Bargnani for... Boozer?!?!

[ReubenJRD]

Sadly the Raptors won't get a good contract in exchange for a bad contract. Even Gay is a bad contract.

All the Raptors can hope for is someone better than Bargnani - which is not overly difficult to pull off.

Which might be a negative, because we'd have to take in players not good enough to get us over the hump - Wright, Hawes - good players steadily declining on big contracts - Boozer, Gasol, Gordon - or players who you don't know about, whether they will re-sign or even be a contributor for the long-term - Ilyasova, Millsap.

Obviously there are positives there, and they most likely would be solid for our team, but with the above mentioned, it seems to really outweigh some other factors.

[bobbybutler]

New stat porn for today:

Boozer traded to Toronto would put him #1 on the team in Defensive Rating for this season at 100. Gay is #1 at 103 (small sample of course) and Amir is #2 at 104

Comical...is the only respectful way to describe what you did there. Using your method of comparison Varejao(109) would be the Raptors 6th "best" defender, only 1 point better than Bargnani(110).

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213CLE1.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR1.HTM

[Matt52]

Comical...is the only respectful way to describe what you did there. Using your method of comparison Varejao(109) would be the Raptors 6th "best" defender, only 1 point better than Bargnani(110).

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213CLE1.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR1.HTM

Yeah, not my greatest work.

Still better than the argument of comparing 2 guys off court production across two different teams.

[TRX]

@ Matt52:

My bad, I did misinterpret. If I'm reading correctly now, you meant Chicago has more garbage time in games. Of course... but how is that relevant? I have already accepted that Boozer is an upgrade over Bargnani. Will he contribute to Toronto being more competitive? Only if the Raptors insist on giving Bargnani significant minutes. But that's not conceding anything since there is a third option which I already mentioned.

Oh, that's impressive. So instead of seventh, he's been upgraded to essentially their worst starter and somehow, this is a point in his favour. Even if he were on the Raptors, there are players that should get playing time ahead of Boozer. I hope you realize you're advocating trading the worst player on the Raptors making $10 million a year for a bit player making $15 million a year. Neither player is really significant at all in the grand scheme of things, but one makes a more significant amount of money than the other. In a vacuum, of course I'd rather have Boozer than Bargnani. Nobody has really argued that one for one, Boozer is not a better player. But when neither player should really be seeing significant minutes on the floor, how does that help at all? You're acting like anybody wants to hold onto Bargnani; they (and I) would just rather not have a more expensive outcast instead.

Just because Bargnani makes eight figures does not mean the Raptors are obligated to give him time on the court. If he's hurting the team, logically, he should be seeing no floor time. If Boozer is a below average contributor, plug in an average contributor - and this is the key - that is already on the Raptors. No need to pay an extra $4+ million to bring one in.

And lol. Who's comparing "2 guys off court production across two different teams"? For someone who says facts are key, you sure do like to misrepresent and twist them. All I've said is Boozer is a consistently significant detriment defensively (yes, much like Bargnani), while not improving teams enough on offence to make up for it on both the Jazz and the Bulls.

[Matt52]

@ Matt52:

My bad, I did misinterpret. If I'm reading correctly now, you meant Chicago has more garbage time in games. Of course... but how is that relevant? I have already accepted that Boozer is an upgrade over Bargnani. Will he contribute to Toronto being more competitive? Only if the Raptors insist on giving Bargnani significant minutes. But that's not conceding anything since there is a third option which I already mentioned.

Oh, that's impressive. So instead of seventh, he's been upgraded to essentially their worst starter and somehow, this is a point in his favour. Even if he were on the Raptors, there are players that should get playing time ahead of Boozer. I hope you realize you're advocating trading the worst player on the Raptors making $10 million a year for a bit player making $15 million a year. Neither player is really significant at all in the grand scheme of things, but one makes a more significant amount of money than the other. In a vacuum, of course I'd rather have Boozer than Bargnani. Nobody has really argued that one for one, Boozer is not a better player. But when neither player should really be seeing significant minutes on the floor, how does that help at all? You're acting like anybody wants to hold onto Bargnani; they (and I) would just rather not have a more expensive outcast instead.

Just because Bargnani makes eight figures does not mean the Raptors are obligated to give him time on the court. If he's hurting the team, logically, he should be seeing no floor time. If Boozer is a below average contributor, plug in an average contributor - and this is the key - that is already on the Raptors. No need to pay an extra $4+ million to bring one in.

