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Thread: Blessing in Disguise?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    K-Love in a raps uniform...

    Lowry
    Ross
    Rudy
    K-Love
    Val

    I think K-love and Paul Milsap are the only trades I would consider with Demar in them. Id really hope for Ridnour to come back with that deal and we would be set for a championship run.
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  2. #42
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    And its possible because Bargs will take up that stretch 4 position, and Demar is as close to an elite wing as Minny will find.
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  3. #43
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    Demar wont be dealt, he's too valuable for us to deal with him now.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Pretty sure If Gay and Demar keep up this electric play we have seen (and why wouldnt they) thete is no way in Hell Colangelo is going to break that up all of you want Demar gone sure but you dontsee the reprocussion of losing him. The guy can score, Gay, DeRozan and Ross can turn into the one of the biggest wing threats in the league come 3 years from now.

    PFs are a dime a dozen a scoing threat in the form of DeRozan not so much. Focus on the problem and the problem is Bargnani
    This team is precariously close to being a luxury tax team and needs to upgrade the starting PF and backup PG spots. Bargnani is not a valuable enough asset to achieve this alone. The wing spot is set even without DeRozan, with Gay/Ross/Fields.

    There is no hate for DeRozan and it's not a matter of wanting him gone. It's a matter of being realistic about the team's finances, strengths and weaknesses, then turning 2 high-priced secondary players (Bargnani & DeRozan) into a star starting PF (Love) and solid veteran backup PG (Ridnour).

    I would take Love & Gay & Fields starting PF/SF/SG with Ross & Johnson off the bench, over Johnson & Gay & DeRozan starting with Bargnani & Ross & Fields off the bench. You have to give up talent to get talent... and I think Love > Bargnani & DeRozan, especially with the financial savings it would represent as well.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6th, 2013 at 11:48 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

    I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

    I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

    Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
    LOVE this proposal. Anyone who sees Dalembert as crap doesn't know squat about ball. He's a great backup that can still block and rebound. Anything to get Millsap here would be great. Milwaukee would love to jump at this to keep Jennings around! Love this!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  6. #46
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Pretty sure If Gay and Demar keep up this electric play we have seen (and why wouldnt they) thete is no way in Hell Colangelo is going to break that up all of you want Demar gone sure but you dontsee the reprocussion of losing him. The guy can score, Gay, DeRozan and Ross can turn into the one of the biggest wing threats in the league come 3 years from now.

    PFs are a dime a dozen a scoing threat in the form of DeRozan not so much. Focus on the problem and the problem is Bargnani
    If this is in the context of getting Kevin Love or even a PF like Milsap....I can't disagree with you more.

    I still believe that Ross will become a better player than Derozan (defense being a huge factor). You already have Fields as well who can fill that void, meaning, we lose nothing by trading Derozan.

    Ultimately, if we're talking about a decision that comes down to Derozan for Love/Milsap you would have to be on crack not to do that

  7. #47
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    This team is precariously close to being a luxury tax team and needs to upgrade the starting PF and backup PG spots. Bargnani is not a valuable enough asset to achieve this alone. The wing spot is set even without DeRozan, with Gay/Ross/Fields.

    There is no hate for DeRozan and it's not a matter of wanting him gone. It's a matter of being realistic about the team's finances, strengths and weaknesses, then turning 2 high-priced secondary players (Bargnani & DeRozan) into a star starting PF (Love) and solid veteran backup PG (Ridnour).

    I would take Love & Gay & Fields starting PF/SF/SG with Ross & Johnson off the bench, over Johnson & Gay & DeRozan starting with Bargnani & Ross & Fields off the bench. You have to give up talent to get talent... and I think Love > Bargnani & DeRozan, especially with the financial savings it would represent as well.
    +1 that's a better way of putting what I just said

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    If this is in the context of getting Kevin Love or even a PF like Milsap....I can't disagree with you more.

    I still believe that Ross will become a better player than Derozan (defense being a huge factor). You already have Fields as well who can fill that void, meaning, we lose nothing by trading Derozan.

    Ultimately, if we're talking about a decision that comes down to Derozan for Love/Milsap you would have to be on crack not to do that
    Agreed.

    If Toronto could negotiate with OKC to remove the conditions on the pick and just let OKC take their 2013 1st round pick (unprotected) - and such negotiations have been done before - then Toronto could actually trade future 1st round picks immediately and not have to wait for the offseason.

    Here's one such trade idea: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=am989op
    * it would still work even if Roy wasn't included

    Toronto would send 2 1st round picks to Minnesota and Minnesota would send a 1st round pick (may or may not be from Toronto) to the Lakers.

  9. #49
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    Wait are you really saying Fields can Fill DeRozan's shoes? ... Besides Milsa the other players mentioned have health issues K Love has been out a majority of this season and last season no knock on his talent besides him being a headcase at times as well, Not to mention he is a nightmare on the defensive end he lets anyone he is guarding get anything they want has back spasms every other week K love is good great even but his health should be a major concern.

