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Thread: The road for any off-season free agent signing runs through Gasol

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default The road for any off-season free agent signing runs through Gasol

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    For the Raptors to have any shot at the type of free agents people seem to be dreaming about (I'm not going to lie, I am included in the dreaming), the Raps need to acquire Gasol. Why? I am glad you asked.

    Raps are currently a tax team next year. Unless they drop $15M before July 1st they can't sign a top tier PF free agent. Luxury tax teams cannot sign and trade. I also do not believe you can execute a sign and trade that takes you in to the luxury.

    Also, Raps would only have MLE to make an offer. Many of the free agents we dream about are going to be much more expensive than $5M per season.

    So why Gasol? Because he has more value that any of Raptors assets which are available.

    Steps for the Raptors to make to have a chance in free agency:

    1) Acquire Gasol before trade deadline (Bargnani/Fields).
    2) Send him to MIN July 1st.
    3) MIN has just $36M guaranteed and likely $49M.
    4) Hope cap goes up by rumoured $5M.
    5) Amnesty Kleiza.
    6) Trade Gasol to MIN for one of Ridnour/Barea (backup PG) and the Wolves 1st rd pick after July 1st.
    7) I believe this would create a large trade exception for Toronto ($14-15M).
    8) Raps are now under luxury tax and able to do sign and trade (much like how Lakers got Nash but that was before new CBA rule of no tax team doing S&T).
    9) Make offer to Millsap/Smith and hope the signing elsewhere for nothing entices Jazz or Hawks to accept a 2nd rd pick or two as compensation.

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.

    **If I am wrong on any of this, please correct me**
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Necessary information:

    2013 NBA Free Agents

    NBA salary information


    For the Raptors to have any shot at the type of free agents people seem to be dreaming about (I'm not going to lie, I am included in the dreaming), the Raps need to acquire Gasol. Why? I am glad you asked.

    Raps are currently a tax team next year. Unless they drop $15M before July 1st they can't sign a top tier PF free agent. Luxury tax teams cannot sign and trade. I also do not believe you can execute a sign and trade that takes you in to the luxury.

    Also, Raps would only have MLE to make an offer. Many of the free agents we dream about are going to be much more expensive than $5M per season.

    So why Gasol? Because he has more value that any of Raptors assets which are available.

    Steps for the Raptors to make to have a chance in free agency:

    1) Acquire Gasol before trade deadline (Bargnani/Fields).
    2) Send him to MIN July 1st.
    3) MIN has just $36M guaranteed and likely $49M.
    4) Hope cap goes up by rumoured $5M.
    5) Amnesty Kleiza.
    6) Trade Gasol to MIN for one of Ridnour/Barea (backup PG) and the Wolves 1st rd pick after July 1st.
    7) I believe this would create a large trade exception for Toronto ($14-15M).
    8) Raps are now under luxury tax and able to do sign and trade (much like how Lakers got Nash but that was before new CBA rule of no tax team doing S&T).
    9) Make offer to Millsap/Smith and hope the signing elsewhere for nothing entices Jazz or Hawks to accept a 2nd rd pick or two as compensation.

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.

    **If I am wrong on any of this, please correct me**
    In light of Gasol's potential Plantar tear? You'd still go ahead with this?
    ďThe saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.Ē - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I still prefer this trade:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

    Courtesy of planetmars' thread response in "Blessing in Disguise". I still believe that Dalembert can be a decent back-up (rebounds and blocks). We also get rid of Demar (selling high) and get Millsap here without ever touching Gasol and his bummed feet. Just my opinions.
    ďThe saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.Ē - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Necessary information:

    2013 NBA Free Agents

    NBA salary information


    For the Raptors to have any shot at the type of free agents people seem to be dreaming about (I'm not going to lie, I am included in the dreaming), the Raps need to acquire Gasol. Why? I am glad you asked.

    Raps are currently a tax team next year. Unless they drop $15M before July 1st they can't sign a top tier PF free agent. Luxury tax teams cannot sign and trade. I also do not believe you can execute a sign and trade that takes you in to the luxury.

    Also, Raps would only have MLE to make an offer. Many of the free agents we dream about are going to be much more expensive than $5M per season.

    So why Gasol? Because he has more value that any of Raptors assets which are available.

    Steps for the Raptors to make to have a chance in free agency:

    1) Acquire Gasol before trade deadline (Bargnani/Fields).
    2) Send him to MIN July 1st.
    3) MIN has just $36M guaranteed and likely $49M.
    4) Hope cap goes up by rumoured $5M.
    5) Amnesty Kleiza.
    6) Trade Gasol to MIN for one of Ridnour/Barea (backup PG) and the Wolves 1st rd pick after July 1st.
    7) I believe this would create a large trade exception for Toronto ($14-15M).
    8) Raps are now under luxury tax and able to do sign and trade (much like how Lakers got Nash but that was before new CBA rule of no tax team doing S&T).
    9) Make offer to Millsap/Smith and hope the signing elsewhere for nothing entices Jazz or Hawks to accept a 2nd rd pick or two as compensation.

