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Thread: The road for any off-season free agent signing runs through Gasol

  1. #21
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    side note...it occurred to me that Denver would be a good spot for Bargs to land.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I dont think Minnisota even wants him anymore guy goes down easier than water. So whats plan B?

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    might be easier to buyout Kleiza rather than amnesty
    Anything you buy him out for is going to count against the cap.... Now if he is willing to go for $100, a large pep and cheese from Pizza Pizza, and a case of Molson Canadian then sure.
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  4. #24
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure why Gasol is being discussed as 'the only way'. Lets use Millsap as an example.

    The offseason rolls around and Toronto has $72,951,259 tied-up in 12 players (assuming Haddadi is cut and all other options picked-up). Toronto kicks the tires on Millsap on July 1st, and he would be happy to sign for say $15M per season (once the moratorium period has ended). The Jazz don't plan on matching and would be willing to faciliate a S&T, to get something in return for Millsap.

    Option A: What is preventing the Raptors from using the amnesty on Bargnani ($11.75M), then executing a S&T deal, as long as enough salary was sent back to Utah to keep the Raptors under the apron? In this case, it would only require a couple million dollars (ie: Gray), in addition to say a draft pick (and the big TPE that would be generated for Utah)?

    Option B: Couldn't the Raptors amnesty Kleiza ($4.5M) and then trade DeRozan ($9.5M) back to Utah? They'd be under the current $74M apron in that scenario.


    Or am I missing something??? I'm just trying to wrap my head around other options that could theoretically work, allowing the Raptors to target big name free agents, without needing to go the 'trade for Gasol at the deadline' route. Not that I'm necessarily opposed to going that route, mind you (if it's say, Bargnani & Kleiza & a couple 2nd round picks for Gasol).


    EDIT: nevermind 'Option A', I realized I was thinking about the tax cap, not the salary cap. The raps would essentially need to amnesty Bargnani/Kleiza AND trade enough salary back to work within the ((money out * 1.25)+$100,000) rule.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6th, 2013 at 04:03 PM.

  5. #25
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think DeRozan isn't going anywhere

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'm really not sure why Gasol is being discussed as 'the only way'. Lets use Millsap as an example.

    The offseason rolls around and Toronto has $72,951,259 tied-up in 12 players (assuming Haddadi is cut and all other options picked-up). Toronto kicks the tires on Millsap on July 1st, and he would be happy to sign for say $15M per season (once the moratorium period has ended). The Jazz don't plan on matching and would be willing faciliate a S&T, to get something in return for Millsap.

    What is preventing the Raptors from using the amnesty on Bargnani ($11.75M), then executing a S&T deal, as long as enough salary was sent back to Utah to keep the Raptors under the apron? In this case, it would only require a couple million dollars (ie: Gray)?

    Or, as another option, couldn't the Raptors amnesty Kleiza ($4.5M) and then trade DeRozan ($9.5M) back to Utah? They'd be under the current $74M apron in that scenario.


    Or am I missing something??? I'm just trying to wrap my head around other options that could theoretically work, allowing the Raptors to target big name free agents, without needing to go the 'trade for Gasol at the deadline' route.
    No I was missing the $74M apron.

    I thought no luxury tax team could do sign and trade but you are allowed to go up to $74M.

    My original assumption was also that no team would give up an expiring contract for Bargnan and that not picking up Haddadi and amnestying Kleiza would not create enough cap space to do a sign and trade for enough dollars to entice Millsap or Smith.

    So this new information shows that a TPE exception is not the only way to land these guys. But a large TPE would still be awesome to have at this time entering the super luxury tax era.
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  7. #27
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No I was missing the $74M apron.

    I thought no luxury tax team could do sign and trade but you are allowed to go up to $74M.

    My original assumption was also that no team would give up an expiring contract for Bargnan and that not picking up Haddadi and amnestying Kleiza would not create enough cap space to do a sign and trade for enough dollars to entice Millsap or Smith.

