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Thread: To trade or not to trade?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie Bears's Avatar
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    Default To trade or not to trade?

    First, let me say that I've enjoyed reading many of your posts as I've trolled this website on-off over the past two seasons. I think it's about time for me to jump in and joint the party! I know many have already discussed it, but now that AB is back, I figured I'd stir the pot (some more).

    From the Raptors point of view, it's best that AB comes back healthy and playing well. To trade or not to trade is the question. The answer though, may not be that easy.

    You first need to ask yourself, why do you want to trade AB? Most argue that the Raps play better without him as evident by Raps record with/without Bargnani. Others will point out that he is a low efficiency/high volume scorer, ball stopper, poor rebounder, average passer, average man-defender, and a poor help-defender. Some say he doesn't have the intangibles and hustle of an elite competitor. Others will point to his "bad-contract" and implication on cap-space. Some go further and envisoin him alongside Lowry/Derozan/Gay and picture a stagnant "perimeter-chuckers" offence.

    Then you need to ask yourself, why keep AB? Arguments include the fact that the blame for the Raps early struggles should be diffused over an entire team rather than a single player. Some will remind us of 13-game AB of 2011-2012 season and that he is yet to tap into his "full-potential". That his potential is limited by what's going on above his collar bones. Many believe that he may be a potent offensive weapon in the "right-system". That he is a "unique talent", a 7 footer that can score inside-outside and create his own shot. Many argue that his "value" at this point of his career could not be any lower and any return for him would be minimal. Some will go as far as to say he can't be traded without giving up even more assets in the process due to his "bad-contract", the so called - addition by subtraction.

    Just to be clear, I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with the above, but simply summarizing the sentiment amongst the majority of Raptors-bloggers. My personal opinion is that AB's value should be maximized before the decision, to trade or not, is made. The Raptors don't have any "untouchable" player in a trade. Even the Raps most coveted asset, Valanciunas, is not truly untouchable (would you say no to JV for LeBron James?) The point is, there is not one Raptor I wouldn't trade if the return for the trade is of equal or better value, and that includes AB. So if you have an asset, why not optimize its value before you consider trading it? The concept of trading AB for the sake of trading him (addition by subtraction) is a tad foolish. I would much rather see AB come off the bench for 20-26 min/game (this point is key!) with a bigs rotation of JV/AJ/AB with occasional minutes for Gray. AB's defence would be tested against opposing team's bench and his offence would be welcomed off the bench; especially considering that Fields/Anderson/Acy all get minutes at the 4. AB's minutes may be expanded only if he is a positive contributor (again, this is key!)

    One of four scenarios would then unfold in the next 3 weeks: (1) AB integrates well with the team and he embraces his new role becoming a reliable scoring big off the bench (Amare in NY) and he stays in a Raps uniform. (2) AB plays well off the bench, attracts better offers, and a "good-value" trade is made. (3) AB is no better than he was pre-injury, his value doesn't improve, no reasonable offer is made, and he stays in a Raps uniform in hopes he would improve his value by the end of the season (4) AB is no better and doesn't embrace his new role, becoming a "bad-locker room guy" and he is traded for the best of the bad offers.

    Ideally, scenario (1) or (2) unfold, both hinge on the fact that he return healthy and plays well. Personally, I would prefer scenario (2) for the simple reason that I think I'm emotionally fatigued with the AB-era. To be fair to AB, in actuality its the BC-era that has been emotionally draining; unfortunately for AB, he's the face of it.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    3 & 4 = amnesty

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    I just lost the little respect i had left for you...

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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I just lost the little respect i had left for you...
    +1

    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    -1

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    #tradeBargnani.

    The sooner the better.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    You dd watch Lithuania games right Val runs the floor he can handle up tempo and before injury he was almost averaging a double double and was great helping us to that 7 game winstreak.

    JV is awesome, when he gets mor experience and adds bulk and strength to his body hes going to be legit relax he just a 20 year kid atm.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    i just spit my breakfast out all over the place!!

