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Thread: Amir Johnson - legit starting PF?

  1. #61
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gasol fits this description quite nicely.
    He does. I'm just so torn on him.

    On one hand, he fits the description perfectly and could (theoretically at this point) be acquired for Bargnani & spare parts.

    On the other hand, he's 31 and making $19M this season and next, on an otherwise young Raptors team - he's not really a long-term solution.

    If the Raps can't get Millsap, then perhaps Gasol would be the best solution, even for just next season. There really aren't any free agent PFs this year that fit the description, are young and would be a significant upgrade over Amir (and are realistic targets to sign). So, it might be best to trade for Gasol and ride him for a year-and-a-half, then see what you could trade him for as an expiring or take your chances in free agency in 2014 with $19M to spend!

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    How about Kevin Love? hahahha
    I don't think its all that ridiculous... Love is not getting along with Minny's management. He hasn't been very useful this year with his injuries either.

    Minny is a small market team that has a hard time attracting free agents.. so why not ship them a package of DeMar (they need a SG and were at one time interested), Bargnani and a lottery protected first (basically the reverse of the Houston/Lowry trade). I would include anyone other than JV/Ross/Gay and Lowry. Khan has also made some odd decisions over his tenure there in Minny so anything is possible.

    DeMar/Andrea could be a nice package if you consider that both have long term deals. Pekovich/AK47 would also be a pretty good pairing with Andrea defensively. Long shot for sure, but if we can get Gay for Jose and Davis anything should be possible in my opinion.

  3. #63
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I don't think its all that ridiculous... Love is not getting along with Minny's management. He hasn't been very useful this year with his injuries either.

    Minny is a small market team that has a hard time attracting free agents.. so why not ship them a package of DeMar (they need a SG and were at one time interested), Bargnani and a lottery protected first (basically the reverse of the Houston/Lowry trade). I would include anyone other than JV/Ross/Gay and Lowry. Khan has also made some odd decisions over his tenure there in Minny so anything is possible.

    DeMar/Andrea could be a nice package if you consider that both have long term deals. Pekovich/AK47 would also be a pretty good pairing with Andrea defensively. Long shot for sure, but if we can get Gay for Jose and Davis anything should be possible in my opinion.
    Nice idea! Rebounding and 3pt shooting from an upgraded PF... that would be excellent!

    Something like this? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d77lm8t

    As you said, Toronto could also send some picks to Minnesota, though I don't believe they can trade any future 1st round picks yet.

    Haha if only!

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    He does. I'm just so torn on him.

    On one hand, he fits the description perfectly and could (theoretically at this point) be acquired for Bargnani & spare parts.

    On the other hand, he's 31 and making $19M this season and next, on an otherwise young Raptors team - he's not really a long-term solution.

    If the Raps can't get Millsap, then perhaps Gasol would be the best solution, even for just next season. There really aren't any free agent PFs this year that fit the description, are young and would be a significant upgrade over Amir (and are realistic targets to sign). So, it might be best to trade for Gasol and ride him for a year-and-a-half, then see what you could trade him for as an expiring or take your chances in free agency in 2014 with $19M to spend!
    Said it before - Raps biggest need is a low post - back to the basket big. And yes, Gasol is one of the best in this league at that... and given his situation - I read daily on hoophype he isn't happy coming off the bench in LA - this very well maybe the best option for us. I'm up for a year and a half for now. A team with him and minus #7 and Anderson would take us to the playoffs next season, potentially beyond the first round. Signing him on a better contact after 2014 is an option.
    Kevin Love is a pipe dream of a Gay Lover

  5. #65
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    A guy like HIckson scares the shit out of me. No meeting his potential for years. Finally starts to last year in a contract year. Signs a modest contract with a player option and blows up. Scary, scary shit right there.
    As it should. JJ made tons of bad decisions while playing for the Cavaliers and it's really hard to believe they are things of the past.

    Keep in mind Sacramento waived JJ last March, just a few short months after sending Assfingers and a conditional first round pick for his services. Portland picked him and his stats took a big step forward.

