View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8421
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Ok....you guys are starting to sell me on Ilyasova (assuming he can handle the 4 full time).
    I think he could. Again, on our team, that will still probably only mean 25-30 minutes a night, with Amir getting 30 give or take 5 minutes depending on his fouls, and JV will be hopefully increasing his minutes throughout next season. Lets say I could see JV starting next season at almost 25 mpg, but easily being close to 30 mpg by the end of the season. Any scraps that are left at PF could go to Acy, or Gay/Fields in a small ball situations. I wouldn't even rule out that they could use one of the exceptions to sign a passable F/C to be the 4th big.

  2. #8422
    Raptors Republic Rookie ScottBaird's Avatar
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    Ilyasova is not very good at guarding back-to-the-basket 4's and is therefor not a great option at the pf spot. That said, his offensive game MAY make up for it...

    ...but the same can sometimes be said about Bargs.
    Don't hate me because I'm an optimist.

  3. #8423
    Raptors Republic Rookie MikeToronto's Avatar
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    Quote ScottBaird wrote: View Post
    Ilyasova is not very good at guarding back-to-the-basket 4's and is therefor not a great option at the pf spot. That said, his offensive game MAY make up for it...

    ...but the same can sometimes be said about Bargs.
    I'd rather say that Ilyasova is the opposite of Bargs when it comes to defence. Bargs is actually quite good at defending bigger, back-to-the-basket power players one-on-one, where Ilyasova is better as a help defender and defending quicker PFs. Considering where the league is going, you will only need one low-post defender on your team, really, and with young Val sure to assume that role (we hope), Ersan becomes a better proposition, IMO.

  4. #8424
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    What about defensively?
    His defensive rating is better than Millsap's. Other than than that.....

    Oh and Milwaukee has a better point spread with him on the floor than off.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #8425
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Ok....you guys are starting to sell me on Ilyasova (assuming he can handle the 4 full time).

    But have we analyzed this deal from Milwaukee's perspective? Why would they want Bargnani's contract...unless shedding a year of guaranteed cash means that much to them.
    I have thought about it, and from their perspective, there are things that work about getting Bargs. First off, they don't have a single big man, post or perimeter oriented, they can give the ball to and make a play. He would be a good fit off the pick and pop with both Ellis and Jennings. AND, if they're going to trade one, say Ellis, then they will definitely need an upgrade in terms of having a legitimate scoring option next to Jennings. Again, none of their bigs, or wings, really fit that description.

    Also, though no one likes Bargs' boards, but with Sanders an emerging anchor as a help defender, Bargs would be an upgrade for them over Ilyasova, who can't guard Cs. They could then put Bargs on certain bigger guys, and allow Sanders to float as a blocker. As it is now, Sanders would project to have to do both those jobs somehow, because Henson is also not likely big enough to guard Cs. Oh, and Sanders still needs a year or two of filling out physically as well.

    And for a team like Milwaukee, shedding money is always a concern. They gave Ilyasova that contract, but for them, I think they hoped he would take another step forward, and he just doesn't have it in him. Better for them to lose that year of salary now, and get a similar player back who is an upgrade offensively (even at worse %s, Bargs can do a lot more) which is where the team projects to be weakest at the moment.

    *one thought on the Ellis aspect.....They flip Ellis and Marquis Daniels to Indy for Granger. This lets George keep playing at the SF a lot, and Ellis becomes an insane supersub for them. For Milwaukee, they desperately need a starting calibre wing of normal size. For this to work, I feel like maybe in our trade, we'd have to flip them AA...I hope...
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 05:09 PM.

  6. #8426
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote MikeToronto wrote: View Post
    I'd rather say that Ilyasova is the opposite of Bargs when it comes to defence. Bargs is actually quite good at defending bigger, back-to-the-basket power players one-on-one, where Ilyasova is better as a help defender and defending quicker PFs. Considering where the league is going, you will only need one low-post defender on your team, really, and with young Val sure to assume that role (we hope), Ersan becomes a better proposition, IMO.
    +1...most back to the basket players now get shifted to C so it's more important to have a PF who's quick on his feet and long...Ersan is both those

  7. #8427
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Ok....you guys are starting to sell me on Ilyasova (assuming he can handle the 4 full time).

    But have we analyzed this deal from Milwaukee's perspective? Why would they want Bargnani's contract...unless shedding a year of guaranteed cash means that much to them.
    F*ck.... and there is reality.

    I can't see why they'd want Bargnani's contract.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #8428
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    F*ck.... and there is reality.

    I can't see why they'd want Bargnani's contract.
    It doesn't cripple them. It's a year shorter, and I'd be willing to take a piece of crap like Ekpe Udoh back, to help them more as well. We could just renounce him if we can't trade him by the end of next season, so we don't have to carry his caphold.

  9. #8429
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Really, it's not outlandish for Milwaukee. THey'll never attract a big free agent. Bargs would be a big upgrade as an experienced scoring big. He would not take any minutes from Henson and Sanders, who are emerging as the future of their frontcourt.

  10. #8430
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default Why Trade Bargnani - Part 2

    .