    So this new information shows that a TPE exception is not the only way to land these guys. But a large TPE would still be awesome to have at this time entering the super luxury tax era.
    So one way to address all the team's needs, including landing Millsap (only using him because he seems to be the popular target):

    Starting offseason salary for 2013-04, barring additional moves: $74,348,759 (13 players)

    1. Trade Bargnani at deadline for little/no contracts that extend beyond this year (essentially saving $10.75M next season), or possibly to pickup a backup PG (would mean less savings next year)
    2. Amnesty Kleiza or hope he doesn't re-up (saving $4.6M next season)
    3. Decline option on Haddadi (saving $1,397,500 next season)

    Updated total salary for 2013-14: $57,601,259 (10 players), or slightly more if backup PG is acquired in Bargnani trade

    4. S&T for any player, as long as it works within the standard trade rule: maximum money coming in = [(money going out * 1.25)+$100,000]

    Which means, it's likely that DeRozan would still need to be traded for whichever big name player we're trying to sign (ie: Millsap). So, the net impact would be DeRozan & Bargnani & Kleiza & Haddadi for Millsap (and possibly a backup PG), in this example.

    If Millsap signed a $15M contract (just as an example), the team would then have 10 players under contract for a total of $63,101,259 (plus possibly a backup PG).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6th, 2013 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #28
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    It's better to amnesty Andrea, thereby no salary comes back in a trade. It's simple, there goes 10.75 million of the cap money. With a little creativity, BC or the GM in waiting can find a way to dump some salary and stay under the tax line.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    If they want to win, they're going to (have to) go into lux tax, and that's been affirmed by Colangelo in recent interviews as A-OK by MLSE for the right player. The "right player", IMO, is not Pau Gasol (and I don't think he's BC's or MLSE's "right player" either).

    I also don't think Millsap is that player. He's not some all-universe PF that teams can't live without. In fact, I don't think a "starting PF" is even that player that they need to blow the farm to acquire. Amir Johnson is doing quite alright in that role, he's only 25 (and a 7-year vet), and he's under contract at a great price for his efficient production. They're in much more dire need of a solid backup 1.

    This season, Toronto doesn't have to make any more changes at all (that is, their playoff future is not staked on getting another elite player). And making no changes will not affect future flexibility. The only moves that I would guess are available this season would, in fact, harm future flexibility. If you trade Bargnani for something along the lines of what's been discussed above, you're not helping yourself now or in the summer or next season. Better by far to wait and see what happens with AB -- accepting that this team is not currently built for a playoff run -- and then figure out your next move in the spring.

    I realize that's anathema to those who think Bargs is a cancer that needs to be excised before this team will ever move forward. But there's just no need to sacrifice other assets just to remove AB from the equation.
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  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    So one way to address all the team's needs, including landing Millsap (only using him because he seems to be the popular target):

    Starting offseason salary for 2013-04, barring additional moves: $74,348,759 (13 players)

    1. Trade Bargnani at deadline for little/no contracts that extend beyond this year (essentially saving $10.75M next season), or possibly to pickup a backup PG (would mean less savings next year)
    2. Amnesty Kleiza or hope he doesn't re-up (saving $4.6M next season)
    3. Decline option on Haddadi (saving $1,397,500 next season)

    Updated total salary for 2013-14: $57,601,259 (10 players), or slightly more if backup PG is acquired in Bargnani trade

    4. S&T for any player, as long as it works within the standard trade rule: maximum money coming in = [(money going out * 1.25)+$100,000]

    Which means, it's likely that DeRozan would still need to be traded for whichever big name player we're trying to sign (ie: Millsap). So, the net impact would be DeRozan & Bargnani & Kleiza & Haddadi for Millsap (and possibly a backup PG), in this example.

    If Millsap signed a $15M contract (just as an example), the team would then have 10 players under contract for a total of $63,101,259 (plus possibly a backup PG).
    You have Trading DeRozanitus. You would not have to include DeRozan in the scenario you laid out above.
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  11. #31
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    If they want to win, they're going to (have to) go into lux tax, and that's been affirmed by Colangelo in recent interviews as A-OK by MLSE for the right player. The "right player", IMO, is not Pau Gasol (and I don't think he's BC's or MLSE's "right player" either).

    I also don't think Millsap is that player. He's not some all-universe PF that teams can't live without. In fact, I don't think a "starting PF" is even that player that they need to blow the farm to acquire. Amir Johnson is doing quite alright in that role, he's only 25 (and a 7-year vet), and he's under contract at a great price for his efficient production. They're in much more dire need of a solid backup 1.

