"Defense wins championships."
Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 07:13 PM.
Also, lets look at offensive ratings this year and career:
And defensive ratings this year and career:
And all this talk of Bargnani being a stretch 4:
Bargnani 3pt % last two seasons: .306 and .296 with 1.3 and 1.1 made on 4.3 and 3.7 attempts
Ilyasova 3pt % last two seasons:.442 and .455 with 1.1 and 0.9 made on 1.9 and 2.6 attempts
And contract status:
Bargnani: $11M and $12M next 2 years.
Ilyasova: $7.9M, $7.9M, and $7.9M with $8.4 option ($400k guaranteed) over next 4 seasons
And finally age:
Bargnani 28 to start next season
Ilyasova 26 to start next season
I don't see a single area that I would prefer Bargnani over Ilyasova. From production to age to contract, give me some Ilyasova.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
Basketball has clear winners every night --except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.
Wouldn't it be a better idea just to sign Millsap as a free agent? Why trade for him now when we could keep our assets? Even Bargnani.
Money shouldn't be a problem, management has already confirmed that they're willing to pay the tax.
If they are serious about giving Millsap a new contract, the only way of doing that would indeed be to trade for him now, thus retaining his Bird rights.
They would have to amnesty Bargnani and still trade DeMar for peanuts to get Millsap as a free agent.
It's either trade for him before the deadline then resign him using his Bird Rights (thus going over the cap to do it) or bust.
*sidenote, I know it creates, or rather could create a glut of PFs, but considering Bargs is likely no part of anything that could happen with Millsap in any scenario there, it should make little difference if they turn him into Ilyasova. Utah might even like ilyasova more...
Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
So you can't make trades that will get you in the tax, but you can sign players that will get you in the tax? Why?
It would be hard to make an argument as to why the Bucks would do this trade. In terms of a straight up swap, the Bucks will only save $1M in the long run. In terms of short term flexibility, Bargnani will cost $3M more next season and $4M the season after.
I was pushing for someone who can solidify the low post scoring and interior presence for the Raptors. Ilyasova, who is a good role player (stretches the floor, rebounds and plays solid defense), is not the ideal power forward I was hoping for. However, his advanced statistics are similar to Paul Millsap's and his contract which is stated at $7.9 M per year for the next 3 seasons seems a more logical option than overpaying for a Millsap (whose contract is expiring by season's end). I am assuming Millsap will command a contract upwards of $11 M per year for 3-4 years.
Having Rudy Gay essentially as the go to option for the Raptors, we can argue that having a role player such as Ilyasova, who can impact the game even at a low usage %, is as valuable to the team as having Bargnani, a higher usage player with more skill set but produces at lower efficiency rate.
For comparison purposes, here is a brief list of power forwards who the Raptors can potentially target. (Bargnani's numbers are also featured to make comparisons easier)
Player Age PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% Usg% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48 Ersan Ilyasova 25 17.1 53.8 50.3 7.2 19.6 13.3 10.3 1.7 1.3 7.8 19.4 113 103 2.2 1.6 3.8 0.155 Paul Millsap 27 20.3 54.9 49.4 8.5 19.7 14 14.4 2.3 2.7 11.1 22.7 113 104 3.4 1.8 5.2 0.159 Carlos Boozer 31 17.4 50.6 47.4 8.7 25.8 17.3 12.3 1.2 1.1 11.4 26.1 102 100 1.1 2.5 3.6 0.121 Josh Smith 27 17.2 48.5 47.4 6.5 21 13.8 19.8 1.9 4.8 15 26.7 94 100 -0.7 2.8 2.1 0.068 Pau Gasol 32 15.9 50.7 46.2 7 19.1 13.2 17.2 0.7 2.9 13.2 20.1 106 106 1.3 1.2 2.5 0.101 Andrea Bargnani 27 12.7 49.4 45.4 2.8 13 7.7 7.7 1.2 1.6 10.2 25.8 96 109 -0.1 0.4 0.3 0.018
We can see that out of all the options available, Ilyasova is the youngest option at age 25. This is always a good idea when trying to build a core of players moving forward.
In terms of head to head match-up with Paul Millsap, his numbers are fairly comparable.
Ilyasova has a lower usage % which you want from a role player. He knows his role, does not demand a ton of plays, yet produces fairly well. He also turns the ball over at a lower percentage compared to Millsap. Add in the fact that he is 6'10" compared to Millsap's 6'8" frame, Ilyasova then provides the better answer in terms of size.
Both Millsap and Ilyasova have similar win share per 48 at around 0.15 - 0.16. In terms of that statistic, both players contribute the same amount to their team wins. One major statistic that I think solidifies my argument is that Ilyasova is only averaging 25 minutes per game. Moving forward, he can definitely fit the role of the first big off the bench and has the potential to finish games along with Amir or any front court partner.
In terms of the selection of players given above, Millsap and Ilyasova have the best production levels. Given that Boozer, Smith and Gasol are making in excess of $15 M & Smith projecting to be a max player and assuming Millsap will demand around $12 M per year this summer, Ilyasova, at $7.9M per season, is the most logical fit to the Raptors.
Last edited by torch19; Tue Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
“I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”
-- Charles Barkley
Ilyasova will make us better but not make us good enough. We should hold out for more value for the bargster, or at least amnesty the larger contract, if waiting for pasta (and he shows everyone his true colors) backfires.
While taking the stats into consideration, watch some recent highlights if ilyasova and millsap, and you tell me who's better.
Ilyasova is now a sure fire guy for me, but like you mentioned in the beginning, why would Milwaukee do such a trade?
Ok terrible example but one of experiences that comes to mind.
Booing your own damn team does not serve you. It not only affects the player your booing but his teammates, staff and everyone out there who are busting their buts trying to make this work. Some say booing is usefull because it can run the guy right outta town, but really thats BS too. What are you? a freakin lynch mob? you don't like a guy so you're gonna cause a ruckus, boo him and run him outta town? yeah real dignified! Ill never understand these people who feel that booing, showing your hate and spreading negativity is actually helping...I don't get it. The only thing I can think of is ...well it makes you feel good. It makes you feel dignified but forget how it effects everyone else. Someone needs to smack some sense in you selfish fools.
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