Eh, I'd still rather have Millsap. #MillsapOrNothing
Eh, I'd still rather have Millsap. #MillsapOrNothing
The one thing that worries me about the wait and see approach with Bargs, is that he was getting booed in his first home game back....and really, why? That's a terrible sign. You can't keep running out a player who might be a target for booing on your homecourt for 30 games. That isn't good for anybody, and it can't help his value (even if I don't know if it would hurt it). From a roster evaluation standpoint I'm all for it, but I'm not sure BC will have that luxury.
Bargnani has a hefty contract for his current role on the team, he'd be put to much better use on another team instead IMO.SuperRaptor wrote:
That was Amir's rookie weight, it's just never been updated on NBA.com
Ya but why trade for an expiring contract like millsap? If the objective is a salary dump it makes sense, but it sounds like people actually want to keep millsap, im just saying trading for him knowing he can walk is a risky way to use our most valuable trading chip.
"Defense wins championships."
Ya he is probably about 235 lbs now. My point is that we never question whether amir has the size to guard pfs, nor should we question ilyasova who is actually bigger.
"Defense wins championships."
He's better than him if he doesn't have to do too much with it. He's not quite as quick to the basket, and he's not big enough to play in the post as well as Bargs. They can't run plays for Ilyasova where he has the ball in his hands, and as it is now, they have that small backcourt issue. Bargs would make Ellis more expendable, and to get a scoring "downgrade" there as well more acceptable...maybe try to turn it into a 3-team deal with Indy. I don't think they really want to keep Granger. I think they could really use Ellis like a supersub, and it saves Indy a small amount of money. They can keep the lineup that's been working, and keep George at SF. This deal, for example, works....And Milwauke would have a slightly more conventional lineup, because they're clearly not going to be contenders as constructed. We could also throw in AA to the Bucks if they want extra SG insurance with Ellis gone.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl3zt72
Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 07:13 PM.
Who cares if Ilyasova is getting pushed around when he is getting an extra 3 rebs per game and giving up less points while being much more efficient?
Also, lets look at offensive ratings this year and career:
Player/OffRtg '12-13/Career
Bargnani/96/103
Ilyasova/113/110
And defensive ratings this year and career:
Bargnani/109/111
Ilyasova/103/103
And WS/48:
Bargnani: -0.151
Ilyasova: +0.20
And WP:
Bargnani: -2.3
Ilyasova: +5.0
And all this talk of Bargnani being a stretch 4:
Bargnani 3pt % last two seasons: .306 and .296 with 1.3 and 1.1 made on 4.3 and 3.7 attempts
Ilyasova 3pt % last two seasons:.442 and .455 with 1.1 and 0.9 made on 1.9 and 2.6 attempts
And contract status:
Bargnani: $11M and $12M next 2 years.
Ilyasova: $7.9M, $7.9M, and $7.9M with $8.4 option ($400k guaranteed) over next 4 seasons
And finally age:
Bargnani 28 to start next season
Ilyasova 26 to start next season
I don't see a single area that I would prefer Bargnani over Ilyasova. From production to age to contract, give me some Ilyasova.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
+1 lets get it done, hold on let me give BC the go ahead.
"Defense wins championships."
Yeah, Amir has grown quite a bit.
I don't know man, I see Rudy standing beside Amir and they look like pretty similar heights to me...
Wouldn't it be a better idea just to sign Millsap as a free agent? Why trade for him now when we could keep our assets? Even Bargnani.
Money shouldn't be a problem, management has already confirmed that they're willing to pay the tax.
+1 except that we would need to trade bargnani to free up cap space.
"Defense wins championships."
This is not a matter of wanting, but rather a matter of being able to. Since Raps will be way over the cap this summer, the most they would be able to offer to Millsap is an MLE-level contract. I am sure he is looking for more and will get it on the open market.
If they are serious about giving Millsap a new contract, the only way of doing that would indeed be to trade for him now, thus retaining his Bird rights.
Can't do that since Raptors are above the cap. Only teams below the cap can sign a free agent outright. Only option would be a sign and trade, and even then the Raptors have to unload salary since they can't go into the luxury in a sign and trade.
They would have to amnesty Bargnani and still trade DeMar for peanuts to get Millsap as a free agent.
It's either trade for him before the deadline then resign him using his Bird Rights (thus going over the cap to do it) or bust.