    But in JJ, I do not trust. I've been a Cleveland fan too long and saw him screw up way too many times.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    He does. I'm just so torn on him.

    On one hand, he fits the description perfectly and could (theoretically at this point) be acquired for Bargnani & spare parts.

    On the other hand, he's 31 and making $19M this season and next, on an otherwise young Raptors team - he's not really a long-term solution.

    If the Raps can't get Millsap, then perhaps Gasol would be the best solution, even for just next season. There really aren't any free agent PFs this year that fit the description, are young and would be a significant upgrade over Amir (and are realistic targets to sign). So, it might be best to trade for Gasol and ride him for a year-and-a-half, then see what you could trade him for as an expiring or take your chances in free agency in 2014 with $19M to spend!
    Although he's 31, I can see Gasol "aging well". His game doesn't rely on speed, strength and athleticism. He's a very cerebral player with a soft touch around the basket. If we were to acquire him (and extend him), I could see Gasol drawing double teams even at 34-35 years old.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I think Amir is capable. But if the goal is to win a championship then they need to upgrade the 4 spot.

    A lineup of JV, Amir, Gay, DeRozan, Lowry to me though is a dangerous playoff team but not a championship team.
    The goal for the Raptors isn't to win a championship, we're no where near reaching that task. The No.1 Goal for this club is to make the play-offs. Once we get there you take the next step (2nd round, etc) and move from there. Unless you have 2 of the best players in the game in Lebron and Wade, you don't just get to the finals in one year. Its a process (see OKC). We've taken a huge step by acquiring Rudy Gay, and whether Amir can be a starter for this new team or not will ultimately be based on his individual performance as well as the team's performance.
    Last edited by matt; Tue Feb 5th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #68
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    With Davis gone we are getting a good look at Amir as the starting pf. It's only been 2 games, one that was awesome, definitely elite level and the other was good. I want to see him make the most of this opportunity by focusing on rebounds and being a great defender. If he scores on open looks and gets his share of tough buckets around the rim he can play 30 min and be the answer for this team at the 4.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    With Davis gone we are getting a good look at Amir as the starting pf. It's only been 2 games, one that was awesome, definitely elite level and the other was good. I want to see him make the most of this opportunity by focusing on rebounds and being a great defender. If he scores on open looks and gets his share of tough buckets around the rim he can play 30 min and be the answer for this team at the 4.
    I would argue that the 2nd game wasn't good at all. He got in early foul trouble and sat on the bench while we got destroyed. It doesn't matter how well he could play, if he's riding the pine with fouls (which has plagued him throughout his career). Also, when he plays passively, too worried about picking up fouls, he's not nearly as effective as he is when he's aggressive defensively. I think that's why he's always been most effective in short bursts, playing 16-24 MPG, when he is free to play most aggressively.

    Maybe it's not a matter of finding a starting PF, but more a matter of finding another PF to split time with evenly, sort of a 1A/1B PF platoon.

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gasol fits this description quite nicely.
    4 words describe my thoughts .... I DON'T WANT GASOL. If Raps were play-off bound, and beyond a 1st round team, then maybe. Otherwise ... Noooooooooooooo.

    Gasol is becoming a shell of his former self, precipitated by bad wheels. An issue that will only get worse, while we pay him 19.3 million next season.

    Assuming Bargs moves out (with Gasol moving in), Raptors would have a payroll next season greater then 80 million. There's no doubt Rogers wants to spend, in order to boost the peripheral income sources (TV), but in this case ..... NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

    Granted, if Kleiza is amnestied (and assuming he invokes the player option of his contract), Toronto payroll would fall to about 75-76 million. But that's only for 10 players. Add 5 players & Raptor payroll would come in at somewhere around 80 million - for a luxury tax of 16.25 million ... bringing real costs to about 96 million dollars. Like I said .... NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

    Remember ... that 16+ million tax, is a 180 degree swing from prior years, when Toronto was the beneficiary of those tax dollars. In the new CBA ... "Up to 50% of the tax money may be given to non-taxpaying teams". Getting Gasol could end up costing Toronto somewhere in the vicinity of 20 million dollars.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

    The Solution

    As per Hollinger
    Johnson rated among the top quarter of centers, according to Synergy,

    I think Raps should start Amir & Andrea - once AB acclimatizes himself to this Raptor team with a new Alpha male -- Rudy Gay. Jonas will eventually start, but right now, he needs to develop off the Bench.

