View Poll Results: Should the Raptors trade for Gasol given the opportunity?

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    32 66.67%
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Thread: Have we entered an alternate universe? Are the Raptors buyers?

  1. #141
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    No thanks to all those names. Jefferson, Milsap, Smith are definitely guys I consider.

    No Boozer (old, long contract), no Gasol (same as Boozer), and no Ilyasova (tweener, no need for another SF) please and thank you.

    Give me a TRUE big that can play the power forward position.

  2. #142
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't know, this all feels like it goes around in circles....Some days, some people want a true big who can play in the post and guard bigs...some days, it's a stretch 4 to replace Bargnani....

    I really think there is only one option that satisfies both, and that's Millsap. He can shoot and score in the paint, he's big enough to guard 4s (though too short for 5s) in terms of strength....

    Anybody else would lead to inevitable tradeoffs....I'm not sold on Boozer anymore. If we're going to get a guy who can't really guard 5s well, I would prefer a guy who can shoot, like Millsap or Ilyasova. I'm also not sure why we'd get Jefferson. I don't think I'm the only one who assumes there's a 0% chance of him re-signing. Then you get to a big like Gasol or Gortat, who would be great bigs for a year or so as JV grows into the game...but then we'd lack a stretch 4 badly. Basically if the team is forced to play small, Gay will have to play lots of minutes at PF....there's something to be said about having a big like Ilyasova, Bargs or Ryan Andersen these days...someone who can play or steal minutes during small ball because of their range and passable man D (man D, always just the man D).

    *also, just like Al, I'm not sure why Millsap would want to re-sign here, but I think it's a much higher chance than Jefferson. Millsap is going to be heavily pursued this summer, and I have no clue what'll be the deciding factor. It may be money, but I'm not sure what his going rate will be...$11? $12 million per year??? more?

  3. #143
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    No thanks to Ilysova. A contract year wonder, who doesn't have much post-up game.
    He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

    I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  4. #144
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    With any of these pending UFAs, it would be a gamble to hope that you can use bird rights to resign them in the summer. That's a risk I might take, depending on the cost to us.

    Let's say the Raptors trade for Millsap now, with the intention of signing him for $12 million in the offseason. A lot of that has to do with how few teams will be far enough under the cap to sign these guys. If the cap stays at $58 million, and the luxury tax stays at $70 million, and the apron stays at $74 million, the following teams are far enough under the cap to make a $12 million signing without a sign-and-trade:
    Clippers (if they don't resign Paul)
    Spurs (if they don't resign Ginobli)
    Philadelphia (if they don't resign Bynum)
    Cleveland
    Detroit
    Atlanta
    Utah
    Milwaukee
    New Orleans
    Sacramento
    Charlotte
    Houston

    Of these teams, Utah, Detroit, and New Orleans are definitely not looking for a starting PF. Clippers and Spurs probably make internal signing that take themselves out of the running. That means Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, and Houston are the teams that might be in the market for his services. I'd say that Cleveland, Houston, and maybe Atlanta are the only ones that are arguably more desirable destinations than Toronto. Given that there's a whole host of free agent big men on the market, there's a reasonable chance that any of those teams go with other options.
    If Millsap does not want to stay in Toronto, there are several more teams that could acquire Millsap using a sign-and-trade... places that couldn't sign Millsap under the cap, but could fit him within their apron such as Minnesota, Phoenix, Dallas, Indiana if they don't resign West, etc... infact anyone currently under the apron of $74 million, provided they're willing to send back matching salary. In a worst-case scenario where Millsap doesn't resign with us, there's a reasonable chance that we'd be able to get something back for him via a sign-and-trade.
    So with all that in mind, I don't hate the idea of trading for one of these big UFAs now and taking our chances at retaining them over the summer.

  5. #145
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    With any of these pending UFAs, it would be a gamble to hope that you can use bird rights to resign them in the summer. That's a risk I might take, depending on the cost to us.

    Let's say the Raptors trade for Millsap now, with the intention of signing him for $12 million in the offseason. A lot of that has to do with how few teams will be far enough under the cap to sign these guys. If the cap stays at $58 million, and the luxury tax stays at $70 million, and the apron stays at $74 million, the following teams are far enough under the cap to make a $12 million signing without a sign-and-trade:
    Clippers (if they don't resign Paul)
    Spurs (if they don't resign Ginobli)
    Philadelphia (if they don't resign Bynum)
    Cleveland
    Detroit
    Atlanta
    Utah
    Milwaukee
    New Orleans
    Sacramento
    Charlotte
    Houston

