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  • #31
    TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    playing him 8 mins a game wont help either.

    I hope Casey is not pulling a Smitch on Big Val.
    If you have 96 minutes between two guys.. you could do something like 30, 30, 20 and 15 with a 4 big rotation.. where JV gets 20 mins. I'd need someone that can also play about 15+ mpg though (and I don't think Gray is that guy).

    If you look at the stats, JV's production and +/- are one of the worst on the team. I am okay with that because he's a rookie, but I don't suspect a huge change in his 2nd year. Most bigs blossom in their 3rd/4th years. That's why I'd like some insurance, and therefore a backup center next year.

    Unless if you think Gray is good for 15mpg (I don't) then it's fine I guess. I do agree that a backup PG is far more important than a backup C though.

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    • #32
      planetmars wrote: View Post
      If you have 96 minutes between two guys.. you could do something like 30, 30, 20 and 15 with a 4 big rotation.. where JV gets 20 mins. I'd need someone that can also play about 15+ mpg though (and I don't think Gray is that guy).
      Ideally, we'd go 35, 35 and 26. But with Amir and Jonas as foul-prone as they are, I suppose a 4th big is needed for emergencies.

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      • #33
        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        Horrible trade. Dalembert and Tinsley are crap....bigger crap than Bargs by so much. You're basically trading Demar and Bargs for Millsap...Add to that Millsap could easily walk, and you're basically giving away Bargs and Demar for a slim chance to re-sign Millsap. This trade basically means that in addition to a PF hole, and backup big, you will now also have a hole at wing (because you need 4 wings, so Gay, Demar, Ross and Fields is solid).
        But wouldn't having both DeMar and Bargs off the books be a good thing? We have Anderson whom can be the 4th wing and T. Ross can start or get more minutes which is a good thing for his development. Sure Milsap could walk, but we could also offer him an attractive contract which he may not receive elsewhere, not to mention a starting position.

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        • #34
          Craiger wrote: View Post
          I agree with the last paragraph. I'm just as happy with a straight amnesty as anything.

          However for the rest. There are numerous assumptions made here (a team wants Bargnani, or a team wants to help Toronto out in a deal, plus the questions of what else it would take for Utah to give Toronto Milsap or what Toronto would additionally give up). But even assuming they occur, or something similar, its still doesn't address trying to retain Lowry after signing Milsap.

          Even if we want to assume Bargnani can be moved for Milsap, and MLSE would pay deep into the tax, and would pay Kleiza's amnestied salary on top of that, we are still talking about potentially having one of the highest payrolls in the league after resigning everyone. These aren't impossibilities, but I think trading for Milsap and having a realistic shot at retaining him while maintaining the roster is much more of a pipe dream then anything.
          When discussing Millsap you have to throw out assumptions considering I have not heard one rumour that says that Toronto is even interested in him (if I had to guess, it would be Houston that would get him considering Morey is a stats guy and Millsap is one of the best producing players out there).... but with regards to Lowry's extension it wouldn't matter if Millsap was on the team or not, they would still need a PF regardless (Amir is not a long term answer).

          If it was Gasol then once his contract expires, the Raptors would still have to resign him (and he won't be cheap) or they'd have to try and trade for one (no free agent is coming here, plus they'd have cap issues anyway). So I'm not sure why it would it make a difference if they got Millsap or not. If they need to free up cap they have two expiring contracts in Fields/Amir in 2014 as well as DeMar's contract if they wanted to trade him.

          You also have to consider that the cap is probably going to be raised next season, which could lift the tax as well. Lot of assumptions for sure, but if Bryan is not done tinkering and if Bells/Rogers is willing to spend money then I personally would rather have them go after Millsap than Gasol (or any other potentially available PF).

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          • #35
            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=asekswf


            Demar and Bargnani for K-Love
            The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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            • #36
              i don't know, I guess my assumption here is that maybe a lot of fans on these forums are overvaluing Paul Millsap. He's also a 3rd, or maybe 2nd option at best, type player. Why go through so much fuss to get him? People are willing to give up more talent to get Millsap than they were to get Gay, a more talented player...what's the deal? Ok, obviously I'd prefer him over Bargs, but how much talent are you going to give up for a him on top of that? Demar is definitely too much, IMO.
              *again, all with no guarantee you can re-sign him, or sign a competent PF to replace him in the offseason. TO fans should know firsthand how much free agency is a crapshoot. You usually end up overpaying for players that fit a need, and the true stars will have choices and dictate where they go, which is not gonna be Toronto...maybe in a couple of years if we're winning
              Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:20 PM.

