Bargnani for... Boozer?!?!

[charlesnba23]

A bag of chips doesn't cost $16M per season each of the next 2 years.

A bag of chips wouldn't make the Raptors a luxury tax paying team.

A bag of chips wouldn't destroy the already limited financial flexibility of the franchise over the next 2.5 seasons.

A bag of chips allows the Raps to make subsequent roster moves and still have all exceptions availble in the offseason.

I don't stand with the point of limiting ourselves of really good players because of the financial argument. Look at the good teams, how they are build. Or at least the power houses because I wanted to include Boston and the Lakers in my exemple. 3 to 5 guys paid a whole lot of money, then good backups that signs for not much to get in a good team. If we have Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan, Rudy Gay, Carlos Boozer, surrounded by a bunch of other pretty good players, I don't see why we should worry about the money from here going to 2015?

[pesterm1]

A bag of chips doesn't cost $16M per season each of the next 2 years.

A bag of chips wouldn't make the Raptors a luxury tax paying team.

A bag of chips wouldn't destroy the already limited financial flexibility of the franchise over the next 2.5 seasons.

A bag of chips allows the Raps to make subsequent roster moves and still have all exceptions availble in the offseason.

I think you want to be a rebuilding team. The raptors dont. thats what it comes down to. I heard the same stuff before Gay became a Raptor and everyone wised up. Im on the boozer wagon now and I bet everyone changes their tune when he comes here. Like I said, ROGERS doesnt care about the money ( look at the Blue Jays), so I have no clue why fans are so worried about the money. Do they like idea of cap flex. so they can ponder at the trade machine all day long ? In 2015 there will be a ton of cap space so its not like were are screwed forever.

Rogers fixed the Jays, tried to fix the leafs but Burke wouldnt comply and lost his job over it, and now they are fixing the Raptors. The money isnt the problem, Rogers just wants players that will be exiting, bring in fans and make the playoffs for revenue. We probably wont wing the championship but neither will 29 other teams. IMO this is a great start for us. SPEND THE DOUGH BC!

[Red and White]

None of that would suprise me. I'm alot more convinced than most that Colangelo won't be trading Bargnani.

Besides his traditional attachment to Bargs, I think Toronto would end up having to give up something just to make it work. Speculation on my part but I'm willing to bet there is/was alot more to this deal than meets the eye, especially because Boozer for Bargs straight up doesn't work. I can easily see the discussion being Boozer for Bargs + Ross.

If BC said Ross is off the table for Gay, than he is off the table for Boozer too. No doubt about it.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I don't stand with the point of limiting ourselves of really good players because of the financial argument. Look at the good teams, how they are build. Or at least the power houses because I wanted to include Boston and the Lakers in my exemple. 3 to 5 guys paid a whole lot of money, then good backups that signs for not much to get in a good team. If we have Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan, Rudy Gay, Carlos Boozer, surrounded by a bunch of other pretty good players, I don't see why we should worry about the money from here going to 2015?

I think you want to be a rebuilding team. The raptors dont. thats what it comes down to. I heard the same stuff before Gay became a Raptor and everyone wised up. Im on the boozer wagon now and I bet everyone changes their tune when he comes here. Like I said, ROGERS doesnt care about the money ( look at the Blue Jays), so I have no clue why fans are so worried about the money. Do they like idea of cap flex. so they can ponder at the trade machine all day long ? In 2015 there will be a ton of cap space so its not like were are screwed forever.

Rogers fixed the Jays, tried to fix the leafs but Burke wouldnt comply and lost his job over it, and now they are fixing the Raptors. The money isnt the problem, Rogers just wants players that will be exiting, bring in fans and make the playoffs for revenue. We probably wont wing the championship but neither will 29 other teams. IMO this is a great start for us. SPEND THE DOUGH BC!

You've missed my other posts where I state that I'm not a fan of Boozer, think he's overrated and a minimal upgrade talent-wise over Bargnani. For me, it's not just financial, it's both financial and talent.

Gay was a totally different acquisition. At 26, he has 5-7 years in his prime to grow with the team's young core; Boozer does not. Gay is not just a 'win now' player, he's potentially with the Raptors for the long-term; Boozer wouldn't be.

We can disagree on Boozer VS Bargnani on a talent debate, and I'd fully respect your opinion. For me, the upgrade of talent (if any at all) isn't worth the financial noose around the Raptors' neck for the next 2.5 years (the deal would make the Raps a luxury tax team and say goodbye to exceptions in the offseason to sign new players), especially since Boozer is 31 and won't be around for the long-term.


PS: My opinion would be different if the NBA operated without a salary cap, like MLB, but it doesn't. You can't compare Blue Jays spending and Raptors spending, because they're on completely different financial fields.

[pesterm1]

These threads get really big, really quickly . my bad.

I dno for me I think Bargnani could work here but its time to move on. Im sure he will be happier on chicago fwith Beli.

