Andrea should go because this fanbase is becoming one of the worst and most childish.Chr1s1anL wrote:
Andrea should go because this fanbase is becoming one of the worst and most childish.
What gives you that idea...could it be that he reneged on a handshake contract deal in CLE and bolted for Utah?
And Bargs isn't injury prone?
So wait a sec... Colangelo was actually telling the truth when he said that teams would call and ask about Bargnani?
At the very least, it's good to have a rumoured offer out there so that BC can take it to other potential trade partners and try to get a better deal. If Boozer really is the best deal, man, it's really hard to decide if we'd be better off, either short-term or long-term. I do agree with those saying that Gasol's one-year contract is a little easier to stomach, even if it doesn't help us right now.
wtf.
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
The big issue with the gay trade and this one is that it involves max salary players. As a fan, I don't care what the salaries are as long as ownership is okay with spending the money.
I also don't see how it makes more sense to keep bargs and amnesty him (which means you still have to pay him) and trading for boozer. If you amnesty bargs your paying his 10 million plus whatever you are going to pay for his replacement. If you are looking at a decent starter on a non rookie deal that's probably going to cost you 10 mill. You aren't really saving any money.
If boozer is the only trade partner available, and the only options management is considering is the boozer trade or amnesty than I think trade for boozer wins hands down. Who are the raps going to sign for the 5-7mill difference? Because if you pay anyone more than 5-7 the total cost to the team is higher.
I don't believe, however that those are the only two options available. There's nothing wrong with Coangelo fielding calls from other teams to see if they could somehow score Gasol, Love or Milsap, although Love just went on record saying he loves minny, the org, and doesn't want to go anywhere else.
I also think that you can wait until the off season, or even next season to move bargs if you aren't liking the deals coming back. As I said before, I don't care how mgmt spends their money, BUT if I was making decisions, I wouldn't make the trade with Chicago unless I felt like we were getting good value back. To me that means Heinrich or a 1st round pick, and the players to match salaries.
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
I liked this Boozer trade until i herd about the Williams and Ridnour trade for "bananna". Shit i'd throw in AA and/or Lucas and you get ...
PG- Lowry, Ridnour
SG- DD, TR
SF- RG, DWill
PF- AJ, The beard 2.0
C- JV, AG
and still have Fields, Kleiza and Pietrus with CRZAY flexiablity with your line ups.
All in on that move!!!
Also, is their any reason we can't trade for Pau when he's injured? I mean if he's not coming back anytime soon, doesn't that mean LAL would be in more of a hurry to get a body who can play? If they don't make the playoffs this year, shit is going to hit the fan in lakerland. Were not going anywhere this year anyway. Gasol can be our starter next year and jv can come off the bench, or if JV starts playing really well we can always start JV+Gasol and have amir come off the bench. Two years from now JV is starting center and we've freed up some money, or have traded Gasol's expiring for another young big.
What about Bargs + Fields for Gasol or Bargs + Kleiza + AA for Gasol.
Is LA desperate enough? Is D'antoni wet for bargs? Am I on mescaline?
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
I don't know. Just giving my opinion.
As for why, this trade would be a swing of around $50M for the Bulls when you consider salary, tax, and revenue sharing.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
I agree with you in theory but the statistics this season do not back that claim up. The Raps are back to a bottom 5 defensive team this year.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
This trade, or any trade that has Kleiza or Fields going to Chicago, defeats the whole purpose on Chicago's end. They are trying to get out of the tax for this season and next season.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
I still don't like the idea of taking on another bloated contract. Still like the idea of getting some youngs and build with what we have. LA needs to make a move to shore up their PF position and looks like maybe Howard won't be healthy the rest of the year and may not be a fit in LA , Houston would jump at the chance to lock him up or at the very least have the upper hand in resigning him next year.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=at5wnkk
We get 2 promising PF to add to the stable , and a servicable C for the rest of the year. See our salaries reduced by about 8 mil next year instead of going up 5m.
LA gets a PF in BArgs that should fit into the D'Antoni system as well as a rebounding big in Asik that doesn't demand the ball , throw in Morris and they are able to still play out the season and then move Gasol in the offseason for more pieces to fix the trainwreck that they are.
Houston gets their man Howard.....nuff said there.
Toronto looks like this after swaping Anderson to Utah for Tinsley and waiving Pietrus and Haddadi
Lowry / Tinsley / Lucas
DeRozan / Ross
Gay / Fields / Kleiza
Johnson / Jones / Montiejunas / Acy
JV / Gray / Aldrich
Come summer we can amnesty Kleiza , let Lucas and Aldrich go , try moving Montiejunas to C , Resign Tinsley and then will in the blanks with min contracts and keeping our salary under 65m.