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.

    **If I am wrong on any of this, please correct me**
    Works for me.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    The only other option I see is to be part of a multi-team trade at the deadline, netting a starting PF that is already under contract. An example would be with Gasol & DeRozan ending up in Minnesota, Bargnani & Williams in LA and Love & Ridnour in Toronto. Obviously there would be more to it than that, but that's just an example of a deal without any uncertainty (like a trade for Millsap would entail).

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    In light of Gasol's potential Plantar tear? You'd still go ahead with this?
    Potential is the key word. But, yes, that could always change things.

    Bright side is Raps would have a $19M trade chip next year when the super tax has kicked in.

    But your concern is very valid.

    Bottom line: something like this is the only way the Raptors can add to their roster in free agency besides the MLE. Unless something like this happens, all the Millsap or Smith talk in free agency is useless unless they trade for them now and get their Bird Rights. But then you come back to: 1) Is Bargnani going to deliver one of those guys? and 2) because most likely not, are you giving up anything of value with the real possibility of the player leaving for nothing? The player leaving doesn't even give cap space because Raps will be well over cap.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Necessary information:

    2013 NBA Free Agents

    NBA salary information


    For the Raptors to have any shot at the type of free agents people seem to be dreaming about (I'm not going to lie, I am included in the dreaming), the Raps need to acquire Gasol. Why? I am glad you asked.

    Raps are currently a tax team next year. Unless they drop $15M before July 1st they can't sign a top tier PF free agent. Luxury tax teams cannot sign and trade. I also do not believe you can execute a sign and trade that takes you in to the luxury.

    Also, Raps would only have MLE to make an offer. Many of the free agents we dream about are going to be much more expensive than $5M per season.

    So why Gasol? Because he has more value that any of Raptors assets which are available.

    Steps for the Raptors to make to have a chance in free agency:

    1) Acquire Gasol before trade deadline (Bargnani/Fields).
    2) Send him to MIN July 1st.
    3) MIN has just $36M guaranteed and likely $49M.
    4) Hope cap goes up by rumoured $5M.
    5) Amnesty Kleiza.
    6) Trade Gasol to MIN for one of Ridnour/Barea (backup PG) and the Wolves 1st rd pick after July 1st.
    7) I believe this would create a large trade exception for Toronto ($14-15M).
    8) Raps are now under luxury tax and able to do sign and trade (much like how Lakers got Nash but that was before new CBA rule of no tax team doing S&T).
    9) Make offer to Millsap/Smith and hope the signing elsewhere for nothing entices Jazz or Hawks to accept a 2nd rd pick or two as compensation.

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.

    **If I am wrong on any of this, please correct me**
    I mainly agree with you because of that last part. To give up any significant asset (JV, Ross, Demar, Lowry) just to rent a guy is insane.

    Gasol gives us many more options. Whether it's to make a move this offseason, during next season, or even to see if he fits long term...we just have a stronger hand to make moves going forward given the cap situation.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I still prefer this trade:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjr9g8h

    Courtesy of planetmars' thread response in "Blessing in Disguise". I still believe that Dalembert can be a decent back-up (rebounds and blocks). We also get rid of Demar (selling high) and get Millsap here without ever touching Gasol and his bummed feet. Just my opinions.
    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    The only other option I see is to be part of a multi-team trade at the deadline, netting a starting PF that is already under contract. An example would be with Gasol & DeRozan ending up in Minnesota, Bargnani & Williams in LA and Love & Ridnour in Toronto. Obviously there would be more to it than that, but that's just an example of a deal without any uncertainty (like a trade for Millsap would entail).
    As I said in original post:

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.
    That is just my opinion.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    And let's not forget that (when healthy) Gasol is still an-star calibre player. Aside from the financial benefits, he'd be an upgrade on the court too.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    if his plantar is torn hes likely done for the season id think.. id explore other options at this point.. the whole gasol thing was iffy before & now it would be a complete waste.. my list now would include Gortat/Millsap/Love?/Scola/Garnett?

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    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    It's a good plan. However, it looks like awfully many things are left to chance for this plan to be a success.

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    Quote omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
    It's a good plan. However, it looks like awfully many things are left to chance for this plan to be a success.
    No shit, eh. Which doesn't make it a good plan at all.
    - A plan that requires 3 teams to co-operate just as planned?
    - A plan that hinges on Minny giving up a 1st rounder for an "unproven beyond injury" Gasol, when they have Love? Huh?
    - A plan that prays for Atlanta or Utah to not have a better offer than 2nd round picks? Really?

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As I said in original post:

    The talk/hope/dreams of Smith or Millsap would have to go like the above. For the Raps to give up any meaningful assets for a guy who can walk for nothing is stupid.