And lol. Who's comparing "2 guys off court production across two different teams"? For someone who says facts are key, you sure do like to misrepresent and twist them. All I've said is Boozer is a consistently significant detriment defensively (yes, much like Bargnani), while not improving teams enough on offence to make up for it on both the Jazz and the Bulls.

First bold:
He is the leading scorer and rebounder per36 on the #5 seed in the east missing their franchise player and recent MVP. He is also one of just 9 players averaging over 9 rebounds and 15 points. Yeah, garbage that guy.

Second bold:
Yeah, lets just sit 19% of the salary cap because at least he won't make us lose.

Third bold:
What player are you going to sign for $4M that scores more and more efficiently and gives you more than double the rebounds? Remember you are sitting Bargnani so you are paying him $11M but now you have $4M to find a player to make up Boozer's production.

Fourth:
On/Off court net? Isn't that what you were going on about prior? Didn't you repeatedly refer to the play of Chicago and Toronto with each player Off the court and how much better Chicago was?


Conclusion:
This is getting tiring.

[Puffer]

...Conclusion:
This is getting tiring.

Conclusion: Time to bow out. Somebody let somebody else have the last word. ;-)

[mtth]

Linus Kleiza on the trading block: http://www.lrytas.lt/-13611714541360...klub%C4%85.htm

[Matt52]

Not that it means much but Brotherston @HoopsWorld.com is a fan of acquring Boozer.

If MLSE & Colangelo really want to give Raptors fans hope – they’ll open their big very fat wallet and do the heavily rumored deal for Carlos Boozer – that deal takes the Bulls out of the tax and makes the Raptors a luxury tax team. It’s time for the very deep pocketed ownership in Toronto to prove they want a winner – Rogers, Bell & MLSE can afford the cost of the Raptors being a tax team – Every Single Year! The long suffering Toronto fans deserve it – it’s time to get a playoff team back in the Big Smoke

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...or8ZHJ471Ys.99

Steve

How come Toronto isn’t going after guys like Josh Smith, Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson? If colangelo wants his job he has to get talent like that to pair up with the core of Demar, Rudy, Lowry and even boozer might be a guy that makes immediate impact. The thought of those players not re-signing in Toronto is ridiculous because that core with them is a dangerous team in the east.

Stephen Brotherston

Smith, Millsap, Jefferson are all on expiring deals – sure there is a deal to be made with those teams, what should Colangelo give up to get a guy who is likely to leave the Raptors in July?

The difference with Boozer is there is 2 more seasons on his deal.

The thought of guys not re-signing in Toronto after playing here for 2 months is not only reasonable, it should be considered likely – that’s way too much risk to take when the team’s only big dollar trade asset is Bargnani and you can only use that asset 1 time. It is far safer to go after guys on expiring deals in the summer as sign & trades.

Steve

If theres absolutely no good deal for bargnani in terms of talent coming to Toronto, will they just do the boozer deal? I don’t think guys like Gordon, hawes, ilyasova will be the final piece to the puzzle.

Stephen Brotherston

If the fans sit on their hands and don’t start making it obvious they would love a Bargnani for Boozer deal – we might just see MLSE sit on their wallet and think they have done enough.

Gordon does nothing for the Raptors – that’s a very bad idea. Hawes or Ilyasova aren’t bad deals, but they aren’t the impact move adding Boozer would be. Those are the kind of deals that suggest the team is doing solid basketball moves within the luxury tax cap, but maybe they’ll never actually venture beyond that level of spending.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...or8ZHJ471Ys.99

#tradeBargnani

Would you trade Bargnani/JL3 for Boozer/Robinson? What about if a 1st round pick was included from Chicago?

What do you think the odds are of Bargnani getting moved before deadline?

Stephen Brotherston

Other than I’d rather sub in Acy and keep Lucas – I’m doing this deal.

A Bargnani trade – should be better than 50/50 – it should be 100%, but we just don’t know how far MLSE is prepared to go

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...or8ZHJ471Ys.99

2. I want to see a Boozer for Bargs deal – I want MLSE to finally start spending those profits to make the team as good as it can be, legit contender or merely pretender, at this point I don’t really care

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...or8ZHJ471Ys.99

Kuda

If Andrea is not traded im still ok with that,but if they are going to make a push why dont they do the Boozer/Robinson trade then? Push for either Smith or Milsap.

