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  • #16
    I think we should see how Bargs plays. Maybe Gay will have a good effect on him, and he'll play well and return to form? LOL.

    I'm just delusional also.

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    • #17
      Even if we can't get a solid PF like Milsap, we still need to add another big to our bench to replace Ed and likely Andrea. Just looking at box scores from last night and Samuel Dalembert took 21 shots in 27 minutes off the bench. I can only imagine the Bucks are trying to inflate his stats in order to make a trade. He'd be a upgrade over Gray, but not sure what his contract is like right now and if it would be worth it.

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      • #18
        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
        Even if we can't get a solid PF like Milsap, we still need to add another big to our bench to replace Ed and likely Andrea. Just looking at box scores from last night and Samuel Dalembert took 21 shots in 27 minutes off the bench. I can only imagine the Bucks are trying to inflate his stats in order to make a trade. He'd be a upgrade over Gray, but not sure what his contract is like right now and if it would be worth it.
        No to Dalembert...please, God, no.....He's more athletic than Gray, he's also a complete dumbass who hasn't been able to stick with any team because he refuses to play hard consistently, and by refuse I mean it's clearly partly intentional because he gets to whining about his lack of touches everywhere....I'd take Gray over Dalembert any day of the week. Dalembert has the talent of a starter and plays down to being a 3rd stringer....Gray has the talent of a 3rd stringer and plays up to being a starter if need be....

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        • #19
          Mediumcore wrote: View Post
          Even if we can't get a solid PF like Milsap, we still need to add another big to our bench to replace Ed and likely Andrea. Just looking at box scores from last night and Samuel Dalembert took 21 shots in 27 minutes off the bench. I can only imagine the Bucks are trying to inflate his stats in order to make a trade. He'd be a upgrade over Gray, but not sure what his contract is like right now and if it would be worth it.
          Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

          I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

          I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
          http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

          Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.

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          • #20
            I don't really see the obcession of trading i wanna see what he can as a 3r option for the remainder of the year and then make a decision before the draft and for all of u who want milsap what if he leave at the end of the year the what we back in the same place no andrea personnaly went we aquire gay i automatically said he need to go and then i tought what if we let him be the 3rd wheel for the remaining game its not like were winning a title neways so

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            • #21
              planetmars wrote: View Post
              Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

              I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

              I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
              http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

              Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
              I don't think we need a backup C and PF, probably just one or the other.

              Next year, I envision a front court rotation of [new guy, Jonas and Amir]. I don't like the idea of going 4-deep in the front court.

              My ideal rotation involves the 5 starters, a backup PG, a backup wing, and a backup big (and maybe a utility player for situational purposes). I prefer short 8-9 man rotations.

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              • #22
                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                I don't think we need a backup C and PF, probably just one or the other.

                Next year, I envision a front court rotation of [new guy, Jonas and Amir]. I don't like the idea of going 4-deep in the front court.

                My ideal rotation involves the 5 starters, a backup PG, a backup wing, and a backup big (and maybe a utility player for situational purposes). I prefer short 8-9 man rotations.
                Ideally I would like an 8-9 man rotation too.. I just don't think JV is quite ready to be a rotational piece next year. In his 3rd year definitely, but he still has a lot of strength to gain and I don't quite see him developing fast enough to not have a 4th big in the rotation.

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                • #23
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  No to Dalembert...please, God, no.....He's more athletic than Gray, he's also a complete dumbass who hasn't been able to stick with any team because he refuses to play hard consistently, and by refuse I mean it's clearly partly intentional because he gets to whining about his lack of touches everywhere....I'd take Gray over Dalembert any day of the week. Dalembert has the talent of a starter and plays down to being a 3rd stringer....Gray has the talent of a 3rd stringer and plays up to being a starter if need be....
                  You raise good points about Dalemberts attitude. Still, it would have been nice to see Leo squirm during interviews

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

                    I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

                    I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
                    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

                    Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
                    I really like that trade proposal, but I think for the Bucks to bite on it we would have figure out a way to do it without Bargnani. Every which way I look at it I just don't see anyone wanting to take Bargs with that contract of his and the only option might be to amnesty him. With regards to resigning ... I would only be concerned with Milsap. Back up PG's are a dime a dozen and Dalembert is as solid as it gets as a back up big man, but as White Men Can't Jump pointed out, he may not be the best locker room guy.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      planetmars wrote: View Post
                      Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

                      I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

                      I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
                      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

                      Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
                      Horrible trade. Dalembert and Tinsley are crap....bigger crap than Bargs by so much. You're basically trading Demar and Bargs for Millsap...Add to that Millsap could easily walk, and you're basically giving away Bargs and Demar for a slim chance to re-sign Millsap. This trade basically means that in addition to a PF hole, and backup big, you will now also have a hole at wing (because you need 4 wings, so Gay, Demar, Ross and Fields is solid).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        I don't think we need a backup C and PF, probably just one or the other.

                        Next year, I envision a front court rotation of [new guy, Jonas and Amir]. I don't like the idea of going 4-deep in the front court.