    Of these teams, Utah, Detroit, and New Orleans are definitely not looking for a starting PF. Clippers and Spurs probably make internal signing that take themselves out of the running. That means Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, and Houston are the teams that might be in the market for his services. I'd say that Cleveland, Houston, and maybe Atlanta are the only ones that are arguably more desirable destinations than Toronto. Given that there's a whole host of free agent big men on the market, there's a reasonable chance that any of those teams go with other options.
    If Millsap does not want to stay in Toronto, there are several more teams that could acquire Millsap using a sign-and-trade... places that couldn't sign Millsap under the cap, but could fit him within their apron such as Minnesota, Phoenix, Dallas, Indiana if they don't resign West, etc... infact anyone currently under the apron of $74 million, provided they're willing to send back matching salary. In a worst-case scenario where Millsap doesn't resign with us, there's a reasonable chance that we'd be able to get something back for him via a sign-and-trade.
    So with all that in mind, I don't hate the idea of trading for one of these big UFAs now and taking our chances at retaining them over the summer.
    That might be all well and good but I think the issue is with the bold. What does Toronto have that Utah would want that Toronto would give up? I don't think Bargnani, Anderson, and 2nd rd picks will do it.... but then again I never though tCalderon, Davis, and a 2nd pick would land Gay.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  6. #146
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    Very true, I haven't seen any two-way trade with Utah that makes sense for them (unless DeRozan is involved, and at that point the price is too much for the risk... better to wait for a sign-and-trade in the offseason). Other teams would need to be involved. The only way I see it as possible is if there are teams out there who actually want Bargs, and the Raptors can get pieces back in such a transaction that they could flip to Utah. And I still can't get my head around what the market for Bargnani might be.

  7. #147
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

    I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.
    Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

    I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #148
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

    I would much rather stand pat and [B]go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani)[/], than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
    The problem with that approach is that even after using amnesty of Bargnani, the Raptors' team salary would be over the cap, meaning they couldn't sign Millsap; they'd still have to S&T (likely costing them DeRozan).

    That's why I'm torn. On one hand, I really like our 4 wings (Gay, DeRozan, Fields and Ross) and even like our 3 bigs (Valanciunas, Amir, Bargnani). On the other hand, I like the idea of trading DeRozan for Millsap (now or S&T in offseason), then using Bargnani to add a 4th wing and backup PG.

    I think I'm leaning towards keeping both DeRozan and Bargnani throughout the season, then figuring them both out in the offseason. Of course, if a deal comes along that's too good to pass up, don't.

  9. #149
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    I'm on board with shipping Derozan for Millsap, as long as Millsap agrees beforehand to sign an extension

  10. #150
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    *sigh* I am no longer a Derozan homer..

    <--------------------------------

  11. #151
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    *sigh* I am no longer a Derozan homer..

    <--------------------------------
    That's a big step, my friend. Welcome to the dark side
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #152
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    In all seriousness, as I start my first post as a non-Derozan homer, I would definitely be willing to trade Derozan for Millsap, ONLY if we are sure that he would re-sign in the off-season. Like a poster said above:

    We can offer
    - Money
    - Starting position at the 4

    If Millsap walks, we'll be at trouble because not only did we not re-attain the player, we sent a talent away as well. Only positive to that is we'd have 8$ million in cap freeing up. I don't know how much cap space we would have if we have 8$ million coming off the books.

  13. #153
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    That's a big step, my friend. Welcome to the dark side
    I am ashamed. BUT, I shouldn't be, because I'm a Rudy Gay homer.

  14. #154
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    In all seriousness, as I start my first post as a non-Derozan homer, I would definitely be willing to trade Derozan for Millsap, ONLY if we are sure that he would re-sign in the off-season. Like a poster said above:

    We can offer
    - Money
    - Starting position at the 4

    If Millsap walks, we'll be at trouble because not only did we not re-attain the player, we sent a talent away as well. Only positive to that is we'd have 8$ million in cap freeing up. I don't know how much cap space we would have if we have 8$ million coming off the books.
    That's just it, we'd still be over the cap if Millsap were to walk in that scenario. The only option the Raps would have would be to hope to work a S&T deal with Millsap, so they'd get something back for him (basically Toronto assumes Utah's position). That's why I think waiting for the offseason would be better, to try and use the Raptors good, young core (and a starting PF spot) as bait to lure Millsap, then work a S&T with Utah (give Utah DeRozan).

    However, the Raps would then be short a wing and still need an upgrade at backup PG, with only Bargnani and 2nd round picks as trade bait (plus they could have Kleiza, Gray and Lucas as expiring contracts, if all options are picked-up).

  15. #155
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

    I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
    Problem with that is that just amnestying Bargnani wouldn't be enough to sign Millsap. It would bring us down to about $55 million, and we'd have only $3 million of cap space, plus the 5$ MLE (which can't be combined). Not nearly enough to go after Millsap. We either need to get his bird rights now, or sign-and-trade for him in the offseason.