Exactly what I'm thinking.. I'd rather go after Gasol now. The Raptors are not making the playoffs. The Lakers will be desperate to unload him for any body. The Lakers are tax payers and don't care.
I'm thinking about next season, not this season.
Howard has been assured that he won't be traded.
I haven't read through the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating someone's idea. But this trade helps us next year, and that's about it. This year is already over. There's no way we're catching the 8th seed with the hole we've dug.
Boozer finally gives us a low post thread to attract double-teams, something we've been missing since the Bosh days. The only thing left to address would be the lack of 3pt shooting in the starting lineup. But a lineup of Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Boozer and Jonas should be enough to win 40 games next year....assuming everyone stays healthy.
Such a move goes completely against the idea of rebuilding properly through the draft. But as long as Colangelo is in town, we ALL need to get this wish out of our heads, because it ain't happening.
If none of this works, the worst case scenario is that we have a playoff contender to cheer for the next 2 years. And then we've got a ton of cap space in the summer of 2015 (when Boozer and Gay comes off the books).
"I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder
You can win a lot of games just making the right plays besides JVs rookie mistakes and or Demars blunders on Defense the money ball can be worked around, Chicago only attempts 4.8 3 pointers a game and they have an amazing record.
Yep. There was word that they would consider using the Amnesty on Boozer just to stay away from paying the tax.
I'm back and forth on this trade. I hate Carlos Boozer as a human being, and that kind of makes me not want to trade for him. On the other hand I hate what Bargnani stands for on the court. He's lazy and he doesn't care and that is worse than Boozer being a jackass. We are not rebuilding and thus taking on his contract doesn't matter that much, and he's a pretty good player.
He adds a lot of the toughness that this team has lacked since Charles Oakley days. Someone said they could see him being angry about being traded to Toronto, and unhappy. We've seen this throughout his career so yea, it could happen. There's a risk there for sure. But then again we're talking about Bargnani. A potentially pouty and half-assed effort from Boozer is still better than what Bargnani has done for us over the last 7 years. Combined.
A draft pick like you suggested would make this a lot easier for me.
your pal,
ebrian
Here's SI's take on this trade. (Like Nilanka, I didn't read the full thread, but since this was only recently posted on SI, I think I'm safe)
"Who wants to swap underwhelming, overpaid power forwards?
ESPN.com reported that Bulls and Raptors are potentially discussing a Carlos Boozer for Andrea Bargnani swap.
The Chicago Bulls and Toronto Raptors have engaged in exploratory trade discussions on a deal that would swap the Bulls’ Carlos Boozer for the Raptors’ Andrea Bargnani, according to sources familiar with the discussions.
Other players with smaller contracts would have to be added to the deal to make the salary-cap math work, should talks indeed progress to a more serious level, but sources told ESPN.com on Thursday that both teams have given consideration to the move.
The Chicago Tribune reported that the Bulls initiated the trade talks but that a deal between the teams is “unlikely” to come to fruition.
Boozer, 31, is in the middle of a five-year, $75 million contract that pays him $15 million this season, $15.3 million next season and $16.8 million in 2014-15. He is averaging 15.7 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.0 assists and shooting 47.2 percent this season.
Bargnani, 27, is in the middle of a five-year, $50 million contract that pays him $10 million this season, $10.8 million next season and $11.5 million in 2014-15. The final year is a player option, which he’s likely to opt into unless he manages a remarkable and unexpected career revival. This season, Bargnani is averaging 15.9 points, 4.3 rebounds, 1.4 assists while shooting just 40.1 percent from the field and 30.9 percent from deep. He missed roughly two months with an elbow injury before returning to action this week.
Let’s not beat around the bush. This proposed trade would be laughed off the court for basketball reasons. For all of Boozer’s annoyances and faults, he was a fringe All-Star candidate this season and is a key reason why the Bulls have been neck-and-neck with the Pacers at the top of the Central Division despite the absence of Derrick Rose. He’s helped Chicago to a No. 7 ranking in rebound rate and he hasn’t stood in the way of the Bulls’ No. 3 ranking in defensive efficiency. More than half his shot attempts come from the paint and he’s got a solid mid-range shot to keep teams honest.