    This season, Toronto doesn't have to make any more changes at all (that is, their playoff future is not staked on getting another elite player). And making no changes will not affect future flexibility. The only moves that I would guess are available this season would, in fact, harm future flexibility. If you trade Bargnani for something along the lines of what's been discussed above, you're not helping yourself now or in the summer or next season. Better by far to wait and see what happens with AB -- accepting that this team is not currently built for a playoff run -- and then figure out your next move in the spring.

    I realize that's anathema to those who think Bargs is a cancer that needs to be excised before this team will ever move forward. But there's just no need to sacrifice other assets just to remove AB from the equation.
    I wouldn't be suprised if that's the case. Or perhaps Bargnani is traded in a 2-for-1 deal, returning a solid backup PG and an expiring contract (with a 1st round pick would be icing on the cake, but I'm not holding my breath). Say each player made around $5M, that would save the team $5M next season. Cutting Haddadi and using amnesty of Kleiza would bring the total savings up to $11M (and the total salary down to a very manageable $63-64M).

    They would have addressed one of their weaknesses (backup PG), resolved the Bargnani issue and set the team up for full MLE and Bi-Annual Exceptions in the offseason. To me, that's probably the best/safest approach for this deadline. They can still choose to make a bigger move in the offseason, if one presents itself.

  12. #32
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You have Trading DeRozanitus. You would not have to include DeRozan in the scenario you laid out above.
    lol just too much reading Coon's CBA FAQ!

    With the Raps sitting at $57.6M before the S&T (just below the cap of $58.044M), Millsap's contract would take them over the cap. Doesn't that mean that they then have to abide by the salary matching rule? Obviously it wouldn't have to be DeRozan, but they'd have to send enough salary somehow, wouldn't they?

  13. #33
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    lol just too much reading Coon's CBA FAQ!

    With the Raps sitting at $57.6M before the S&T (just below the cap of $58.044M), Millsap's contract would take them over the cap. Doesn't that mean that they then have to abide by the salary matching rule? Obviously it wouldn't have to be DeRozan, but they'd have to send enough salary somehow, wouldn't they?
    Oh yeah.... I've got "TPE-thru-Gasol-trade-itus".

    Sorry. haha
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  14. #34
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh yeah.... I've got "TPE-thru-Gasol-trade-itus".

    Sorry. haha
    haha!

    I think it's just wednesday, a little over 2 weeks to the trade deadline and we've all got a case of "F**K-the-CBA-is-confusing-damn-you-Larry-Coon-we-just-want-to-make-the-Raptors-better-now-and-for-the-long-term-itis"!

    #HardCapWouldBeSoMuchEasierToWorkWith

  15. #35
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    I am liking JJ Hickson and Dejuan Blair
    Quite a few good FA's out there, not sure which ones would be wiling to go to Toronto though.

  16. #36
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    For this to be possible certain things have to happen and hopefully they do. This is my suggestion. Hoping that the suggested things come together Raps. trade Bargnani, Gray and Klieza for Gasol. Gasol is probably done for the season. Raps. are not making the playoffs anyway so Gasol rests for the rest of the season(if necessary). The trade will not effect their performance too much thereby ensuring they finish the season around the position they are in now. OKC gets a late lottery pick which is what Raps. want.

    Plan A: Matt's suggested plan.

    Plan B: Let Gasol who other than being a solid 2nd scoring option, passes and rebounds really well, be the starting PF. Use MLE to sign a reliable back up PG. Even Jose might be interested considering Gasol is in the team. Gay, Gasol, Demar, Lowry, Jonas and a capable supporting staff pretty much ensures Raps. a play-off berth IMO. 19 mil.(Gasol's salary) comes off the books at the end of the season enabling flexibility. Gasol could be re-signed(maybe) for less money and more pieces could be added.
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  17. #37
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    Quote omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
    It's a bad plan because it looks like awfully many things are left to chance for this plan to be a success.
    I fixed that for you.

    Last year plan was much more simple: overpay Fields to sign Nash.

    Yes, that worked.

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