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Thread: Terrence Ross is over-rated.

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    I think T Ross now is like Marshoon Brooks a season ago. He also had huge potential but so far he hasn't really developed as expected. Yes - he doesn't have the handles of Brooks but he has got more hops.I would love to see him develop - BUT he may never develop. There are many players with potential but the rare ones are those who work really hard,are put in the right system,don't get seiously injured etc.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I think Terrence Ross can be looked upon as overrated for the simple reason that he's considered untouchable.

    I don't think the Raptors, in their best interest, should trade Terrence Ross. I think it would be a big mistake to do so.. in fact I think Ross has a higher potential of becoming a good player than JV does. But anyway, when I read about how we are trying to improve the team and move pieces around and Terrence Ross is "untouchable" that comes across to me as nutso.

    In that particular sense, he's overrated by Colangelo. But in every other sense, this thread just seems like trolling to me

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Default Terrence Ross shooting Analysis

    I'd like to delve (a little) into his shooting percentages from different areas.

    First of all, I think people overrate the percentage of shots a player should make. If you don't take into account shots at the rim, the average league percentage in every area is below 40%! Source Of course you'd like all players to only take shots at the rim, but I'm pretty sure we all agree that's not happening.

    A very high percentage of his shots, almost 47%, are from threepointrange. Clearly this has a huge impact on his overall shooting percentage. And clearly this is by design; the team wants him to spread the floor and take threes. His 3pt% from above the break is around the league average of 36%. It's his corner three which drags his 3pt% so far, but he has shot less of them (13,6% against 33% above the break). Source The gap between being a league average 3pt shooter and Ross isn't very high. It's not like teams can gameplan around it and give him the three because it gives them a better shot at winning. With Ross' volume, it's 1 make or miss more about every 12 games ...

    Inside upside!
    One thing to love about Ross is his shooting percentage at the rim and the way he gets them (of course it's early days in his career, so there is a small sample size alert). Looking at the stats of nba.com, he finishes an amazing 72% of his shots around the rim. That's territory few players get to.

    Looking further into these numbers at hoopdata is also interesting. I looked at shooting guards playing at least 30 games. Hoopdata has him at 80%, maybe because it is only updated through february 3th (the dropoff reïnforces the small sample size idea, but either percentage would be very high). On hoopdata he ranks second among shooting guards (this would not be very different looking at all players by the way). But in the top 10 he has the smallest percentage off shots assisted which means he's very good on break-outs and/or he creates them himself. Both are promising. Source

    Right now he's only taking about 17% of his shots at the rim and getting that up would probably mean some regression in percentage. But even with some regression he just might be a high percentage finisher around the rim. Couple that with an even slightly improved outside shot and he will be a very dangerous offensive player!

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think Terrence Ross can be looked upon as overrated for the simple reason that he's considered untouchable.

    In that particular sense, he's overrated by Colangelo
    . But in every other sense, this thread just seems like trolling to me
    This is really what I was getting at, I've repeatedly seen people post about how we can't trade this guy and read that Colangelo had deemed him untouchable, and he's done nothing to warrant that. He's got some potential surely, but I think there are some poeple who are massively overvaluing him.

    Joey Graham looked pretty athletic and shot threes in his rookie year too. Now that's trolling!
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    This is really what I was getting at, I've repeatedly seen people post about how we can't trade this guy and read that Colangelo had deemed him untouchable, and he's done nothing to warrant that. He's got some potential surely, but I think there are some poeple who are massively overvaluing him.

    Joey Graham looked pretty athletic and shot threes in his rookie year too. Now that's trolling!
    Haha.. Joey Graham had no basketball IQ at all.. but I know you're just finding an example.

    That's exactly the problem. You can't deem a guy untouchable this early in his career. It could come back and bite us in the arse but then again you could also look back and think holy $!@# we could had that guy!

    So there are things like that where you cannot make a guy untouchable unless you are absolutely sure he is the real deal, and with Terrence Ross you simply cannot know he's the real deal yet.