Bargnani, on the other hand, has been about as unwatchable as it gets. Take your pick from these words — lethargic, unproductive, inefficient — or take them all. The Raptors were 4-17 with him in the starting lineup to open the season and they went 13-14 before he returned to action on Wednesday. What more do you need to know? He’s an unmotivated defender not known for his toughness who hasn’t been in the postseason since 2008; more than two-thirds of his shot attempts have come from outside the paint over the last two seasons. How or where or why he would fit into Chicago’s plans as anything other than a bridge to clear out Boozer’s contract is a mystery.
Chicago’s rationale behind this trade proposal, of course, would be all financial. The Bulls sit roughly $5 million over the luxury tax line and are headed into luxury tax territory again next season unless they start trimming. The fundamental issue they face is essentially the same one that broke up the Thunder and Grizzlies: it’s difficult to commit eight-figure (or close) salaries to four different players without incurring more punitive luxury tax penalties under the new collective bargaining agreement. The Thunder elected to downsize out of James Harden, who wanted a max contract, and the Grizzlies shipped off a max guy in Rudy Gay. Boozer, like Gay, is paid as a max player while being one or two steps below a max-quality player. There’s no question that he’s the odd man out if Chicago is choosing between him and Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah. The Bulls also committed above mid-level money to power forward Taj Gibson, whose new deal goes two years longer than Boozer’s. That all suggests the Bulls are headed towards a post-Boozer reality fairly quickly.
The question, though, is when. Dumping Boozer now would be a bigger blow than the Harden or Gay trades because of the timing and because they can claim to be legitimate title contenders whereas the Grizzlies are not. The East simply presents an easier route than the West and the Bulls’ current core proved it can advance as far as the East finals in 2011. Chicago, already set to reincorporate Rose into the mix after a season-long rehabilitation from knee surgery, would be stuck dealing with two major moving parts and less than two months of regular season games to get things right if the traded Boozer before the Feb. 21 deadline. Moving Boozer now wouldn’t necessarily be blowing up the season but it would have a major, major impact for a team that is arguably the East’s second best when fully healthy.
There are a few other advantages to waiting until the offseason. For starters, there’s the amnesty clause, which could be used to clear out Boozer without taking back the $22+ million of future salary owed to Bargnani. If Chicago’s notoriously stingy ownership balks at writing the amnesty check without getting a player back, the summer presents another alternative: trading Boozer into a team’s cap space and taking back smaller salary commitments in an uneven trade. That route could prove to be preferable, as it would keep Chicago’s core intact this season and potentially provide greater cost savings if the right buyer can be found for the final two years of Boozer’s deal.
As for Toronto, this would amount to another trip on the Bryan Colangelo Express, as Rob Mahoney brilliantly dubbed it. The allure of trading Bargnani is serious, as the team and player are clearly ready for a split, but Toronto needs to be shedding dollars wherever possible, not stockpiling yet another major, multi-year commitment. If this proposal did go through, the Raptors would be looking at a financial commitment of more than $55 million (almost the entire salary cap) to just five players: Gay, Boozer, DeMar DeRozan, Amir Johnson and Landry Fields. That would be a funny thought if it wasn’t so incredibly painful. That core, plus Kyle Lowry, still wouldn’t be a major threat in the East playoffs and their only consolation prize would be finishing second to the Lakers in the “most expensive mediocre team” conversation. Not exactly a place you want to be without the benefits of the Lakers’ television deal.
In sum, a downsizing style trade involving Boozer makes a lot of sense for the Bulls and it’s coming sooner or later, assuming they decide against the amnesty route. This particular move, though, makes little sense, and one would hope Chicago ownership would be willing to pay to play out their hand the rest of the season. As for the Raptors, they should be running the other direction from taking on new salary, meaning Colangelo is probably licking his lips and opening his wallet in anticipation as we speak."
http://nba.si.com/2013/02/08/carlos-.../?sct=uk_t2_a3
Go Raps Go
In Casey We Trust
"The idea isn't to block every shot, the idea is to make your opponent think you might" - Bill Russell
The question is who do people want, a healthy Gasol or Boozer as of right now? With Gasol's injury, (plantar fascia) I'd stay away from him as far away as possible. I didn't realize that fans have an incredible input in all of this. Most articles I read about AB7's demise in Toronto was borne out of fans' frustrations (it has been 7 years).
Last edited by Balls of Steel; Fri Feb 8th, 2013 at 09:26 AM.
“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
There's no guarantee that Gasol will continue to be healthy next year or that he'll still play at a high level next year. Boozer has been relatively healthy this season and has been producing productively, so he's a bit safer at the moment IMO. There's too many "what ifs" with Gasol this season and next season...
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