Stephen Brotherston

I am okay with Bargnani not being traded as well – no deal is better than a bad or risky deal.

I’m all-in on the idea of a trade for Boozer – becoming a luxury tax team proves MLSE is committed to winning.

Millsap or Smith are deals that should wait until the summer as S&T – no rent-a-player deals right now

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...or8ZHJ471Ys.99

[Matt52]

a game like this vs memphis it would be nice to throw it down on the block to Boozer

[Rapstor4Life]

Should of happened during All Star and Imo we would be legit ending at the 8th spot. BC! shed the past already!

[GoldenBaller]

a game like this vs memphis it would be nice to throw it down on the block to Boozer

Very True.

[YYZ]

Meh, I just hope JV learns post moves in the offseason. The Raps have no inside game, and there outside game is non existent since Jose left. Boozer is not a good enough reason to go into the luxury tax.

[Soft Euro]

I'm actually happy we didn't get Boozer. I guess he would have gotten big minutes and I think he's way too slow to fit in with the rest of our team and he doesn't much of anything on offense beyond 5 ft.

[Matt52]

I'm actually happy we didn't get Boozer. I guess he would have gotten big minutes and I think he's way too slow to fit in with the rest of our team and he doesn't much of anything on offense beyond 5 ft.

Raps are 25th in pace - speed hardly an issue... unless 89.3 vs 89.8 is that big of a difference (Bulls 27th).

An inside scoring presence would be a good thing.

96 minutes between JV, Amir, and Boozer would have been easily split.

Raps are also 28th in rebounding.... he'd help that.


Buuuuuuut this is obviously a dead issue now.

Good things happen to those who wait.... supposedly.

[Matt52]

From a basketball perspective, looking back this trade should have been a no brainer.

In the last 8 games, Chicago has gone 6-2. The schedule has been fairly weak but they did end MIami's 27 game win streak, beat Indiana, and beat Brooklyn. Two losses have been by 4 to WSH and 2 to DAL.

Everyone knows Rose is out for the season but your franchise PG is out; Noah has been out for 8 games; Bellinelli has been out for 7 games; Gibson was injured 3 games ago and has missed last 2; Hamilton has not played since February 26th.

The Bulls are basically rolling a lineup of Hinrich, Robinson, Butler, Deng, Boozer, Mohammad.... and winning!

Not giving all the credit to Boozer as Deng has played well and Thibs is obviously one of the best coaches in the game right now, BUT, Boozer has been averaging about 20 points, 13 rebounds, 3 assists shooting nearly 55%.


From a financial perspective (and assuming it was the Raps who said NO) I understand why the Raps said no. Becoming a tax team this season would have made them a REPEATER tax team in 2014-15.

How bad is the repeater tax? At the first level of luxury tax -- up to $5 million over the threshold -- the base tax will be $1.50 for every dollar over the line. The repeater tax is $2.50 for every dollar over the line. It matches as you rise up the ladder from there -- the repeater tax is always $1 per dollar in exceedance of the threshold more than the base rate. For $20 million over the threshold, that's a $20 million difference based on whether you're a repeater or not.

Here's an example. Let's assume the luxury tax threshold rises to $75 million by 2014-15. Let's say a team like the Lakers has a payroll of $95 million -- $20 million over the threshold. If they were not repeater, their total tax payment would be $45 million, and their total payroll would be $140 million. If they were a repeater, their total tax payment would be $65 million, and their total payroll would be $160 million.

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/20/40...3-repeater-tax

Fingers crossed for Boozer's health and Chicago's frugality.

[Chr1s1anL]

Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE

[Chr1s1anL]

If you had your choice for this current team. Who would you pick?


Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE


Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE

[isaacthompson]

Marc J Spears: Bargnani is gone. I do not see him going back to Toronto unless he's a visitor. Keep an eye on teams like Chicago Bulls. That would be a team that could be interested in him. Yahoo! Sports
TORONTO RAPTORS, TRADE, ANDREA BARGNANI | SHARE

I think at this point, even boneheaded Colangelo knows Bargs is gone this summer. Still have a sliver of hope that Bargnani-Boozer deal is still alive.

[Chr1s1anL]

I think at this point, even boneheaded Colangelo knows Bargs is gone this summer. Still have a sliver of hope that Bargnani-Boozer deal is still alive.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/nba-stars-move-001500188.html - source

[Chr1s1anL]

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/nba-st...001500188.html

video of the interview