    Net result .... AJ plays Centre, Bargs roams the perimeter, allowing Rudy/Demar more opportunity to attack the basket. Amir has the ability to play further away from the basket then Gray does, allowing AB to move into the Post. As a Front Court team, they can alternate this formula to suit their Opponent, as well as game tactics to their Offense.

    .

    Further to the new CBA (as per Larry Coon), are rules that would affect the Raps - if they exceed the Luxury tax.

    In addition to the tax payments described in question number 21, taxpaying teams have the following restrictions. Note that most of these restrictions aren't triggered unless the team would be over the "apron" -- the point $4 million above the tax level -- following a signing or trade.

    1) Teams above the apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).

    2) Teams above the apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25). Teams above the apron can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower (for example, in 2011-12 it is $3 million for teams above the apron, versus $5 million for other teams).

    3) Taxpaying teams can acquire less salary in a simultaneous trade (see question number 82).

    4) Starting in 2013-14, teams above the apron cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).

    5)Teams above the apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 44). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.
    .
    Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Tue Feb 5th, 2013 at 03:52 PM.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Raps have never used cap space wisely. So if Rogers/Bell doesn't mind spending into the tax, why do you?

    2 years of Gasol at $19 million, is worth far more to me than 3 years of Bargnani at $11 million.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote matt wrote: View Post
    The goal for the Raptors isn't to win a championship, we're no where near reaching that task. The No.1 Goal for this club is to make the play-offs. Once we get there you take the next step (2nd round, etc) and move from there. Unless you have 2 of the best players in the game in Lebron and Wade, you don't just get to the finals in one year. Its a process (see OKC). We've taken a huge step by acquiring Rudy Gay, and whether Amir can be a starter for this new team or not will ultimately be based on his individual performance as well as the team's performance.
    The key is how you go from one step to the next. OKC had draft picks galore, a ton of prospects and a lot of short and moveable contracts. We have two guys that everything thinks are untouchable, no draft pick this year, and a slew of overpaid players. Let's say next year we make a playoff spot, then we won't have a lottery pick next year either.

    We're not in the same position OKC was where at some point they could say "Okay, let's just stand pat and develop into a championship team". In order for a team like Toronto in the situation we are in with contracts, in order to take that next step we need to either go big or go home.
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  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Starter Buschfire's Avatar
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    Lowry / Lucas
    DeRozan / Ross
    Gay / Fields / Anderson
    Johnson / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Valancuinas / Gray / Haddadi?

    What do you think of this starting line up? Move Bargs back to C when he comes back, or Amir at the 5?
    Buschfire

    Raptors fan since day 1.

  14. #74
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    Amir can be a legit starting PF with Raps, as Gay, DD, Lowry and AA(assuming he stays) will need to get their shots. Amir is a low-profile, non-demanding player that will take what he gets without saying a word.

    If we are to build a championship team, Amir is the equivalent of the Heat's Udonis Haslem. I can live with that...

  15. #75
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Buschfire wrote: View Post
    Lowry / Lucas
    DeRozan / Ross
    Gay / Fields / Anderson
    Johnson / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Valancuinas / Gray / Haddadi?

    What do you think of this starting line up? Move Bargs back to C when he comes back, or Amir at the 5?
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnson/Gray starting, with Bargnani/Valanciunas coming off the bench. I don't see Bargnani & Johnson starting, since that would leave Gray & Valanciunas (no PF) off the bench, unless they are really comfortable with Gray playing PF with the 2nd unit.

  16. #76
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I don't think its all that ridiculous... Love is not getting along with Minny's management. He hasn't been very useful this year with his injuries either.

