View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8321
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    +1 i feel for the guy but i think it is time to move on.
    Moving on is what has happened with the addition of RG. With Rudy clearly taking on the top dog role there is no longer the confusion with what is expected from Andrea. That is why I changed my stance on Andrea. The team has evolved since the trade and now Bargs isn't going to be throwing up 20+ shots a game. He understands his clearly defined expectations and is confident he can bring a lot of value playing within his abilities. His game is now a good fit for this team where in the past he was encouraged to do more than he was capable of. I can actually see his all around game improving as the pressure is released and his confidence gets stronger.

  2. #8322
    Raptors Republic Rookie StaytheCourse's Avatar
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    Fickle group these Raptor fans! When others were calling for his head I felt he could still contribute if the role was changed.

    Two games doesn't prove me right but I am sure of this he can contribute some time somewhere. Toronto better get something good in return if they do let him go!
    Twitter:@coachclement

    The best way to predict your future is to create it - Peter Drucker

  3. #8323
    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    Give whatever excuse you want, but booing a specific Raptor who is coming back from an injury is completely classless. I thought it was embarrassing for the Raptors' fans.
    Yup.
    Anyone who boos the home team or any of its players has zero class and is acting like a douche whether he wants to admit it or not.
    Anyone who wonders why this is so, or needs an explanation as to why the "i paid for my ticket therefore I can do whatever the hell I want" argument is just irresponsible and immature. Yeah I said it

    "I PAID for my ticket so I can do whatever I want!" --- f*%ck outta here!

  4. #8324
    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    Quote StaytheCourse wrote: View Post
    Fickle group these Raptor fans! When others were calling for his head I felt he could still contribute if the role was changed.

    Two games doesn't prove me right but I am sure of this he can contribute some time somewhere. Toronto better get something good in return if they do let him go!
    This what Ive been trying to say as well. It seems a lot of these Raps fans get so emotional that they lose focus on the bigger picture.
    Like people have been saying, this is a new team and Bargs has a new role. We shouldnt just get rid of the guy just for the sake of getting rid of him. He might still contribute to this team and who knows, he might just prove all the haters wrong.

  5. #8325
    Raptors Republic Rookie Dunk's Avatar
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    Honestly I didn't think he played that great. I absolutely HATE when he leaves his man to go chase someone and attempt a double team. It always fails and they easily get it to his man for the easy bucket. The best part of his game last night was that he didn't shoot 20 times. #tradebargnani

  6. #8326
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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    Yup.
    Anyone who boos the home team or any of its players has zero class and is acting like a douche whether he wants to admit it or not.
    Anyone who wonders why this is so, or needs an explanation as to why the "i paid for my ticket therefore I can do whatever the hell I want" argument is just irresponsible and immature. Yeah I said it

    "I PAID for my ticket so I can do whatever I want!" --- f*%ck outta here!
    What do you suggest a paying fan do if he is unhappy with a players or coaches or gm's job performance ? Do nothing , accept it with indifference or express one's displeasure?

  7. #8327
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It's interesting using the word "classless", because showing class requires an effort. Which means what you're really saying is that it takes an amount of effort to not boo Bargnani. As in, he deserves it but people should show some class and hold back.

    Well, if that's the case then I come back to you with another word -- dignity. Have a little self respect for yourself. Here is a guy who, if he isn't traded will have sucked $71M out of the Toronto Raptors by the end of his contract.

    Taking the following criteria of being 7' with average of 25+ minutes per game, here is where Bargnani ranks in the history of the NBA:
    - dead last in rebounds per game
    - 5th worst all time in FG%
    - 7th worst all time in blocks
    - 1st all time in 3 pointers attempted

    You'll want to argue that this is Colangelo's fault, but the problem with that is Bargnani has the ability to be so much better. Unfortunately he just doesn't care. Plus booing Bargnani is booing Colangelo.

    And then we have fans like you who are putting up an effort to take more. It's like pointing at the guy, turning around and bending over so he can take you right up your rear end. You're sitting in the stands, hearing guys stand up for themselves and their city and instead you think to yourself ""I have class" and do nothing. What's worse is you come to the forums to rant about this.

    I'm sorry, but if that means I have no class, then I don't want to have class in this situation. I'd rather leave the arena with some dignity and I'm glad some fans feel the same way. If this had been anyone else, I can understand but frankly I'm fed up. This is Andrea Bargnani we're talking about.