I see Boozer being a good player to even help Johnson and teach him a few things. I dont think Boozer is a MUST HAVE player but he certainly would be an upgrade imo. The money is just a non factor for me. It's not mine so i dont care. We overpay everyone because we have to so its not a big deal. We could amnesty Klieza this off season, keep our rookies and step into next year with more talent. Our rookies have a lot of upside as well as our younger players so im optimistic about the future.

Maybe Boozer even gets flipped for Pau in the offseason too ? who knows.

[p00ka]

I don't stand with the point of limiting ourselves of really good players because of the financial argument. Look at the good teams, how they are build. Or at least the power houses because I wanted to include Boston and the Lakers in my exemple. 3 to 5 guys paid a whole lot of money, then good backups that signs for not much to get in a good team. If we have Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan, Rudy Gay, Carlos Boozer, surrounded by a bunch of other pretty good players, I don't see why we should worry about the money from here going to 2015?

In case you haven't looked lately, Boston is barely fighting for a playoff spot in the East, and the Lakers are in 10th spot in the West, with severely limited options toward correcting their issues,,,,,,, because of financial constraints under the new CBA. If you want to look at "good teams", OKC would be a good example of why teams should be concerned about paying the kind of dollars Boozer would cost. They traded away Harden because they didn't want to pay him the $ Boozer is earning. It would be a different story of Boozer was a superstar, but he's not, never has been, never will be, and if you think AB's defense is poor, you need to pay attention to Boozer's defense, despite all these years with Sloan and Thibs.

[ReubenJRD]

Some really good points being thrown around.

In my opinion, Boozer IS an upgrade in terms of talent to Bargnani. Offensively, better suited to this team because of our traditional perimeter lineup. Finance isn't a problem long term (in 2015), especially with his expiring contract - near 16$ million - moves can be made to address that position when the time comes. An exceptional low-post scorer - something this team severely lacks - and a terrific rebounder - not enough consistency at the rebounding department.

Here is the problem.

Carlos Boozer is 31 years old, and this is a fast-paced team. Defensively - statistically wise, and eye test - is barely better than Bargnani is on that side of the court. Long term on the court, it would not be a fit after say, this year or next year. The guy's play will decline, his numbers will drop over time, and we'll be paying him a large sum when time comes around when he turns into a mere veteran player.

With the already limited cap space starting next season in paying Derozan 10$ million, Gay 17$ million, likely re-signing Lowry to a similar deal to Derozan, and B.C. continuously bringing in pieces every off-season, it's going to be extremely hard to balance in ways the team can address both talent, and their worth. Which means, getting talented players and not overpaying them. i.e. Amir Johnson. Many fans originally thought he was a little overpaid, but he's lived up to his contract ever since his arrival, and it attests to his value for the team. If anything, with how valuable he is to the team, maybe he's a mil or so underpaid.

Overall, I wouldn't be upset with a deal like this, nor would I be ecstatic. Basically I'd be content with a deal of this magnitude, especially with so many variables to account for short-term, and long-term.

I would rather trade Andrea Bargnani + Alan Anderson + 2nd Round Picks to Minnesota for a prospect big/forward (Derrick Williams) and a veteran point guard (Ridnour - expiring contract), or something of this similarity.

If anything, keep Bargnani till the end of the season, and deal him than with more insurance on finance, players, etc.

[FoxMachine]

Some really good points being thrown around.

In my opinion, Boozer IS an upgrade in terms of talent to Bargnani. Offensively, better suited to this team because of our traditional perimeter lineup. Finance isn't a problem long term (in 2015), especially with his expiring contract - near 16$ million - moves can be made to address that position when the time comes. An exceptional low-post scorer - something this team severely lacks - and a terrific rebounder - not enough consistency at the rebounding department.

Here is the problem.

Carlos Boozer is 31 years old, and this is a fast-paced team. Defensively - statistically wise, and eye test - is barely better than Bargnani is on that side of the court. Long term on the court, it would not be a fit after say, this year or next year. The guy's play will decline, his numbers will drop over time, and we'll be paying him a large sum when time comes around when he turns into a mere veteran player.

With the already limited cap space starting next season in paying Derozan 10$ million, Gay 17$ million, likely re-signing Lowry to a similar deal to Derozan, and B.C. continuously bringing in pieces every off-season, it's going to be extremely hard to balance in ways the team can address both talent, and their worth. Which means, getting talented players and not overpaying them. i.e. Amir Johnson. Many fans originally thought he was a little overpaid, but he's lived up to his contract ever since his arrival, and it attests to his value for the team. If anything, with how valuable he is to the team, maybe he's a mil or so underpaid.

Overall, I wouldn't be upset with a deal like this, nor would I be ecstatic. Basically I'd be content with a deal of this magnitude, especially with so many variables to account for short-term, and long-term.

I would rather trade Andrea Bargnani + Alan Anderson + 2nd Round Picks to Minnesota for a prospect big/forward (Derrick Williams) and a veteran point guard (Ridnour - expiring contract), or something of this similarity.

