end. The confusion appears to make a lot of sense now when you include both Bargnani and Gay. I absolutely did type that initially but the only plausible aspect of that trade was from the perspective of the CBA. Gay and Bargnani does nothing for the Ws from a financial perspective - Gay alone does but you take away the promise of what Barnes might become and the possibility to add via trade.

    It should be noted that unless the Ws rescind rights to Bogut they won't have any significant cap space for free agency in 2014-15 when they have about $35M on the books as of now. Bogut's cap hold takes them to $51M so they might have in the area of $10M assuming cap goes up with 9 guys under contract (including Boguts cap hold) and they would also have the top up exception of $2.5M. I know a lot of people are talking about the cap space they are going to have but a bit chunk of that is tied up in Bogut's hold taking them out of free agency but still keeping trades an option.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #577
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    I appreciate the apology. Definitely my bad for any misinterpretation (certainly unintended; as unproductive as attacking strawmen is, I'd never do it on purpose). I'd also like to apologize specifically for using "dismantling". Admittedly, I took it a little personal; I normally try to read everybody's opinions as unbiasedly as possible and form responses afterwards. But, uh, back to the stuff that matters.

    ... lol, I've thought about it more and as I was trying to write a whole post about why it still doesn't make sense for the Warriors, I've begun to swing the other way a bit. Biedrins and Jefferson are both expiring this upcoming season anyway so it's not like they'd be deadweight for much longer. On the other hand, there aren't really any great free agents in the 2014 offseason to go after when they're both off the books, as far as I can tell. As overpaid as Rudy Gay is and still overrated in my opinion, I still think he's a good player that would work in a system where he isn't asked to be the first option and a go-to scorer in crunch time and a part time playmaker and exert a lot of energy chasing good players on defence. (And if he stops taking so many 16-23 footers, but yeah.) Much like Iguodala really blossomed when he wasn't asked to be a 20 PPG scorer night in and night out (albeit as a better defender than Gay), if Gay falls in line behind Curry and Lee offensively, he can focus on scoring some, creating some while being an above average rebounder and defender.

    I guess it really depends how much you think Harrison Barnes will grow in the next two seasons. I think his trade stock is pretty damn high right now and if Golden State really wanted to make a deal for Gay, they wouldn't need to throw in a draft pick - and they could probably still ask for something back from the Raptors. Nothing major, but I'd think $20 million in expiring contracts and a rookie that just performed pretty well in his first season/postseason is worth more than a #2/2b option set to make $37 million over the next two seasons. I'm not quite sure what the Warriors could ask for without making it a lopsided trade though. I feel like if they really wanted to get fair value, a third team would have to be involved.

    On a related note, I'm wondering what people think Rudy Gay should actually be making if he could be amnestied immediately.

  19. #578
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    On a related note, I'm wondering what people think Rudy Gay should actually be making if he could be amnestied immediately.
    8-10. somewhere in the middling star category seems fair.

  20. #579
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    8-10. somewhere in the middling star category seems fair.
    This especially cause hes still young and an incredible specimen of a player.

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    Rudy Gay was on first take this morning

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