    • 23.4 ppg, 6.4 Rb, 2.4 apg, 3.0 Stl, 21.4 shots, .435 efg%
    • 19.7 ppg, 5.2 Rb, 1.6 apg, .9 Stl, 18.3 shots, .454 efg%
    • 23.5 ppg, 6.6 Rb, 2.3 apg, .7 Stl, 18.8 shots, .466 efg%


    WHAT DO THEY ALL MEAN?

    The 1st set of numbers are ... HAIL TO THE KING numbers
    The 2nd set are ... HELL OUT OF HERE numbers.
    The 3rd set are ... HAIL TO THE KING OF HELL ... for 13 games at least (although the numbers reflect the full season)

    • 1st set - Rudy's 5 game Toronto experience [40.1 mpg]
    • 2nd set - Andrea's 2012-13 numbers [40.1 mpg matching equivalency]
    • 3rd set - Andrea's 2011-12 numbers [40.1 again]


    AB put up those 3rd set of numbers (in 2011-12), while being the prime focus of Defenses, and for which team expectations rested significantly on his shoulders. He also led the team in Simple Rating http://www.82games.com/1112/1112TOR.HTM . With more space to operate (via Rudy, Demar & Lowry), Bargnani should show a marked improvement.

    2009-10 [with Bosh as #1] .... AB = .522 efg%
    2008-09 [w/Bosh] ................ AB = .512 efg%

    Add the fact that you have a 7 footer who's career FT% is .824, and you have yourself a potent 6th man guy.

    .

    What's the Point to all this?
    Raptors should ride out Bargnani to the end of this season, then reassess. If he fits, then good. If he doesn't, then make changes. Play-offs (this season) are an extreme long-shot. Not making them means Raps can clear the slate (of their 1st round pick), and if not - top 3 pick via lottery -then all things turn out great, and Raps can grab a solid PG back-up for the 2013-14 season.

    .
    Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 05:56 PM.

  11. #8431
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Really, it's not outlandish for Milwaukee. THey'll never attract a big free agent. Bargs would be a big upgrade as an experienced scoring big. He would not take any minutes from Henson and Sanders, who are emerging as the future of their frontcourt.
    That is the thing though. I think Ilyasova is better than Bargnani..... shhhh! Don't tell Milwaukee though.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #8432
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I wonder about a 3-way trade with Milwaukee & Utah, for Millsap? Would the Jazz have any interest in Ilyasova, assuming Milwaukee likes Bargnani?
    Too bad we never hear major Millsap rumours...

  13. #8433
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GoldenBaller wrote: View Post
    Too bad we never hear major Millsap rumours...
    Utah keep their inquiries closer to their chest than a newborn on his mommy's teet.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #8434
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a3j5ako

    Raps: Ilyasova
    Bucks: Bargnani, Chandler
    Nuggets: Mbah a Moute
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #8435
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I don't like this deal because I don't think it makes us much better. Basically, your trading one stretch four who's big enough for the position for another stretch four who shoots better but is likely to get pushed around. We don't have room at the 3 for him and I don't see him as an upgrade at the four. Basically it seems like a lateral deal. I'm actually for keeping Bargs until the summer to see how he meshes with this squad then going from there.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  16. #8436
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote MikeToronto wrote: View Post
    Why do you guys consider Ilyasova a small forward? With his ability to rebound and shoot, I can easily see him playing 4 on a regular basis, especially in today's NBA of smaller, more mobile front court players. Yes, he doesn't have a well-developed back-to-the-basket game, but what of it?
    Ilyasova is 6'10 235 lbs, amir johnson is 6'9 210 lbs. I think there is no doubt he can guard pfs in this league, he is known as a pesky defender and a good rebounder so he would fit in caseys system really well. But he is more of a high priced role player who shoots the three well and rebounds, where as andrea can be potentially more than a role player.

    To conclude i would be down to do this, i think this helps the team.
    "Defense wins championships."

  17. #8437
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I never realized how close Ilyasova is to Millsap in stats (including advanced stats). Really surprised me actually.

    I'm actually all for Ersan now. Would have said no before you pointed this out. He is excellent production for his contract. Millsap would be at least worth $11M and that's not even a given considering he's a free agent.
    Am i missing something? Im not understanding the obsession with getting millsap. He is a free agent next year, why give up something for him when we can sign him in the offseason for free? In fact we would be taking needless risk as he could walk at the end of the year and we gave up a significant asset for nothing...
    "Defense wins championships."

  18. #8438
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Eh, I'd still rather have Millsap. #MillsapOrNothing

  19. #8439
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    The one thing that worries me about the wait and see approach with Bargs, is that he was getting booed in his first home game back....and really, why? That's a terrible sign. You can't keep running out a player who might be a target for booing on your homecourt for 30 games. That isn't good for anybody, and it can't help his value (even if I don't know if it would hurt it). From a roster evaluation standpoint I'm all for it, but I'm not sure BC will have that luxury.

  20. #8440
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Am i missing something? Im not understanding the obsession with getting millsap. He is a free agent next year, why give up something for him when we can sign him in the offseason for free? In fact we would be taking needless risk as he could walk at the end of the year and we gave up a significant asset for nothing...
    Bargnani has a hefty contract for his current role on the team, he'd be put to much better use on another team instead IMO.

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