  9. #9
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    Scenario 2 is best of course but will require Bargnani to take it the right way and prove people wrong. At a time when he's the center of a lot of criticism which has probably led to his confidence being low, chances of it happening are 50-50. IMO the best thing to do is trade him as soon as possible. In his time in the NBA, despite his drawbacks, he has established a reasonably good reputation. I think that based on what he's established for himself, there's a market out there for him. BC may have said that trade talks for him did take place until he got injured which doesn't mean that they are going to trade him and all that. Usually when BC comes out and mentions such a thing the player gets traded. So I have a feeling that Bargnani is spending his last days as a Raptor.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    He needs to go regardless of how "well" he plays when he comes back. The sooner the better.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I just lost the little respect i had left for you...
    lmao. he looks lost out there. he needs a pg who will get him the ball
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Rookie Bears's Avatar
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    Quote OzRapFan wrote: View Post
    3 & 4 = amnesty
    Amnesty is useful if there is another player the raps want to sign that would put them over the tax limit ... ps wouldn't you amnesty Kleiza first?


    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    #tradeBargnani.

    The sooner the better.
    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    He needs to go regardless of how "well" he plays when he comes back. The sooner the better.
    I understand where you're both coming from. I do understand the frustration that everyone has had with AB but to just trade him for the sake of trading? It's not like he's a cancer on the team. He's not a "bad-presence". To me this is more of an emotional rather than a rational solution to the problem.

    Let me put it to you this way: Say Joe Blow went out and bought a house for one million, then found it had multiple construction flaws and it was now really worth 250K. The Million would be considered "sunk cost" (money you spent and you can't get it back). Would you just sell the house for 250K and cut your losses at 750K? Or do you try to maximize it's value by doing some renovations and repairs and sell it with a net 500K loss? We can all appreciate that we've already spent a 1st overall pick, multiple losing seasons, and 50 million dollars on AB (all sunk cost). It's now a matter getting as much out of him as you can on a trade. That's all I'm trying to say. That said, I can appreciate where you're coming from.
    Last edited by Bears; Mon Feb 4th, 2013 at 02:09 AM.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    It's a good analogy except to use Bargnani in that analogy, it's a part of the house that has mildew growing inside the drywall, and the only way to get rid of the mildew is to burn that part of the house down. If you let it sit there, the mildew will spread to the rest of the house.

    You said he's not a cancer to the team, but I say the only reason for that is because he's injured. He may not be a cancer in the traditional sense of the word -- that is he's not a bad boy, he's not saying bad things about his teammates or coach, but in every other sense of the word he is exactly that -- a cancer. When you have cancer in one area of your body, the rest of the body has to work extra hard to keep you alive. When you take chemo, your liver takes a beating. Same thing applies here. When you have your PF not caring, not defending, not rebounding that means every other guy has to do a little bit extra to make up for him. That causes other areas in their game to break down.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It's a good analogy except to use Bargnani in that analogy, it's a part of the house that has mildew growing inside the drywall, and the only way to get rid of the mildew is to burn that part of the house down. If you let it sit there, the mildew will spread to the rest of the house.

    You said he's not a cancer to the team, but I say the only reason for that is because he's injured. He may not be a cancer in the traditional sense of the word -- that is he's not a bad boy, he's not saying bad things about his teammates or coach, but in every other sense of the word he is exactly that -- a cancer. When you have cancer in one area of your body, the rest of the body has to work extra hard to keep you alive. When you take chemo, your liver takes a beating. Same thing applies here. When you have your PF not caring, not defending, not rebounding that means every other guy has to do a little bit extra to make up for him. That causes other areas in their game to break down.
    Burning it down might be a bit excessive.

    I would definitely cut out and replace any area with a trace of mold and an extra foot just for good measure. So relating this to Bargnani, he should be cut out (or traded) and anyone who sat next to him on the bench also needs to go
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    lmao. he looks lost out there. he needs a pg who will get him the ball
    He's a rookie for god sake. The dude has a tremendous amount of talent and he is going to be a huge piece when we start making playoffs runs. He's already money from 15 ft out and the FT line, there aren't many Centers these days that have that. He also has great length to be able to block and alter shots, he's going to be a beast on both ends. Better than Roy Hibbert probably

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    I would try and trade val if anything. I think he's going to be useless in the new up-tempo offense
    If so then only Spurs please
    #FREE

  17. #17
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    lmao. he looks lost out there. he needs a pg who will get him the ball
    please stop posting

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    lmao. he looks lost out there. he needs a pg who will get him the ball
    Please name me one centre who DOESN'T need a PG to get him the ball.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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