    All said I do like him a lot. It has to be a really good deal, for example trading for a guy you envision Terrence Ross could become (not the ceiling, but close to it), or another such prospect similar to him.
    Last edited by ebrian; Fri Feb 8th, 2013 at 02:55 PM.
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Hilariously ignorant thread

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    This is really what I was getting at, I've repeatedly seen people post about how we can't trade this guy and read that Colangelo had deemed him untouchable, and he's done nothing to warrant that. He's got some potential surely, but I think there are some poeple who are massively overvaluing him.

    Joey Graham looked pretty athletic and shot threes in his rookie year too. Now that's trolling!
    I think that is a fair statement.

    The reality is though, Terrence Ross by himself is not going to bring you in a Kevin Love talent and the Raptors don't have the other assets to make a package to get a talent like that.

    The types of players the Raptors have been discussing - Gay, Gasol, Boozer - are not worth giving him up for when you consider other teams issues and reasons for seeking trades.

    Then there are the unrestricted free agents (Jefferson, Millsap, Smith) who could bolt so you aren't going to give up any assets to make those trades either considering they could leave in 5 months.

    Looking at the Raptors roster and Ross also provides a skill set no other player can match and certainly not for his price over the rest of this season and the following 3.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think that is a fair statement.

    The reality is though, Terrence Ross by himself is not going to bring you in a Kevin Love talent and the Raptors don't have the other assets to make a package to get a talent like that.

    The types of players the Raptors have been discussing - Gay, Gasol, Boozer - are not worth giving him up for when you consider other teams issues and reasons for seeking trades.

    Then there are the unrestricted free agents (Jefferson, Millsap, Smith) who could bolt so you aren't going to give up any assets to make those trades either considering they could leave in 5 months.

    Looking at the Raptors roster and Ross also provides a skill set no other player can match and certainly not for his price over the rest of this season and the following 3.
    Agree with everthing here. If Josh Smith would sign an extension, would you trade Ross and Bargs for him? Just wondering what you see as his value. I'd probably do that deal.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Agree with everthing here. If Josh Smith would sign an extension, would you trade Ross and Bargs for him? Just wondering what you see as his value. I'd probably do that deal.
    Honestly, I don't know.

    50/50

    Smith is looking for a max and I don't think he is worth that.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Amazing shot form, with range ... crazy athleticism ... defensive commitment ... this thought in your head?It was over-rated.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  11. #31
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I don't get why people say this kid is untouchable. I know he's athletic and could develop into a nice piece, but has anyone looked at his stats? His shooting is terrible and that's supposed to be his best trait (41% fg, 33% 3 pt). His handles are average at best, he doesn't have any size advantage at his postion, his defense, while better than expected, has not been great, and he's already showing an alarming desire to take long shots instead of trying to drive. He's average at best for a first rounder.

    I'm not saying that Ross can't become a nice player, I think he could even be a starter eventually if he works hard, but the only reason you make a young player untouchable is if he looks like he is going to become a star for you, and that is not Ross.

    His trade value is very high, and I think that if you get an oppurtunity to improve your team by using him in a package with a high priced player, you do it.
    I hear you. I watched quite a few of his games at Washington the past few years and while always a talented player I never once saw him play and thought he was a potential star when he hits the NBA. He has great athleticism and a solid jumper but no handles to speak of, short arms and I can't comment on his passing ability.

    To me, if the right deal comes along I could definitely make him a part of a package to get a better player.

    It's interesting that people say that he is better than Demar when he came into the league (which is true) but thats not to say his development will eclipse Demar's. They are completely different players.

    I like Ross but how everyone freaks on this guy like he's going to be an all-star 2 guard in this league I don't get it cause I don't see it in his game.

  12. #32
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    I am a TRoss fan. When he's on the floor I'm hoping to see him make big splashes or the high flying act. He is actually my favorite Raptor. While I acknowledge he has a long way to go before we call him one of the leagues best players or even one of the Raptor's best but from a strictly entertainment perspective when he is on, he's a blast!