    Cc to old school

  8. #8328
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    I think you want to be a rebuilding team. The raptors dont. thats what it comes down to. I heard the same stuff before Gay became a Raptor and everyone wised up. Im on the boozer wagon now and I bet everyone changes their tune when he comes here. Like I said, ROGERS doesnt care about the money ( look at the Blue Jays), so I have no clue why fans are so worried about the money. Do they like idea of cap flex. so they can ponder at the trade machine all day long ? In 2015 there will be a ton of cap space so its not like were are screwed forever.
    Ok bring on boozer.
    Rogers fixed the Jays, tried to fix the leafs but Burke wouldnt comply and lost his job over it, and now they are fixing the Raptors. The money isnt the problem, Rogers just wants players that will be exiting, bring in fans and make the playoffs for revenue. We probably wont wing the championship but neither will 29 other teams. IMO this is a great start for us. SPEND THE DOUGH BC!
    OK bring on boozer.

  9. #8329
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    Quote Dunk wrote: View Post
    Honestly I didn't think he played that great. I absolutely HATE when he leaves his man to go chase someone and attempt a double team. It always fails and they easily get it to his man for the easy bucket. The best part of his game last night was that he didn't shoot 20 times. #tradebargnani
    Bargnani is not the enemy, actually he is one of our most talented players. With the addition of gay, the maturity of the team, and his maturity as far as his expectations go I think we have a situation where he can flourish. I predict a break out game for him against the hornets on Sunday.

  10. #8330
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    That's what I think too. If the Bulls offer us Boozer for Bargnani, I don't see why the hell in the world we should not accept it. Boozer can score and rebound, he's been an all star, he's been on winning teams and it's not like he was not playing good right now. And he just turned 31. We should accept this trade. I don't see what we could get better than Boozer. I know he got a huge contract... So what? What are we going to get anyway via free agency? Josh Smith? Al Jefferson? Yeah, you can dream folks. Also, Lowry won't ask for 20M$ a year when comes the time to re-sign him.
    I could not agree more.
    Not only this trade would help the team, but it would finally officially end an era (Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani) and start a fresh, positive one.
    I could not agree more.

  11. #8331
    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    It depends on who you are. You have to think of the different variables on which to measure a trade.

    Talent.
    Finance.
    Future.
    Short-term.
    Character.

    I would take Williams and Ridnour because at this point, it's about addressing the team needs. Boozer is a talented player, and has great character and helps out short-term, but it'll be difficult to sign/acquire players from deals, free agency, draft because of his contract hampering any sort of financial flexibility.

    Derrick Williams is on a rookie-scale contract, and if he doesn't show much improvement, you allow him to walk, or trade him as an asset to return another prospect player/picks/money. Ridnour is an expiring contract at 4$ million, so adding in Williams' contract - around 4-5$ million - that is 8$ million coming off the books if you don't pick up D.Will's 3rd year, and letting Ridnour walk.

    People talk about the cap not being an issue - regardless if MLSE is willing to spend - you can't exactly acquire players if you don't have the space in terms of finance to add them.

    Finance will be a huge part if this team decides to deal Andrea Bargnani. Taking in another long term contract, and if it's more expensive, it'll hurt.
    I just think if we go for Williams we run a much bigger risk of losing gay and lowry in the future.. I don't see Williams helping this team get better and I feel like bargnani and/or boozer have much more value on the market if they don't work out for us which will help us improve even if they don't work out for us. I don't think we'd ever get anything for Williams and we lose assets. Boozer can at least help us win in the short term which will make it more likely to resign gay and lowry and then on his expiring contract he can be a valuable asset on the trade market or his contract comes off the books and we have money to spend.

  12. #8332
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Guys! Ive come to the conclusion that Bargnanis value will be optimally reaped IF we trade for younger assists, focus on maximizing capspace, and maybe draft picks!

    Im thinking something along these lines:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bk2lmjc

    Beno Udrih + John Henson (+MAYBE 1st round pick) ---> Bargnani

    Reasoning for Bucks: Give up very little for a sharpshooting 7 footer who could play along side Larry Sanders. If there is anyone who could form a strong defensive lineup with the aboveaverage man-man defender Bargnani, would be the best rotating help, shotblocker in the game. Bargnani will finally stretch the floor for that sputtering Bucks offense. Giving up spare parts fo Bargnani without touching their core would help vault the Bucks to the next tier in the EC (up there with Indiana).

    Reasoning for Raptors:
    1) Beno Udrih is a high FG% veteran back up PG. Not a chucker like John Lucas. He will help stabilize the position for the rest of the season.

