Somebody making sense. And like Matt said, time to move on. After watching Jose for seven years, I think people have forgotten that most point guards turn the ball over.PicknRoll wrote:
Somebody making sense. And like Matt said, time to move on. After watching Jose for seven years, I think people have forgotten that most point guards turn the ball over.
+1 Please everyone calderon was good but its not like he made the team that much better we gave up Calderon for a guy that can make his own shot, and provide less attention at DeRozan to play his game a lot more free flowing.
GET OFF THE CALDERON **** its the past high character guy great playmaker but come on its a good thing that we are finally making a new Raptors team. Our asisst #s are down becaue Lucas is playing main guard off the bench and those playing alongside him arent looking to set players up.
But if you could get jose back this offseason at 5-6 mill a year and trade Kyle for something of value, would you not do it?
You weren't asking me, but I'll answer the question anyway, No. It's time to move on.
I'd love Calderon back but, at 32, he's a backup/mentor; not a starter. I'd keep them both.
One game, stop panicing.
Calderon and Davis hasn't had the dimension and dynamics that Rudy Gay has had on this entire team. 8 years + 3 years? It only took Rudy Gay 2 games...
Calderon was a great character, and Ed Davis was probably the one guy who would have solved our problems in the post, but they aren't Rudy Gay.
This thread is crazy... We played the champs today and I thought they had to play at a high level to beat us. Amir being sat in the fourth was the key because we needed a mobile bog on the court to guard bosh.
I have been really encouraged by this team and anyone who thinks Calderon would have made a difference today is totally nuts.
Take a deep breath...Lowry is the guy
Yea we definitely could've used Jose today. It's too bad he had a large expiring which made him trade bait. And it just felt weird watching the game and seeing it slip away, only to think "Man Jose is gonna pull us back into it" ...only to realize he's not on the team anymore. I'd love it if we could sign him in the off-season for a lower amount. Then he can come back, be a mentor and take back the starting spot once Lowry inevitably gets injured again.
As for the team being vastly better: hell no.
And on the topic of "finally making a new Raptors team"...ummm yea...been there done that. Like 6-7 times since Colangelo took over. I'm still not sold on this trade until I see a REAL improvement in the way the TEAM plays as a whole. As it stands now we're lacking in the PG and front court positions (as everyone knows), and unless BC pulls another magic trick from his behind we will be for the foreseeable future. Rudy Gay can put up all the points he wants to but we're still at a disadvantage in every other position.
The one thing that has me thinking is whether there was any chance of Memphis taking Amir over Ed, and BC thought that keeping Amir was the safer bet.
With Jose, the Raptors play a grind it out type of game. With Lowry, the Raptors force more turnovers and get out and run. The roster balance has shifted and our roster as it stands right now with Gay and DeRozan as offensive anchors are more geared towards playing with someone like Lowry.
Yes, he doesn't run the offense like Jose, but that's not Lowry's game. On the other hand, Lowry gets boards, he pressures opposing guards and gets steals that leads to a more high-tempo offense. Jose's play making abilities didn't get us much in the fourth quarter anyway. I love Jose, but it's time to move on. We have Rudy Gay; someone who can create his own shot. Give it more time to let the team figure out how they will actually fit together.
We're still a few moves away from being a playoff calibre team. We need someone who can get his down on the block and who can work with Amir with the big to big passing; someone who again, along with Amir, can anchor our defense. We need 2 big guys. Amir is good, but we need someone with more of an impact.
We need another back-up point guard. Lucas is a scorer stuck in a 5'11" frame. He's streaky and you want someone who can steady the offense.
“I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”
-- Charles Barkley
Resign Jose Thread
All in favor say AYE
Nay. I don't want to ever have to deal with another controversy with a guy who clearly wants to be a starter, but just not talented enough. This team just doesn't have the talent to fool around with players at positions. Needs to be a clear starter, and as much as internal competition is good, there can't be any questions. This team lacks consistency.
I agree that it's time to move on without Calderon. In a way it's probably better not to go after him in the off-season 'cause it may mean re-inviting the PG controversy. Lowry is never going to dish out as many assists as Jose but the last two games he started hardly indicate his assist ability either. He is 6-7 assists guy. It's a matter of the new starting unit gelling together and they will. Actually they're doing quite well considering it's been only 2 games.
Attitude Is A Choice.
Yeah that's right. Let's give Kyle a chance!
+1. Lowry is a really good passer, but will have points where he will miss an open guy, because his main style of play is aggressiveness and penetration. Getting in the paint is the best way for this team to succeed, not dribbling for half the clock and running constant pick and rolls. The league has sort of gone away from that, and has turned into a drive and kick, swing, drive and kick, isolation type league now.
Can anyone explain to me how Kyle Lowry is different from our failed "score first point guard" experiments?
Totally understand if you have to turn away before you get to the end of this list.
Chauncey Billups
Roger Mason
Derrick Martin
Mike James
Jerrett Jack
T.J. FORD
Rafer Alston
Jerryd Bayless
Leandro Barbosa
Why is Kyle Lowry (post injury) all of a sudden going to make it all work?
Because Kyle Lowry is a lot more talented now, than all of those point guards at the stages of their careers when they were here. Billups was still being moved from team to team before he finally ended up in Detroit. Otherwise, every other guard just doesn't have the proven talent that Lowry has.
When Bayless, Jack originally came here. We pasted that they would "help Jose out", when Lowry came here, it was already "point guard for the future" or "has the keys to the car". He's been the number 1 point guard since day 1 he arrived. I honestly didn't even think it was close in terms of talent in comparing Calderon to Lowry.
P.S Barbosa is NOT a point guard. He's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. After playing a season and a half here, I would think that was pretty obvious.
EDIT* Only guy I consider near the talent level at their prime and good health to Lowry, is Ford.
Nobody said Lowry is going to make it work. Raps. have played two games since the trade so it's only fair he(Lowry) get's a chance. Starting him for the remainder of the season would give management and us fans a fair idea of wether it is working or not.
Personally, I prefer the pass first PG too. The truth is we don't have one. Trading him got us Gay. Kyle is who we have so why not give him a chance. I also should mention that the pass-first variety are rare, Majority of the PG's have been, are and will be the shoot first type. In Jose Raps. just happened to have one of the rare ones.
Attitude Is A Choice.
lowry had 8 assists last game actually.. Miami has insane perimeter D.. it wasn't just lowry that couldn't figure out what to do and how to handle the pressure.. it was everyone.. tho I do think jose would have handled it better, I don't think there are many other pg's that would or could. we are a perimeter oriented team that just matched up against the best perimeter oriented team in the league.. lets just relax... I mean we all miss jose, but we are a mismatch on the perimeter for a lot of teams... lowry doesn't have the kind of leadership we're used to in jose but its not just on him.. we passed the ball well against the clips.. and we will do it against other teams.. Miami is one of those teams that make u scared to pass.. we gotta gameplan better against them.. period.
Last edited by FoxMachine; Mon Feb 4th, 2013 at 04:52 AM.
They're still adjusting. Nothing wrong with Lowry as he's still trying to get the parts moving. Defence was an issue of the game but it was after an amped up Heat that just lost to Indiana. Not making excuses but it is what it is. The next piece coming in or out will depend on how they do in the next 2 weeks. If they do well, there might be a push to get Gasol. If they falter and continue to learn to play with each other, everyone stays put with BC going after a 10-day guy at PG. Just my 2 cents.
“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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