                        My ideal rotation involves the 5 starters, a backup PG, a backup wing, and a backup big (and maybe a utility player for situational purposes). I prefer short 8-9 man rotations.
                        I agree. That's also one reason why I think that DeRozan could still be available - financial situation being the other (ie: close to the apron). If Bargnani & DeRozan (and possibly Anderson and/or Kleiza) can be turned into a starting PF and backup PG, our lineup would be set:

                        STARTERS
                        C: Valanciunas
                        PF: new guy
                        SF: Gay
                        SG: Fields
                        PG: Lowry

                        PRIMARY ROTATION
                        Big: Johnson
                        Wing: Ross
                        PG: new guy

                        BENCH
                        - Gray (backup C to play in certain matchups, or when Valanciunas gets in foul trouble)
                        - Acy (5th big)
                        - Anderson (could be 4th wing, if re-signed)
                        - Lucas (3rd PG)

                        * I do think a 4th wing would be needed, but I'm sure one could be found through free agency, for the MLE or less
                        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:56 AM.

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                        • #27
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          Horrible trade. Dalembert and Tinsley are crap....bigger crap than Bargs by so much. You're basically trading Demar and Bargs for Millsap...Add to that Millsap could easily walk, and you're basically giving away Bargs and Demar for a slim chance to re-sign Millsap. This trade basically means that in addition to a PF hole, and backup big, you will now also have a hole at wing (because you need 4 wings, so Gay, Demar, Ross and Fields is solid).
                          But if Millsap does sign, it could be the move that take us to 50 wins next year.

                          I'd be fine with the gamble on the assumption that Colangelo receives some indication (not sure how this is done without "tampering"), that Millsap is interested in staying in Toronto.

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                          • #28
                            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            Horrible trade. Dalembert and Tinsley are crap....bigger crap than Bargs by so much. You're basically trading Demar and Bargs for Millsap...Add to that Millsap could easily walk, and you're basically giving away Bargs and Demar for a slim chance to re-sign Millsap. This trade basically means that in addition to a PF hole, and backup big, you will now also have a hole at wing (because you need 4 wings, so Gay, Demar, Ross and Fields is solid).
                            It's essentially DeMar for Millsap.. but yeah he could walk. Although the Raps could offer the most money and years since he'd be their player. As I said in a previous post I'd be willing to amnesty Bargnani or dump his salary for no assets. This would be perfect in that we get 2 expiring contracts (Dalembert and Tinsley) for Bargnani.

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                            • #29
                              planetmars wrote: View Post
                              Ideally I would like an 8-9 man rotation too.. I just don't think JV is quite ready to be a rotational piece next year. In his 3rd year definitely, but he still has a lot of strength to gain and I don't quite see him developing fast enough to not have a 4th big in the rotation.
                              playing him 8 mins a game wont help either.

                              I hope Casey is not pulling a Smitch on Big Val.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Bargnani is obviously the one long term piece that doesn't seem to fit. The assumption is that Bargnani is traded in any Millsap deal (perhaps not to Utah directly but via a 3rd team).

                                Toronto would get Millsap's Bird rights.. they can sign him to a deal even if they go above the cap to do it. If they are able to move Bargnani to get Millsap then that would be adding only $2-$3M to the roster (ie, the difference between Bargnani's salary and Millsap's extension).

                                Assuming Kleiza is amnestied.. they'd be in the tax at about $71M (assuming Millsap's first year is at $12M) next year. That's still $3M below the apron.

                                If Millsap leaves in free agency then they are able to shed $10M (Bargnani's salary) from their roster without having to use the amnesty. They could then use the amnesty on Kleiza and have some wiggle room (ie, be able to get far enough away from tax so they can offer the full MLE and not be penalized by being a tax team). If the salary cap goes up as projected then they may even get under the cap and have some flexibility back.

                                It's a gamble, but I do think that if you show Millsap the money he will stay.. and if Bargnani's salary is dumped without needing to use the amnesty I think that's a bonus.

                                For those that are hoping for some kind of asset for Bargnani then this wouldn't work unless there was an agreement already in place from Millsap that he would resign. I'm personally okay if we don't get anything back for him. I just want the Bargnani era to come to an end before next season starts whether or not he returns an asset.
                                I agree with the last paragraph. I'm just as happy with a straight amnesty as anything.

                                However for the rest. There are numerous assumptions made here (a team wants Bargnani, or a team wants to help Toronto out in a deal, plus the questions of what else it would take for Utah to give Toronto Milsap or what Toronto would additionally give up). But even assuming they occur, or something similar, its still doesn't address trying to retain Lowry after signing Milsap.

                                Even if we want to assume Bargnani can be moved for Milsap, and MLSE would pay deep into the tax, and would pay Kleiza's amnestied salary on top of that, we are still talking about potentially having one of the highest payrolls in the league after resigning everyone. These aren't impossibilities, but I think trading for Milsap and having a realistic shot at retaining him while maintaining the roster is much more of a pipe dream then anything.

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