    2) Beno Udrih has a 7 Mil expiring contract, which will be the only way we can sign any free agent help this offseason. Shaking off Bargs 10mil contract with a 7Mil expiring is probably much wiser than the 'amnesty' Bargnani nonsense I keep hearing.

    3) John Henson is key. I advise everyone to go look at this stats when he is given actual minutes. Really go through his Game log. Milwaukee has a glut of young bigs, and John Henson feels it. But when he DOES play, he can go off, and be effecient and dangerous. He is very long, and only a rookie. I like the idea of moving Amir to the starting powerforward spot, and having this Rookie come together off the bench for us.

    4) The potential for an extra pick. This depends purely on Bargs' play coming back from injury. If he kills it and becomes more attractive, Milwaukees first round pick may become our asset. Its no lottery pick, but could be used for a high potential, low risk, center to further improve our depth.

    Lowry, Udrih
    Derozan, Ross
    Rudy, Fields
    Amir, John Henson
    Valancuinas, Gray

    -> extra 20-24th pick (High-upside low-risk Center)
    -> 7Mil off the books in the summer for potential FA signing. (Back up PG.... Calderon anyone?)
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  13. #8333
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't now. I was big on this deal a few days ago. I think it was just initial excitement because I feared BC would end up sticking us with a knucklehead like Tyrus Thomas.

    Boozer certainly has some things that we need, but I just don't trust his health, and do believe despite his strong season, he's very clearly on the decline. If we're goign to screw ourselves with a big contract, it either needs to be for a guy like Gasol (though with the injury this is not urgent) who can be shed quickly and also be a big contributor, or for a guy like Millsap or Jefferson, who can grow with this team....I'm not a big Smith fan...I think he's a guy who's production overstates his value on the court. That said, if he's your cup of tea, it still makes more sense to pay him than Boozer.

    No, if we're going to trade Bargnani for a big money PF, it has to maintain flexibility, or be a piece for the future...Boozer accomplishes neither of these things. He helps the team on the court a bit now, at least we ahve to assume he would, but is just a 2-year rental, and doesn't really put us over the top in that time. And we have to assume his trade value is not going to go up.

  14. #8334
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Guys! Ive come to the conclusion that Bargnanis value will be optimally reaped IF we trade for younger assists, focus on maximizing capspace, and maybe draft picks!

    Im thinking something along these lines:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bk2lmjc

    Beno Udrih + John Henson (+MAYBE 1st round pick) ---> Bargnani

    Reasoning for Bucks: Give up very little for a sharpshooting 7 footer who could play along side Larry Sanders. If there is anyone who could form a strong defensive lineup with the aboveaverage man-man defender Bargnani, would be the best rotating help, shotblocker in the game. Bargnani will finally stretch the floor for that sputtering Bucks offense. Giving up spare parts fo Bargnani without touching their core would help vault the Bucks to the next tier in the EC (up there with Indiana).

    Reasoning for Raptors:
    1) Beno Udrih is a high FG% veteran back up PG. Not a chucker like John Lucas. He will help stabilize the position for the rest of the season.

    2) Beno Udrih has a 7 Mil expiring contract, which will be the only way we can sign any free agent help this offseason. Shaking off Bargs 10mil contract with a 7Mil expiring is probably much wiser than the 'amnesty' Bargnani nonsense I keep hearing.

    3) John Henson is key. I advise everyone to go look at this stats when he is given actual minutes. Really go through his Game log. Milwaukee has a glut of young bigs, and John Henson feels it. But when he DOES play, he can go off, and be effecient and dangerous. He is very long, and only a rookie. I like the idea of moving Amir to the starting powerforward spot, and having this Rookie come together off the bench for us.

    4) The potential for an extra pick. This depends purely on Bargs' play coming back from injury. If he kills it and becomes more attractive, Milwaukees first round pick may become our asset. Its no lottery pick, but could be used for a high potential, low risk, center to further improve our depth.

    Lowry, Udrih
    Derozan, Ross
    Rudy, Fields
    Amir, John Henson
    Valancuinas, Gray

    -> extra 20-24th pick (High-upside low-risk Center)
    -> 7Mil off the books in the summer for potential FA signing. (Back up PG.... Calderon anyone?)
    Bucks have Ilyasova shooting 43% from 3pt and he rebounds.

    All the 'informed' journalists/analysts claim the Bucks are willing to move anyone and it is known the Raptors/Colangelo have coveted Ilyasova. Not sure how the Raptors can make a deal with the Bucks without including DeRozan.