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              • #37
                Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                That's a much more acceptable package if you're going to trade away both those guys.

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                • #38
                  Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                  Too funny! planetmars suggested that yesterday in the 'Is Amir a legit starting PF' thread (http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...rting-PF/page4) in post #62, then I posted a similar trade proposal for after the season (assuming 2013 1st round pick goes to OKC) in post #76.

                  My thinking was that DeRozan & Bargnani & 2 x 1st round picks would at least be enough to get Minnesota to consider trading Love & Ridnour & Roy (to match/dump salary, to help them re-sign Pekovic & Buddinger). Minny could also try to turn Bargnani & Williams & 1st round pick(s) into Gasol, if they wanted to.

                  Toronto would address both their starting PF & backup PG needs in a single trade. If Gray uses his player option, Lucas's team option is picked-up, Kleiza is amnestied and Roy retires, the Raps would actually shave $6.75M off their team salary for 2013-2014. Their total commitments would be $67,115,165 for 11 players:

                  C: Valanciunas, Gray
                  PF: Love, Johnson, Acy
                  SF: Gay
                  SG: Fields, Ross
                  PG: Lowry, Ridnour, Lucas

                  Anderson could be re-signed as backup SF, or a free agent could be signed.

                  Too good to be true!
                  Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:27 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                    id prob do that in a heart beat if Love would stop braking his hand.. how long is he out for again?? im not sure Kahn could be be that stupid but who knows hes left many scratching there heads in the past..

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                    • #40
                      Pretty sure If Gay and Demar keep up this electric play we have seen (and why wouldnt they) thete is no way in Hell Colangelo is going to break that up all of you want Demar gone sure but you dontsee the reprocussion of losing him. The guy can score, Gay, DeRozan and Ross can turn into the one of the biggest wing threats in the league come 3 years from now.

                      PFs are a dime a dozen a scoing threat in the form of DeRozan not so much. Focus on the problem and the problem is Bargnani

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                      • #41
                        K-Love in a raps uniform...

                        Lowry
                        Ross
                        Rudy
                        K-Love
                        Val

                        I think K-love and Paul Milsap are the only trades I would consider with Demar in them. Id really hope for Ridnour to come back with that deal and we would be set for a championship run.
                        The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                        • #42
                          And its possible because Bargs will take up that stretch 4 position, and Demar is as close to an elite wing as Minny will find.
                          The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                          • #43
                            Demar wont be dealt, he's too valuable for us to deal with him now.

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                            • #44
                              Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                              Pretty sure If Gay and Demar keep up this electric play we have seen (and why wouldnt they) thete is no way in Hell Colangelo is going to break that up all of you want Demar gone sure but you dontsee the reprocussion of losing him. The guy can score, Gay, DeRozan and Ross can turn into the one of the biggest wing threats in the league come 3 years from now.

                              PFs are a dime a dozen a scoing threat in the form of DeRozan not so much. Focus on the problem and the problem is Bargnani
                              This team is precariously close to being a luxury tax team and needs to upgrade the starting PF and backup PG spots. Bargnani is not a valuable enough asset to achieve this alone. The wing spot is set even without DeRozan, with Gay/Ross/Fields.

                              There is no hate for DeRozan and it's not a matter of wanting him gone. It's a matter of being realistic about the team's finances, strengths and weaknesses, then turning 2 high-priced secondary players (Bargnani & DeRozan) into a star starting PF (Love) and solid veteran backup PG (Ridnour).

                              I would take Love & Gay & Fields starting PF/SF/SG with Ross & Johnson off the bench, over Johnson & Gay & DeRozan starting with Bargnani & Ross & Fields off the bench. You have to give up talent to get talent... and I think Love > Bargnani & DeRozan, especially with the financial savings it would represent as well.
                              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:48 PM.

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                              • #45
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Dalembert has a $6.7M expiring contract. So it's a valuable asset.

                                I still think the Raptors need a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG.

                                I think a trade like this could benefit all teams:
                                http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

                                Utah needs perimeter scoring and Ellis can provide that in bunches. He can also play point which is important especially since Williams went down. DeMar/Jennings can play together. The only issue is that Toronto will have 3 expiring contracts.. and it may be difficult to resign all three next season. But it's the kind of deal that I would be looking for.
                                LOVE this proposal. Anyone who sees Dalembert as crap doesn't know squat about ball. He's a great backup that can still block and rebound. Anything to get Millsap here would be great. Milwaukee would love to jump at this to keep Jennings around! Love this!
                                “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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