  16. #156
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I am ashamed. BUT, I shouldn't be, because I'm a Rudy Gay homer.
    Don't be an anything homer. Cheer when it's warranted and critique when it's warranted. No player should be off limits.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  17. #157
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    That's just it, we'd still be over the cap if Millsap were to walk in that scenario. The only option the Raps would have would be to hope to work a S&T deal with Millsap, so they'd get something back for him (basically Toronto assumes Utah's position). That's why I think waiting for the offseason would be better, to try and use the Raptors good, young core (and a starting PF spot) as bait to lure Millsap, then work a S&T with Utah (give Utah DeRozan).

    However, the Raps would then be short a wing and still need an upgrade at backup PG, with only Bargnani and 2nd round picks as trade bait (plus they could have Kleiza, Gray and Lucas as expiring contracts, if all options are picked-up).
    I expect Gray's and Lucas's options being picked up. Kleiza being amnestied. Someone (Bargnani, Anderson, Derozan, 2nd Round Picks) being traded from now, till the end of off-season.

    I would rather make a deal now in my opinion, know what you're going to deal with by the end of the season, and make your decisions based on your roster than. At this moment, nothing but rumours are coming up, and that's why I feel it's harder to elaborate on moves that need to be made in terms of addressing our roster issues. Bargnani is a question, Derozan is a core piece, but not untouchable, etc.

  18. #158
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Problem with that is that just amnestying Bargnani wouldn't be enough to sign Millsap. It would bring us down to about $55 million, and we'd have only $3 million of cap space, plus the 5$ MLE (which can't be combined). Not nearly enough to go after Millsap. We either need to get his bird rights now, or sign-and-trade for him in the offseason.
    If Bargnani is amnestied and the options on Haddadi & Lucas are declined, the Raps team salary would still be slightly over $60.6M next season, meaning they couldn't offer any contracts other than exceptions. That's assuming both Kleiza and Gray pickup their player options, which would only give the team 10 players under contract.

    Here's a good link to the Raptors' team salary: http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

  19. #159
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Don't be an anything homer. Cheer when it's warranted and critique when it's warranted. No player should be off limits.
    Eh. I'm still 17 years old, I need a favourite player. lol.

  20. #160
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

    I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.
    Thank you for some rationality. Ilyasova would basically be Bargs light, offensively, but actually a better spot up 3pt shooter. He brings better D and rebounding. 7.9 million is not crazy. I would rather have Ilyasova than a guy like Ryan Andersen as well, who brings strong scoring and rebounding, but is just awful defensively, and not very long...and makes about the same (slightly more??? I think 8 or 8.5mill??).

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

    I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
    I think you're a bit spoiled by the Gay trade. We gave up only one long-term prospect in Davis, who probably doesn't project to be as good a player as Gay, maybe if he maxes out all his potential, in the same level. Getting a trade for a player who fits what the team needs now just won't work with Utah clearly not giving up Jefferson (or Millsap) for Bargs, forgetting whether we'd have any chance/money(even with a Bargs amnesty) to sign them...add to that Gasol's injury, and I just don't see someone like Gortat being significantly better than Ilyasova. Different..but it's not like he would be a major threat in the low post, just a competent one.

    I don't understand the Ilyasova is a SF talk...he's at least 6'10 out there, and long, and been forced to play SF in Milwaukee where they have way too many bigs and not enough wings. He has good energy, rebounds, plays solid D, is long enough to guard anyone not a true C, and gives the offensive skill set this team will probably need more than a low-post presence going forward. This also has to consider the fact that there are very few good low-post players in the league..Gasol(s), Cousins, Jefferson, R Lopez, Bynum, Randolph...the trend here is that these are pretty much all all-star level talents, and salaries, and would be very difficult to acquire. Josh Smith is not really a low-post threat. Millsap is solid, but he also plays a lot of face up game from the high post and perimeter. We probably can't afford any of these players in any way...not free agency, not through trades without gutting our team.

    Gortat is a realistic option as a competent stopgap until JV develops. As is a guy like Pekovic...but then after next year, with JV and Amir still on the roster, the thing we'd need most to add would be a stretch PF who defends and rebounds....why not do that now?? The most sensible other option for trading Bargs I think, is to do what I just mentioned, maybe try and get Peko and Ridnour from Minny....but htey have no need for Bargs with Love there...that's a terrible fit for them. I would be ok going into next season with Amir sliding to C against smaller teams, and Gray still around for situational reasons, if we got a guy like Ilyasova to play 25-30 minutes a night. He would fit in well as a role player with this current core as it grows.

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