If anything, keep Bargnani till the end of the season, and deal him than with more insurance on finance, players, etc.

im in the same boat in terms of not being upset if this deal goes through, nor being ecstatic. Though maybe that's a reason it shouldn't be done if there are better deals to be had. But if it came down to the boozer deal or a deal for Williams, I would 100% choose the boozer deal

[ReubenJRD]

im in the same boat in terms of not being upset if this deal goes through, nor being ecstatic. Though maybe that's a reason it shouldn't be done if there are better deals to be had. But if it came down to the boozer deal or a deal for Williams, I would 100% choose the boozer deal

It depends on who you are. You have to think of the different variables on which to measure a trade.

Talent.
Finance.
Future.
Short-term.
Character.

I would take Williams and Ridnour because at this point, it's about addressing the team needs. Boozer is a talented player, and has great character and helps out short-term, but it'll be difficult to sign/acquire players from deals, free agency, draft because of his contract hampering any sort of financial flexibility.

Derrick Williams is on a rookie-scale contract, and if he doesn't show much improvement, you allow him to walk, or trade him as an asset to return another prospect player/picks/money. Ridnour is an expiring contract at 4$ million, so adding in Williams' contract - around 4-5$ million - that is 8$ million coming off the books if you don't pick up D.Will's 3rd year, and letting Ridnour walk.

People talk about the cap not being an issue - regardless if MLSE is willing to spend - you can't exactly acquire players if you don't have the space in terms of finance to add them.

Finance will be a huge part if this team decides to deal Andrea Bargnani. Taking in another long term contract, and if it's more expensive, it'll hurt.

[NoPropsneeded]

I'd do it if they include Nate Robinson or Marquis teague. Then we throw in Alan Anderson

[Ambidextrious]

Forget Boozer if we could somehow get Taj Gibson for Bargnani I wouldn't hesitate to do that. Only problem is the salaries don't match up Bargnani makes 8 million more a year than Bargnani. The bulls would go deep into the luxury tax, and we all know that's not going to happen for a team that has never been in that situation before.

[Balls of Steel]

This trade makes my underpants tingle.

[tkfu]

Forget Boozer if we could somehow get Taj Gibson for Bargnani I wouldn't hesitate to do that. Only problem is the salaries don't match up Bargnani makes 8 million more a year than Bargnani. The bulls would go deep into the luxury tax, and we all know that's not going to happen for a team that has never been in that situation before.

Forget Taj Gibson if we could somehow get Derrick Rose for Bargnani I wouldn't hesitate to do that.

...the Bulls love Gibson, for good reason. He's the biggest part of the reason they're so eager to trade Booz.

[ReubenJRD]

Forget Boozer if we could somehow get Taj Gibson for Bargnani I wouldn't hesitate to do that. Only problem is the salaries don't match up Bargnani makes 8 million more a year than Bargnani. The bulls would go deep into the luxury tax, and we all know that's not going to happen for a team that has never been in that situation before.

I think the one reason Chicago is even willing to trade Boozer, is because of Taj Gibson. He's not a downgrade if he were to be plugged into the starting lineup, and playing the minutes Boozer does. Taj is a solid defender, and he will improve. Great rebounder, mid-range game for the big man, versatile, fairly athletic, and a young player on a good contract.

I would love to have Boozer, only if we could somehow acquire Marquis Teague. He's a solid prospect point guard, who should have been a lottery pick had he not played for Kentucky. Can shoot the ball, great handle, terrific finishing, athletic, a solid passer, solid defender.

Otherwise, try and find a better deal.

[badbob]

No way should the Raptor's do this trade! They want to compete at a young age and get another young PF such as Millsap something in this calibur plus being young and not 32 yrs old and demanding the kind of money he is getting. It would be a very bad move in my opinion!!! We need a tough guy such as Boozer but at a much younger age so he can develope with our other young players and compete for years to come!!

[TRex]

Brutal contract + age. I'm worried. I say no to Boozer.

[NoPropsneeded]

I say make a push for Big Al. Utah is looking super mediocre right now and i think they want Favours or Kanter starting at the 5 and develop them for the future. We, as fans shouldn't worry about money, BC will resign him to some crazy big ass contract but it will be worth it.

[NoPropsneeded]

Something like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=agqpbmt

not sure Utah would do it tho

[NoPropsneeded]

Or we hang on to bargs and trade him for a backup PG and some picks. Then in the off season we offer Millsap or Big Al a huge contract

[psrs1]

I think you want to be a rebuilding team. The raptors dont. thats what it comes down to. I heard the same stuff before Gay became a Raptor and everyone wised up. Im on the boozer wagon now and I bet everyone changes their tune when he comes here. Like I said, ROGERS doesnt care about the money ( look at the Blue Jays), so I have no clue why fans are so worried about the money. Do they like idea of cap flex. so they can ponder at the trade machine all day long ? In 2015 there will be a ton of cap space so its not like were are screwed forever.
Ok bring on boozer.
Rogers fixed the Jays, tried to fix the leafs but Burke wouldnt comply and lost his job over it, and now they are fixing the Raptors. The money isnt the problem, Rogers just wants players that will be exiting, bring in fans and make the playoffs for revenue. We probably wont wing the championship but neither will 29 other teams. IMO this is a great start for us. SPEND THE DOUGH BC!

OK bring on boozer.