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter RPT23's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    How does that make Ross "overrated" though?

    All it means is that you'd trade a good young player with lots of skill/potential, for an even better young player that has even more skill/potential. That's just common sense, which has nothing to do with under/over-rating a player.

    It sounds to me like people don't have any concern with him being "overrated", but rather take issue with BC referring to him as "untouchable". To those people, I would say take BC's words with a grain of salt; "untouchable" is a relative term, it doesn't mean that BC would never trade Ross, just that it would take another "untouchable" player coming back in return.
    I 100% agree with this response. In addition, if this thread is all about how Ross is over-rated (seems like it's based on stats, primarily) then we can likely include Jonas into this discussion. Ross (like Jonas) has all the tools to become a special player in this league. There's no telling whether or not he'll turn into a superstar as that's yet remains to be seen, but the flashes that he's shown so far indicates that he can become a very productive player given the right direction and influences. And as a GM, you tend to hold on to those types of players a lot tighter than say a player like Quincy Acy.
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  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Ross has a unique skillset for a SG. I mean, he's a great 3pt shooter, great defender and is insanely athletic.

    I dare you, give me an SG in the NBA that can do all those things.

    If Ross develops all the skills that he has, he's going to be a beast.
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  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter RPT23's Avatar
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    Quote RPT23 wrote: View Post
    I 100% agree with this response. In addition, if this thread is all about how Ross is over-rated (seems like it's based on stats, primarily) then we can likely include Jonas into this discussion. Ross (like Jonas) has all the tools to become a special player in this league. There's no telling whether or not he'll turn into a superstar as that's yet remains to be seen, but the flashes that he's shown so far indicates that he can become a very productive player given the right direction and influences. And as a GM, you tend to hold on to those types of players a lot tighter than say a player like Quincy Acy.

    In addition to what I just type, if a GM is going to trade a "Lebron-type" player for Ross, then let's use common-sense and say, "hell mutha****** yeah".
    #Raptor4Life, #Prepping4thePlayoffs

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    T Ross is my favourite player on the Raps (by a margin). It drives me absolutely crazy the minutes that he gets .. particularily if they are going to AA. I grant that T Ross takes some bad shots (although many are because of his lack of mins and feeling that he needs to get some shots up to stay on the court .. cause Casey only seems to give him more than 15 mins if hes on fire).

    Look at his stroke. Best on the team. Look at his athleticism. Best on the team (or 2nd to Gay). This guy will have a very good NBA career .. he just needs mins to prove it out.

    Also, compare to some guys ppl were pushing (Lamb, Rivers) and WOW - what a pick. Doesnt change the fact we should have taken Drummond (to trade or to keep) .. but thats another story ..

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    If Drummond and Ross puts it together, it's going to be a very interesting conversation / comparison for many years to come.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Rookie Dunk's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    I am not bad mouthing T.Ross. All I am saying is I will throw him and everything we got if someone like K.Irving or Kevin Love comes available.
    I guarantee if Kyrie or K Love were available and it was going to take Ross to get it done, he would not be "untouchable" any more.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say he's Over-rated or Under-rated. I'd say he's Appropriately-Rated.

    He's gotten quite a bit of air time in the states; people knew his name before the Dunk Contest.
    But unfortunately, he's only gotten air-time for his dunks. While we all know he's much more than his dunks, he's yet to really prove it. I'm reserving judgement. Have always been a fan of the pick though.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star iblastoff's Avatar
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    I think one reason for all the love for Ross is that theres really no other raptors players to be excited about except the rookies because they can at least still change and surprise us. People love hope. Obviously bargnani didn't turn out the way we wanted. Derozan became the face of the raptors by default but isn't a franchise player and it doesn't seem like anyone would be bothered if he were traded. Everyone else has just been really inconsistent. T ross gets a pass on that since hes a rookie though. Hence the love!

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