    That is just my opinion.
    +1

    It's not even stupid....its borderline psychotic!

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    No shit, eh. Which doesn't make it a good plan at all.
    - A plan that requires 3 teams to co-operate just as planned?
    - A plan that hinges on Minny giving up a 1st rounder for an "unproven beyond injury" Gasol, when they have Love? Huh?
    - A plan that prays for Atlanta or Utah to not have a better offer than 2nd round picks? Really?
    Given the Raptors have nothing but a MLE to use in free agency, the fact they are going to be a luxury team and can't do a sign and trade, and the number of people talking about getting Smith or Millsap, this was a way of showing the only way it could happen.

    Everything you said is absolutely correct.

    The reality is for the Raptors to be a player in free agency they need to trade for expiring contracts now looking to resign them thereby risk losing assets or create a trade exception or take on a $30M in expiring contracts in the next 15 days.

    None of those options seem viable to me. The only that leaves the Raptors most protected, in my opinion, is the one I laid out. My apologies if this was interpreted as a probable scenario. If anything, as your post indicates, it shows how improbable getting any meaningful free agent is given they very likely already have $70+M in salary next season.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Matt, I like your plan here. However, I'm not sure it's necessary. In regards to sign-and-trades, my understanding from reading Coon's FAQ is that anyone can use sign-and-trades as long as doing so doesn't take them above the apron. Here's what he says:

    Starting in 2013-14, the team receiving the player cannot be above the "apron" ($4 million above the tax level) after the trade.
    I don't see anything in his FAQ about sign-and-trades being off-limits to teams above the tax threshold. I know that other writers have said that, but I suspect that these tend to be writers who haven't delved into the CBA to the same depth that Coon has. (Or it's very possible that there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.)

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89

    We're currently at $72 million in committed salary for next year. If the tax threshold is at $70 million, and the apron is at $74 million, that gives us about 2$ million more than Bargnani's 11 million next season to work with. And straight up, we can take back a salary up to 125% + $100,000 of Bargnani's salary this year. All of that means, to me, that we could do a sign-and-trade for up to about 12.6 million straight up for Bargnani, or more if other players were on their way out. If we could include Gray in the trade, we should be able to take back a contract for close to $15 million.

    The downside is that teams that execute a sign-and-trade cannot go above the apron for the remainder of the year. What I'm not clear on is the timing of all that... can we execute a sign-and-trade to bring in a guy like Millsap right now, bringing us right up to the apron, and then use our mini-MLE and minimum contracts to exceed the apron after July 1? Or does the extension count as a 2013-14 signing?

    edit: correcting myself, I see that sign-and-trades can't be completed during the season anymore. So we'd need to wait for the offseason, anyway. So yeah, hard-cap at $74 million would be in effect.
    Last edited by octothorp; Wed Feb 6th, 2013 at 03:33 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    And let's not forget that (when healthy) Gasol is still an-star calibre player. Aside from the financial benefits, he'd be an upgrade on the court too.
    Exactly.

    The injury is a major concern but this is the same injury that AA had earlier in the season. We don't know how severe Gasol's is at this time though but AA was partially torn.
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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    SCOLA....YES OF COURSE....why the hell didn't I think of this we need him!

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    SHIT! can't get him until the off season

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Matt, I like your plan here. However, I'm not sure it's necessary. In regards to sign-and-trades, my understanding from reading Coon's FAQ is that anyone can use sign-and-trades as long as doing so doesn't take them above the apron. Here's what he says:



    I don't see anything in his FAQ about sign-and-trades being off-limits to teams above the tax threshold. I know that other writers have said that, but I suspect that these tend to be writers who haven't delved into the CBA to the same depth that Coon has. (Or it's very possible that there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.)

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89

    We're currently at $72 million in committed salary for next year. If the tax threshold is at $70 million, and the apron is at $74 million, that gives us about 2$ million more than Bargnani's 11 million next season to work with. And straight up, we can take back a salary up to 125% + $100,000 of Bargnani's salary this year. All of that means, to me, that we could do a sign-and-trade for up to about 12.6 million straight up for Bargnani, or more if other players were on their way out. If we could include Gray in the trade, we should be able to take back a contract for close to $15 million.

    The downside is that teams that execute a sign-and-trade cannot go above the apron for the remainder of the year. What I'm not clear on is the timing of all that... can we execute a sign-and-trade to bring in a guy like Millsap right now, bringing us right up to the apron, and then use our mini-MLE and minimum contracts to exceed the apron after July 1? Or does the extension count as a 2013-14 signing?
    Thanks for that.

    Gasol may not be necessary as I laid out but any chance of the Raps making a sign and trade would require getting an expiring contract for Bargnani or amnestying Bargnani. Ideally getting an expiring contract for Bargnani would be ideal and amnestying Kleiza.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    might be easier to buyout Kleiza rather than amnesty

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