    Barganai and Fields are taking up a lot of money its a must they move by Summer time. There will be oppurtune moments of shedding money soon, shredding our offense isnt a good one.

  10. #50
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Agreed.

    If Toronto could negotiate with OKC to remove the conditions on the pick and just let OKC take their 2013 1st round pick (unprotected) - and such negotiations have been done before - then Toronto could actually trade future 1st round picks immediately and not have to wait for the offseason.

    Here's one such trade idea: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=am989op
    * it would still work even if Roy wasn't included

    Toronto would send 2 1st round picks to Minnesota and Minnesota would send a 1st round pick (may or may not be from Toronto) to the Lakers.
    That's actually reasonable.....although I think the Lakers would need some more incentive since they are getting arguably the worst players in the deal

  11. #51
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

    I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

    I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

    Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
    I would only trade DD for an all-star and none of the players you have coming back are all-stars. Worse, they can all walk at the end of the season and we'd be left with nothing -- (thumbs down)

    What's with some of the Raptor fans' obsession with trading Demar Derozan (23 years old)?? I just dont get it!! He's clearly a good player and is also clearly improving. He is ONLY less than a year and a half older than Terrance Ross (22 years old).... AND is better than Ross RIGHT NOW....It would be total Madness to trade demar RIGHT NOW (Rudy Gay said he's the best SG he's ever played with)

    Demar is improving every facet of his game.....from passing, rebounding, and his handles. He and Gay has the potential to be one of the top SG/SF tandems in the league behind Lebron and Wade.

    Why not let TRoss blossom as a 6th man for now (like James Harden did)?? He's on a rookie contract for the forseeable future..... what is the rush in getting rid of DD??

    Lets see how Andrea plays for the next couple weeks and then see how our team looks....

  12. #52
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Wait are you really saying Fields can Fill DeRozan's shoes? ... Besides Milsa the other players mentioned have health issues K Love has been out a majority of this season and last season no knock on his talent besides him being a headcase at times as well, Not to mention he is a nightmare on the defensive end he lets anyone he is guarding get anything they want has back spasms every other week K love is good great even but his health should be a major concern.

    Barganai and Fields are taking up a lot of money its a must they move by Summer time. There will be oppurtune moments of shedding money soon, shredding our offense isnt a good one.
    No I'm saying that Derozan shoes are EASILY filled by a combination of Ross and Fields. They are both more consistent defensively..and Ross (as well as other guys on the team) can make up the remaining PPG

  13. #53
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Wait are you really saying Fields can Fill DeRozan's shoes? ... Besides Milsa the other players mentioned have health issues K Love has been out a majority of this season and last season no knock on his talent besides him being a headcase at times as well, Not to mention he is a nightmare on the defensive end he lets anyone he is guarding get anything they want has back spasms every other week K love is good great even but his health should be a major concern.

    Barganai and Fields are taking up a lot of money its a must they move by Summer time. There will be oppurtune moments of shedding money soon, shredding our offense isnt a good one.
    If the Raptors had a starting lineup of Valanciunas, Love, Gay, Fields and Lowry, they wouldn't need the additional scoring that DeRozan would provide instead of Fields. Gay, Love and Lowry would be the top-3 scoring options. Fields moves well on offense (as opposed to the pylon DeRozan who barely moves until he has the ball), plays good defense and rebounds, which would provide better balance in the starting unit. Fields wouldn't require a significant number of touches like DeRozan would, so he's better suited to be a 4th option.

    The bench would still be strong with Johnson (3rd big), Ross (3rd wing) and Ridnour (backup PG), giving the team a solid 8-man rotation. Ridnour (31) would be the only player older than 26, meaning the 7 core players would have years to grow and play together!

  14. #54
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors had a starting lineup of Valanciunas, Love, Gay, Fields and Lowry, they wouldn't need the additional scoring that DeRozan would provide instead of Fields. Gay, Love and Lowry would be the top-3 scoring options. Fields moves well on offense (as opposed to the pylon DeRozan who barely moves until he has the ball), plays good defense and rebounds, which would provide better balance in the starting unit. Fields wouldn't require a significant number of touches like DeRozan would, so he's better suited to be a 4th option.

    The bench would still be strong with Johnson (3rd big), Ross (3rd wing) and Ridnour (backup PG), giving the team a solid 8-man rotation. Ridnour (31) would be the only player older than 26, meaning the 7 core players would have years to grow and play together!
    If only it were that easy...

  15. #55
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I would only trade DD for an all-star and none of the players you have coming back are all-stars. Worse, they can all walk at the end of the season and we'd be left with nothing -- (thumbs down)

    What's with some of the Raptor fans' obsession with trading Demar Derozan (23 years old)?? I just dont get it!! He's clearly a good player and is also clearly improving. He is ONLY less than a year and a half older than Terrance Ross (22 years old).... AND is better than Ross RIGHT NOW....It would be total Madness to trade demar RIGHT NOW (Rudy Gay said he's the best SG he's ever played with)

    Demar is improving every facet of his game.....from passing, rebounding, and his handles. He and Gay has the potential to be one of the top SG/SF tandems in the league behind Lebron and Wade.