    BTW, I do love your thinking here. Henson would be awesome. Picks would be awesome. Shedding salary would be good.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #8335
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    I just think if we go for Williams we run a much bigger risk of losing gay and lowry in the future.. I don't see Williams helping this team get better and I feel like bargnani and/or boozer have much more value on the market if they don't work out for us which will help us improve even if they don't work out for us. I don't think we'd ever get anything for Williams and we lose assets. Boozer can at least help us win in the short term which will make it more likely to resign gay and lowry and then on his expiring contract he can be a valuable asset on the trade market or his contract comes off the books and we have money to spend.
    Very true, but once his contract is off the books, it's possible Lowry and Gay are gone by than. Depending on the future success of the Raptors as well, Toronto isn't a high destination for players to sign to, and that's where finance comes in. i.e. Rudy Gay trade. Having space or money willing to acquire these bigger contracts, in return for talented players. Boozer is almost in the same mold, but paying 2 players $16+ million, one player entering prime, one entering decline, it becomes unpredictable whether Boozer can continue major contributions. Not to mention 10$+ million for Demar Derozan next 4 years, & Kyle Lowry worth about the same if extended.

    Deals have to be able to help out short term (Ridnour - expiring contract, strengthen the guard position) and our long term (Williams, prospect player, if non-improving, move CHEAP contract for prospects/picks).

    Like I said, it's just my opinion bringing in a prospect forward/big and a veteran point guard to the team. I wouldn't be angry with Boozer as well, heck, he's a talent upgrade, but how much can we improve after acquiring Boozer? Whilst Williams can grow into a talented player being on a cheap contract, with Ridnour's $4 million expiring, allowing extra space for re-singing/deals.

    With the new CBA, finance is a huge part REGARDLESS of talent, look at Memphis who gave up - arguably - their best player (I'm darn happy we're the landing spot), and teams continuously looking to gain space i.e. Utah, Atlanta.

  16. #8336
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    A lot of talent being shopped, and in my opinion, if we were going to pay max for another player, I'd rather have Milsap/Smith > Boozer any day of the week.

    Age, talent, and overall production on BOTH ends of the court are important. Smith and Milsap give that better than Boozer does at this point. Gotta think short-term, and long-term for this deal. Boozer with his contract is signed for long-term, but may not be the answer once the time comes.

  17. #8337
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Same post as above:

    Bargnani continues to prove the theory of the fine line between love and hate.

    I want to cheer for him. Deep down I actually want him to stay in Toronto because I know he can be a very good player to add to the mix - especially off the bench. But I can't do it because we've been down this road waaaaay too many times. The bar keeps getting lowered and he impresses for a while until we have to lower the bar again. There will come a time when he gets bored or whatever it is that causes the switch to flip to OFF and I am not sure the bar can get much lower than it currently is for a guy making $11M/$12M the next 2 years. Plus, I think we are at the point where we can wonder if he is injury prone.

    It is with a heavy heart I type #tradeBargnani despite the satisfaction from the last 2 games.
    Agreed

  18. #8338
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    1,000,000+ views have hit ladies and gentlemen!

    CEL......EBRATE GOOD TIMES. C'MON!

  19. #8339
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Hes a nice NEUTRAL guy, who is hard to hate, but easy to dislike as a player. That's why he has to go.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; Sat Feb 9th, 2013 at 05:30 PM.
    #FREE

  20. #8340
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    Quote pcrombeen wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's gotta go. Two decent shooting games do not negate the previous 7 years.

    Here's a trade I would love:

    Utah: Bargnani, Derozan
    Toronto: Milsap, Mo Williams

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

    Utah might do this trade if they don't want to pay Milsap what he'll get in free agency. Still, Favors is their guy at PF, so I'm not sure how they would feel about a three man rotation with Bargnani coming off the bench. As for Derozan, Utah is desperate for scoring on the wing, though it would depend how they view Derozan's value post contract extension.

    From Toronto's perspective, this trade would obviously by contingent on Milsap signing an extension (Mo could walk at the end of the season and I still love this deal). Even if we slightly overpay for Milsap, better to pay him 12-14M a season, than Bargnani and Derozan 20-22 combined.
    Some people need to educate themselves a little before suggesting pie in the shy trade proposals. It's NOT possible to sign Millsap to an extension. Any trade for him carries the very real risk that he walks on July 1st. Williams could do the same, so you think trading Bargs and DD for 2 month rentals is a good plan?

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