    Minny is a small market team that has a hard time attracting free agents.. so why not ship them a package of DeMar (they need a SG and were at one time interested), Bargnani and a lottery protected first (basically the reverse of the Houston/Lowry trade). I would include anyone other than JV/Ross/Gay and Lowry. Khan has also made some odd decisions over his tenure there in Minny so anything is possible.

    DeMar/Andrea could be a nice package if you consider that both have long term deals. Pekovich/AK47 would also be a pretty good pairing with Andrea defensively. Long shot for sure, but if we can get Gay for Jose and Davis anything should be possible in my opinion.
    I haven't been able to stop thinking about this idea, as ridiculous as it may sound...

    If the Raps miss the playoffs and their pick is traded to OKC, future 1st round picks are suddenly once again available as tradeable assets.

    Although doubtful, I bet Minnesota would at least have to give some serious consideration to a trade offer like this:
    TO MINNESOTA: Bargnani & DeRozan & 2 1st round picks (2014 & 2016, or 2015 & 2017) & possibly some 2nd round picks (any of 2014, SAC-2014, 2015)
    TO TORONTO: Love & Ridnour & Roy (salary dump to facilitate re-signing of Pekovic & Buddinger)

    Minnesota could even turn around and try to trade Bargnani/Williams/1st round pick(s) to the Lakers for Gasol, if they wanted to.

    Toronto's lineup would suddenly be stacked - starting PF, rebounding and backup PG problems would all be solved!
    C: Valanciunas, Gray*
    PF: Love, Johnson, Acy
    SF: Gay, Anderson**, Kleiza*
    SG: Fields, Ross
    PG: Lowry, Ridnour, Lucas*

    * if option picked-up
    ** if re-signed



    EDIT: incredibly far-fetched, I know... but DeRozan & 2 1st round picks is a pretty good return (especially if Bargnani and picks could help land Gasol)... all based on Love's apparent love/hate relationship with Minnesota
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Feb 5th, 2013 at 05:28 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I haven't been able to stop thinking about this idea, as ridiculous as it may sound...

    If the Raps miss the playoffs and their pick is traded to OKC, future 1st round picks are suddenly once again available as tradeable assets.

    Although doubtful, I bet Minnesota would at least have to give some serious consideration to a trade offer like this:
    TO MINNESOTA: Bargnani & DeRozan & 2 1st round picks (2014 & 2016, or 2015 & 2017) & possibly some 2nd round picks (any of 2014, SAC-2014, 2015)
    TO TORONTO: Love & Ridnour & Roy (salary dump to facilitate re-signing of Pekovic & Buddinger)

    Minnesota could even turn around and try to trade Bargnani/Williams/1st round pick(s) to the Lakers for Gasol, if they wanted to.

    Toronto's lineup would suddenly be stacked - starting PF, rebounding and backup PG problems would all be solved!
    C: Valanciunas, Gray*
    PF: Love, Johnson, Acy
    SF: Gay, Anderson**, Kleiza*
    SG: Fields, Ross
    PG: Lowry, Ridnour, Lucas*

    * if option picked-up
    ** if re-signed
    I don't see how it's possible for someone to consider this as dumb as the Minny staff is. Love and Ridnour are two of their most productive players...and bargs and derozan have accomplished exactly zero in this league.

    I also don't really like the Gasol idea. Let's give Amir a chance to develop with JV...our starting lineup with those two in teh front court and ross coming off the bench is a great team in a few years

  18. #78
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    The only real value going to Minnesota here is the two first rounders. Bargnani's contract certainly doesn't sweeten the deal and I'm not sure how many teams want Demar at 10M/yr for the next 4 years either. But Raptors first rounders are always highly coveted, (and sure to be in good supply as long as Colangelo is driving the car) so maybe this deal could happen.

  19. #79
    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    guy loves Toronto, cool to see
    Last edited by FoxMachine; Tue Feb 5th, 2013 at 06:27 PM.

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    great photo. thank you
    For The Win

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