    Why not let TRoss blossom as a 6th man for now (like James Harden did)?? He's on a rookie contract for the forseeable future..... what is the rush in getting rid of DD??

    Lets see how Andrea plays for the next couple weeks and then see how our team looks....
    Let me get this straight, you'd only trade a non-all star and probably never will be (DD) for an all star? Huh? As for wanting to trade him? Well, here are my reasons (my own opinion):

    1. BC can sell high. Demar is a good kid and was rewarded with a decent extension (personally I don't think he'll live up to it).

    2. There's Ross (self-explanatory).

    3. Fields is a superior rebounder and defender. Once his bloated contract expires, Ross takes over.

    4. BC won't make this happen without assurances from Millsap that he'll sign an extension.

    5. Both Dalembert and Tinsley are only for this year. Not long term, never will be.

    6. Demar's game improving? Hmmm, his scoring was never in doubt but his ability to finish at the rim and by god, his dribbling? Wow. How many times did he lose the ball, or got stripped, etc? If I had a penny for everytime he lost the ball... wait a minute, there's no more pennies. Whatever. Sell high. Gay got reunited with his friend, Demar deserves to be with his boy in Jennings.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Let me get this straight, you'd only trade a non-all star and probably never will be (DD) for an all star? Huh? As for wanting to trade him? Well, here are my reasons (my own opinion):

    1. BC can sell high. Demar is a good kid and was rewarded with a decent extension (personally I don't think he'll live up to it).

    2. There's Ross (self-explanatory).

    3. Fields is a superior rebounder and defender. Once his bloated contract expires, Ross takes over.

    4. BC won't make this happen without assurances from Millsap that he'll sign an extension.

    5. Both Dalembert and Tinsley are only for this year. Not long term, never will be.

    6. Demar's game improving? Hmmm, his scoring was never in doubt but his ability to finish at the rim and by god, his dribbling? Wow. How many times did he lose the ball, or got stripped, etc? If I had a penny for everytime he lost the ball... wait a minute, there's no more pennies. Whatever. Sell high. Gay got reunited with his friend, Demar deserves to be with his boy in Jennings.
    +1
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    If DeRozan never learned how to dribble in high school, there's very little chance of it happening now.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    No I'm saying that Derozan shoes are EASILY filled by a combination of Ross and Fields. They are both more consistent defensively..and Ross (as well as other guys on the team) can make up the remaining PPG
    Ross is not ready.... its pretty obvious or else AA wouldnt be stealing his minutes. Fields?? Your joking right? LOL

    Raptor fans have got to be the most delusional fans out there..... WOW

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors had a starting lineup of Valanciunas, Love, Gay, Fields and Lowry, they wouldn't need the additional scoring that DeRozan would provide instead of Fields. Gay, Love and Lowry would be the top-3 scoring options. Fields moves well on offense (as opposed to the pylon DeRozan who barely moves until he has the ball), plays good defense and rebounds, which would provide better balance in the starting unit. Fields wouldn't require a significant number of touches like DeRozan would, so he's better suited to be a 4th option.

    The bench would still be strong with Johnson (3rd big), Ross (3rd wing) and Ridnour (backup PG), giving the team a solid 8-man rotation. Ridnour (31) would be the only player older than 26, meaning the 7 core players would have years to grow and play together!
    Delusions.... we are not getting Love for DD and AB.... wake up dude!

    p.s. Derozan >>>>Fields.... its actually funny that you think he can replace DD ....lol

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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Delusions.... we are not getting Love for DD and AB.... wake up dude!

    p.s. Derozan >>>>Fields.... its actually funny that you think he can replace DD ....lol
    I stated in my original post on the subject that I knew it was highly doubtful, but it was just thinking through an idea posed by another poster. However, we have no idea what value Minnesota (or any other team) would place on a package of DeRozan, Bargnani and 2 1st round picks - not me and not you.

    Not once did anybody ever argue that Fields was a better player than DeRozan. The point being made was that IF DeRozan was part of a package deal to land a starting PF of Love's caliber, the wing position would still be strong with Gay/Fields/Ross. The other point being made was that in a lineup featuring Gay/Love/Lowry, there would be enough scoring that the SG wouldn't be required to score as much as it is now - ie: improved offensive movement, perimiter defense and rebounding (Fields) would provide better balance to the starting unit than yet another scorer who demands lots of touches (DeRozan).

    The whole idea of the brainstorming was to realize that in order to land a star PF, it is very likely that more talent than Bargnani is going to have to be sacrificed. Given the strength/depth of the wing positions, the team's financial situation and the perceived value of the various wing options, it makes logical sense that DeRozan would be the most likely to be traded (Gay isn't going anywhere, Fields' contract is too high and Ross is 'untouchable'). You have to giveup talent to get talent, so in this case it's a matter of Love & Fields/Ross >>> Bargnani & DeRozan.

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