Money may not be a problem but the Collective Bargaining Agreement is.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."Tim Leiweke
There's no way we can get him before the dealine though. Demar isn't going to matchup salary-wise....they wont want to add Kleiza, or Fields....We can't give them Lowry if they want a PG. Earliest option is the offseason..
*sidenote, I know it creates, or rather could create a glut of PFs, but considering Bargs is likely no part of anything that could happen with Millsap in any scenario there, it should make little difference if they turn him into Ilyasova. Utah might even like ilyasova more...
Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 11th, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
So you can't make trades that will get you in the tax, but you can sign players that will get you in the tax? Why?
If you are over the cap, you can't sign a player UNLESS they're your own player. Example, an extension. IF Demar wasn't signed an extension, and went all the way into the off-season, we have the first chance at re-signing him, and since he is our "property", we can go re-sign the player regardless if over the cap.
It would be hard to make an argument as to why the Bucks would do this trade. In terms of a straight up swap, the Bucks will only save $1M in the long run. In terms of short term flexibility, Bargnani will cost $3M more next season and $4M the season after.
I was pushing for someone who can solidify the low post scoring and interior presence for the Raptors. Ilyasova, who is a good role player (stretches the floor, rebounds and plays solid defense), is not the ideal power forward I was hoping for. However, his advanced statistics are similar to Paul Millsap's and his contract which is stated at $7.9 M per year for the next 3 seasons seems a more logical option than overpaying for a Millsap (whose contract is expiring by season's end). I am assuming Millsap will command a contract upwards of $11 M per year for 3-4 years.
Having Rudy Gay essentially as the go to option for the Raptors, we can argue that having a role player such as Ilyasova, who can impact the game even at a low usage %, is as valuable to the team as having Bargnani, a higher usage player with more skill set but produces at lower efficiency rate.
For comparison purposes, here is a brief list of power forwards who the Raptors can potentially target. (Bargnani's numbers are also featured to make comparisons easier)
Player Age PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% Usg% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48 Ersan Ilyasova 25 17.1 53.8 50.3 7.2 19.6 13.3 10.3 1.7 1.3 7.8 19.4 113 103 2.2 1.6 3.8 0.155 Paul Millsap 27 20.3 54.9 49.4 8.5 19.7 14 14.4 2.3 2.7 11.1 22.7 113 104 3.4 1.8 5.2 0.159 Carlos Boozer 31 17.4 50.6 47.4 8.7 25.8 17.3 12.3 1.2 1.1 11.4 26.1 102 100 1.1 2.5 3.6 0.121 Josh Smith 27 17.2 48.5 47.4 6.5 21 13.8 19.8 1.9 4.8 15 26.7 94 100 -0.7 2.8 2.1 0.068 Pau Gasol 32 15.9 50.7 46.2 7 19.1 13.2 17.2 0.7 2.9 13.2 20.1 106 106 1.3 1.2 2.5 0.101 Andrea Bargnani 27 12.7 49.4 45.4 2.8 13 7.7 7.7 1.2 1.6 10.2 25.8 96 109 -0.1 0.4 0.3 0.018
We can see that out of all the options available, Ilyasova is the youngest option at age 25. This is always a good idea when trying to build a core of players moving forward.
In terms of head to head match-up with Paul Millsap, his numbers are fairly comparable.
Ilyasova has a lower usage % which you want from a role player. He knows his role, does not demand a ton of plays, yet produces fairly well. He also turns the ball over at a lower percentage compared to Millsap. Add in the fact that he is 6'10" compared to Millsap's 6'8" frame, Ilyasova then provides the better answer in terms of size.
Both Millsap and Ilyasova have similar win share per 48 at around 0.15 - 0.16. In terms of that statistic, both players contribute the same amount to their team wins. One major statistic that I think solidifies my argument is that Ilyasova is only averaging 25 minutes per game. Moving forward, he can definitely fit the role of the first big off the bench and has the potential to finish games along with Amir or any front court partner.
In terms of the selection of players given above, Millsap and Ilyasova have the best production levels. Given that Boozer, Smith and Gasol are making in excess of $15 M & Smith projecting to be a max player and assuming Millsap will demand around $12 M per year this summer, Ilyasova, at $7.9M per season, is the most logical fit to the Raptors.
Last edited by torch19; Tue Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
“I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”
-- Charles Barkley
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote