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Thread: Amir Johnson - legit starting PF?

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    My preference would definitely be Millsap > Ilyasova > Gasol > Boozer
    Out of these 4 guys, Millsap is the only one who have to be acquired in the next 7 days. The others could technically be traded for in the summer.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #122
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Out of these 4 guys, Millsap is the only one who have to be acquired in the next 7 days. The others could technically be traded for in the summer.
    Millsap could be acquired via S&T in the offseason, but it would require Bargnani or DeRozan (at least), just to balance salary. AND he'd have to WANT to sign here.... minor detail!

  3. #123
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Millsap could be acquired via S&T in the offseason, but it would require Bargnani or DeRozan (at least), just to balance salary. AND he'd have to WANT to sign here.... minor detail!
    Given
    -how well Demar is playing, both in individual improvements and chemistry with Gay
    -how you need 4 solid wings and that's what we have right now (Gay, DD, Fields, Ross, and AA as a 5th is really solid)
    -how Ross is still an unknown in terms of development....high ceiling, but what will his learning curve be? This is especially important since I think Demar for Millsap is a lateral move talent-wise (Millsap's good, but there are sadly a lot of equal or better PFs in the leageu), so Ross better look like he's soon going to eclipse Demar if this trade happens..
    -how I think Lowry is still in trial period until next year, and if they're not sold on keeping him, having him and Demar to work with in packages is a strong hand....I mean, what if LAC is willing to let go of Bledsoe, but doesn't want another PG? Or Washington/Wall can't agree on his future there and it could help acquire him? Or if a team with a high calibre PG is blowing it up ????? (Demar + Lowry + 1st rd pick(s) could possibly attract a very talented player if such a situation presents itself)

    I'm not sure it's a good idea to trade Demar for Millsap at such a soon time. I wouldn't be too angry if it happened, but I'm not actually sure it would be getting the most out of Demar's value on or off the court.

  4. #124
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Given
    -how well Demar is playing, both in individual improvements and chemistry with Gay
    -how you need 4 solid wings and that's what we have right now (Gay, DD, Fields, Ross, and AA as a 5th is really solid)
    -how Ross is still an unknown in terms of development....high ceiling, but what will his learning curve be? This is especially important since I think Demar for Millsap is a lateral move talent-wise (Millsap's good, but there are sadly a lot of equal or better PFs in the leageu), so Ross better look like he's soon going to eclipse Demar if this trade happens..
    -how I think Lowry is still in trial period until next year, and if they're not sold on keeping him, having him and Demar to work with in packages is a strong hand....I mean, what if LAC is willing to let go of Bledsoe, but doesn't want another PG? Or Washington/Wall can't agree on his future there and it could help acquire him? Or if a team with a high calibre PG is blowing it up ????? (Demar + Lowry + 1st rd pick(s) could possibly attract a very talented player if such a situation presents itself)

    I'm not sure it's a good idea to trade Demar for Millsap at such a soon time. I wouldn't be too angry if it happened, but I'm not actually sure it would be getting the most out of Demar's value on or off the court.
    I wasn't promoting a DeRozan-Millsap trade (nor would I be opposed to it), just pointing out that one of the two (Bargnani/DeRozan) would need to be included in a S&T deal to make salaries match, as the only way to acquire Millsap (either at the deadline or in the offseason).

  5. #125
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I wasn't promoting a DeRozan-Millsap trade (nor would I be opposed to it), just pointing out that one of the two (Bargnani/DeRozan) would need to be included in a S&T deal to make salaries match, as the only way to acquire Millsap (either at the deadline or in the offseason).
    Yeah, I just worry that even an offseason trade (because I still doubt UTH wants Bargs, so Demar is our only real chip) using Demar is premature relative to what Demar has shown. It is also why I think Ilyasova could help in that respect. He could be more desirable than Bargs in the offseason. So then at least they have Ilyasova + Demar to work with, so maybe they don't have to trade Demar, or maybe they get an even better player than Millsap??? REally, I'm just trying to think of what gives them the best options from here until the offseason to address things...
    *of course, my option likely depends far too much on the Bucks deciding to blow it up...but it could happen
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Feb 14th, 2013 at 02:24 PM.

  6. #126
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    We already have Demar and Gay who can score on the low block anyway though, low post scoring shouldn't have to be a huge NEED because of the number of slashers/cutters on this team. Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Fields.

    We saw what New York put out last night. Carmelo plays a majority of his game on the low block, where Demar and Gay should be spending half the time whether it's slashing, or the low block.
    Gay is a jumper shooter and DeRozan I would consider a slasher. Neither are all that comfortable in the post. Look at last night. Gay couldn't even post up FELTON! They can here and there get points there but, not regularly. The good part about having those two is that one of them will always be on. It hard to stop both of them. The rare occasion when that does happen and the shots aren't falling. It's going to be a long night.

  7. #127
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Gay is a jumper shooter and DeRozan I would consider a slasher. Neither are all that comfortable in the post. Look at last night. Gay couldn't even post up FELTON! They can here and there get points there but, not regularly. The good part about having those two is that one of them will always be on. It hard to stop both of them. The rare occasion when that does happen and the shots aren't falling. It's going to be a long night.
    There's a COMPLETE difference, from putting the ball in his hands at the perimeter, and asking him to create with his back to the basket from there, compared to a team utilizing a play to get the player into their set spot. That should have been noticed before saying he can't post up Felton. A LOW POST/INSIDE presence, doesn't create with their back to the basket from the perimeter.
    You have to establish position, you have to seal the defender, and you need to get into a spot on the court able to give you the best opportunity to put that ball into the hoop.

    I don't think Gay is a jump shooter, if anything, he's a shot creator, because with using LAST NIGHT as an example, he attacked the rim, WHEN he got his opportunities with his back to the basket, he was able to get easy shots. Problem was, he struggled to get them in.

    Anyways, back to the original topic of Amir Johnson being a legitimate starting power forward, I definitely at this point would say yes, and I'll go a mile more and say, I wouldn't be against him being our PF of the future. Only because JV has the potential to be better, or at least as good as ALL of those guys - Gasol, Boozer, Millsap, Ilyasova, Smith - in the low post.

  8. #128
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    There's a COMPLETE difference, from putting the ball in his hands at the perimeter, and asking him to create with his back to the basket from there, compared to a team utilizing a play to get the player into their set spot. That should have been noticed before saying he can't post up Felton. A LOW POST/INSIDE presence, doesn't create with their back to the basket from the perimeter.

    I don't think Gay is a jump shooter, if anything, he's a shot creator, because with using LAST NIGHT as an example, he attacked the rim, WHEN he got his opportunities with his back to the basket, he was able to get easy shots. Problem was, he struggled to get them in.

    Anyways, back to the original topic of Amir Johnson being a legitimate starting power forward, I definitely at this point would say yes, and I'll go a mile more and say, I wouldn't be against him being our PF of the future. Only because JV has the potential to be better, or at least as good as ALL of those guys - Gasol, Boozer, Millsap, Ilyasova, Smith - in the low post.
    The reason I'm so high on Ilyasova is I see him as the stretch 4 version of Amir....so in the end I wouldn't care who starts between them. It would give me the ideal combination of 2 different hustle players. Casey could handle them however he wants, they'd both get good minutes, fit well with each other and JV. You would always be strong on the glass/D and have a variety of options at both ends while never being that small. And I agree, JV has the potential and should end up being the best of all 3, so while getting another post player might be nice, it's not really that important in the long run.

  9. #129
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The reason I'm so high on Ilyasova is I see him as the stretch 4 version of Amir....so in the end I wouldn't care who starts between them. It would give me the ideal combination of 2 different hustle players. Casey could handle them however he wants, they'd both get good minutes, fit well with each other and JV. You would always be strong on the glass/D and have a variety of options at both ends while never being that small.
    I agree. As much as I like Amir, and don't mind him being the future power forward, he's better suited off the bench, because Ilyasova brings just as much rebounding, energy, and better offense. While Amir can bring in his non-stop motor, defensive anchor-abilities, and offensive rebounding to spark a game.

  10. #130
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I agree. As much as I like Amir, and don't mind him being the future power forward, he's better suited off the bench, because Ilyasova brings just as much rebounding, energy, and better offense. While Amir can bring in his non-stop motor, defensive anchor-abilities, and offensive rebounding to spark a game.
    And as much as we all love Amir, and so does Casey, you know he likes the option of bringing off the bench to avoid those 2 quick fouls. Again, there's nothing to stop him from starting Amir over Ilyasova if it really makes more sense for the matchup, just like he started Fields over Amir last night to get the matchup against Melo. Flexibility is a good thing, and when all your other starters are locked in, might as well come at the PF spot.

  11. #131
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    And as much as we all love Amir, and so does Casey, you know he likes the option of bringing off the bench to avoid those 2 quick fouls. Again, there's nothing to stop him from starting Amir over Ilyasova if it really makes more sense for the matchup, just like he started Fields over Amir last night to get the matchup against Melo. Flexibility is a good thing, and when all your other starters are locked in, might as well come at the PF spot.
    +1. The NBA is a match-up league now, it's gone far from trying to get a player to fill each position traditionally, to acquiring players that suit the style of the team's play. Ilyasova definitely fits here with or versatile players and rotations. We also have the pieces to go traditionally (which is what our consensus starting lineup is right now).

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