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Thread: SI responds to an email question about the Raps

  1. #41
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I know I'm in the minority here, but the more I think about it, the less dumping Bargs for spare parts makes sense. We all know that his value is probably limited right now, and aside from waiting to see if he improves in order to maximize his value (which is an upside-only proposition since it probably can't get much, if any, lower), I think there are some reasons to think that Bargs could actually contribute to the team.
    I agree with this, but from a different direction. I believe we need one more key piece to be a contender, probably a PF or C who'll be somewhere around Bargs' salary. But if we simply trade Bargnani for an expiring and a pick (an option I would have supported a week ago because it, combined with Calderon's expiring, would have been a lot of cap space to work with) and amnesty Kleiza, that still probably puts us only a couple million under the cap, not nearly enough to score that last piece. It's unlikely we could get anything more than the $5 million player we could pick up with the MLE. There's a good chance that amnestying Kleiza alone would allow us to use all of that MLE. So trading Bargnani for an expiring doesn't get us any further ahead (other than any throw-in pick that we get, and any supposed addition by subtraction from moving Bargnani).

    On the other hand, if we hold onto Bargnani, then we have a matching salary to move when another team has a big they want to move who might be a better fit for us. On the other hand, a sign-and-trade that helps us get a guy like Millsap or Hickson is something I'd do in a heartbeat.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    I agree with this, but from a different direction. I believe we need one more key piece to be a contender, probably a PF or C who'll be somewhere around Bargs' salary. But if we simply trade Bargnani for an expiring and a pick (an option I would have supported a week ago because it, combined with Calderon's expiring, would have been a lot of cap space to work with) and amnesty Kleiza, that still probably puts us only a couple million under the cap, not nearly enough to score that last piece. It's unlikely we could get anything more than the $5 million player we could pick up with the MLE. There's a good chance that amnestying Kleiza alone would allow us to use all of that MLE. So trading Bargnani for an expiring doesn't get us any further ahead (other than any throw-in pick that we get, and any supposed addition by subtraction from moving Bargnani).

    On the other hand, if we hold onto Bargnani, then we have a matching salary to move when another team has a big they want to move who might be a better fit for us. On the other hand, a sign-and-trade that helps us get a guy like Millsap or Hickson is something I'd do in a heartbeat.
    As of now, no sign and trade for the Raps as they are a tax team for next year.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Bargs has 2 weeks to up his value. If there's no takers or BC gets lowballed, he'll stay here until the offseason. Fans wishing that somehow getting Millsap for Bargs (involving 2 or 3 other teams) are living in an alternate universe, or smokin' really good herbs.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

    Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....
    He can [sometimes] score a lot points, which makes him AWESOME!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #45
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    They can sign and trade as long as it doesn't put them over the apron

  6. #46
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

    Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....
    I'd normally agree with you, but right now trading Bargs for scrap is utterly pointless. There is literally nothing to lose from letting him play out the season if all you can get for him is another bad contract. What do you gain from amnestying him? What do you gain from exchanging bad contracts unless you get a player back that fills a hole? The Raps are giving minutes to Gray and Acy purely out of need, not because they're great basketball players. If Bargs can outplay them for minutes, let him. If not, you have exactly the same options at the end of the season as you do right now.

    It's not really about thinking that Bargs is going to break out all of a sudden. It's about realizing that waiting to see if he can actually contribute is the only logical play. I realize fans just want to see him gone, but that's an emotional reaction that's trumping logic.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I'd normally agree with you, but right now trading Bargs for scrap is utterly pointless. There is literally nothing to lose from letting him play out the season if all you can get for him is another bad contract. What do you gain from amnestying him? What do you gain from exchanging bad contracts unless you get a player back that fills a hole? The Raps are giving minutes to Gray and Acy purely out of need, not because they're great basketball players. If Bargs can outplay them for minutes, let him. If not, you have exactly the same options at the end of the season as you do right now.

    It's not really about thinking that Bargs is going to break out all of a sudden. It's about realizing that waiting to see if he can actually contribute is the only logical play. I realize fans just want to see him gone, but that's an emotional reaction that's trumping logic.
    Agreed. Raps want Barg's gone for emotional reasons. Barg's as a tiertiary option and not the go to guy should net better results. At the end of the day, Barg's $10M isn't that bad when you consider what most big men make if they show some talent. Javale Mcgee at $10M or Barg's at $10M? Not all that out there for a big man. Let him try out his new role and treat him appropriately (aka - don't give him minutes just because, make him earn them)
    F*ck Brooklyn

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I'd normally agree with you, but right now trading Bargs for scrap is utterly pointless. There is literally nothing to lose from letting him play out the season if all you can get for him is another bad contract. What do you gain from amnestying him? What do you gain from exchanging bad contracts unless you get a player back that fills a hole? The Raps are giving minutes to Gray and Acy purely out of need, not because they're great basketball players. If Bargs can outplay them for minutes, let him. If not, you have exactly the same options at the end of the season as you do right now.

    It's not really about thinking that Bargs is going to break out all of a sudden. It's about realizing that waiting to see if he can actually contribute is the only logical play. I realize fans just want to see him gone, but that's an emotional reaction that's trumping logic.
    Well I'll point out my comment wasn't about 'letting things play out'. Its about the number of people who are talking about trying to find way to make him fit, asking "what ifs" should he improve etc.

    That said, I think there are numerous reason to move him in short order. Although I agree not for another long term bad contract (as I've said many times before any deal for Bargnani shouldn't be for anything less than what amnestying him offers).

    I also completely disagree with the statement that its for "emotional reasons". There are plent of practical purposes to trading him, even for pennies on the dollar. Something is better than nothing, and there is a real possibility his stock hasn't stopped dropping or won't improve. Its also not improbable that him losing his starting role or playing time could lead to other internal problems. Waiting to see if he can actually contribute is NOT the only logical play. Its one play, but not the only logical one. I think that in and of itself, while maybe not an emotional reason, is faulty reasoning.

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