View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    8 6.50%
  • B

    47 38.21%
  • C

    29 23.58%
  • D

    18 14.63%
  • F

    21 17.07%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8461
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I wonder about a 3-way trade with Milwaukee & Utah, for Millsap? Would the Jazz have any interest in Ilyasova, assuming Milwaukee likes Bargnani?
    This is a good idea. The problem may be that if this was possible Milwaukee could try to deal directly with Utah 'cause they'd rather have Millsap than Bargnani. I don't thaink Milwaukee or any team like Bargnani. If there's validity to the rumour, I think they(Milwaukee) consider his contract a better one to have than Ilyasova's.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  2. #8462
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i didn't know how big ersan was, he is listed at 610 and 235. so big enough to play the 4.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...ersan-ilyasova
    gets his numbers in 25 minutes. so if he was coming in to be the backup 4, he would be a nice pickup. it leaves the front court still super light though, which means more grey

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...ndrea-bargnani
    in comparison andreagets less numbers across the board, except points on 5 more shots a game, in 7 more minutes

    we save money and get more bang for the buck. i would do this trade.



    again i don't get all the millsap love. if he was under contract for 3 more years or even 2 i would do it in a second. but we trade bargs away for him, only have a tiny window to resign him with exclusively(i think) for a player that is gone in 2 months because we can't pay him.
    For The Win

  3. #8463
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i didn't know how big ersan was, he is listed at 610 and 235. so big enough to play the 4.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...ersan-ilyasova
    gets his numbers in 25 minutes. so if he was coming in to be the backup 4, he would be a nice pickup. it leaves the front court still super light though, which means more grey

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...ndrea-bargnani
    in comparison andreagets less numbers across the board, except points on 5 more shots a game, in 7 more minutes

    we save money and get more bang for the buck. i would do this trade.



    again i don't get all the millsap love. if he was under contract for 3 more years or even 2 i would do it in a second. but we trade bargs away for him, only have a tiny window to resign him with exclusively(i think) for a player that is gone in 2 months because we can't pay him.
    Raps would own his Bird Rights and could pay him if they traded for him.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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  4. #8464
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    You've turned my head around Torch. Excellent, excellent post. Great explanation, great usage of stats. I've always wanted Milsap because he is the inside scoring presence this team lacks, but that is likely something JV addresses in the future, for he is a solid low post player already.

    Ilyasova is now a sure fire guy for me, but like you mentioned in the beginning, why would Milwaukee do such a trade?
    For just Bargs? Who knows? Drug habit?

    In seriousness, it comes back to taking bad contracts. What if Toronto took on Gooden? Or Udoh?

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ctxkp6v
    Bargs, AA for Iylasova, Gooden

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ae6e9gm
    Bargnani for Udoh,Ilyasova
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #8465
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  6. #8466
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Why would Washington trade Nene? Also, it seems like Minny is getting raped in this trade. I think it's really unbalanced, Raptors clearly would be the winners of the trade. Wishful thinking.

  7. #8467
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    For just Bargs? Who knows? Drug habit?

    In seriousness, it comes back to taking bad contracts. What if Toronto took on Gooden? Or Udoh?

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ctxkp6v
    Bargs, AA for Iylasova, Gooden

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ae6e9gm
    Bargnani for Udoh,Ilyasova
    I'd take a Dalembert back rather than Gooden.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  8. #8468
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I'd take a Dalembert back rather than Gooden.
    Dalembert actually has a good contract. He's an expiring contract that I'm sure any team would want to take to get some cap space back in the off season. The point I think Matt was trying to say was that if Ilyasova was better than Bargnani what would entice Milwaukee in doing that trade? If we took back a bad contract like Gooden or Udrih then that might convince them.

  9. #8469
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Dalembert actually has a good contract. He's an expiring contract that I'm sure any team would want to take to get some cap space back in the off season. The point I think Matt was trying to say was that if Ilyasova was better than Bargnani what would entice Milwaukee in doing that trade? If we took back a bad contract like Gooden or Udrih then that might convince them.
    Yes. That was the point.

    Udrih is also expiring. I think you mean Udoh.... which is a very easy mistake!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #8470
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yes. That was the point.

    Udrih is also expiring. I think you mean Udoh.... which is a very easy mistake!
    Yes, sorry I meant Udoh!

  11. #8471
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    This would be another possibility:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ce9q7nw

    Bargs, Linas for Gooden,Ilyasova.

    Bucks essentially saving the final year of Gooden's contract and the final guaranteed year of Ilyasova's.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #8472
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Bryan Colangelo has been rumoured to be fond of Ilyasova for a while – who could blame him? – and the Raptors were linked to the Turkish forward in free agency rumours in the summer, but I find it very hard to believe the Bucks would give up on Ersan to take on Bargnani’s bloated contract.

    Sure, Ilyasova is actually on the books for another four years after this one for a total of just over $32 million while Bargnani is only on the books for another two years and roughly $22 million, but when you consider that Ilyasova will make $2.6 million less than Andrea in 2013-14 and $3.6 million less in 2014-15, you quickly realize that he’s in the early stages of a bargain contract in the NBA.

    Despite his early season struggles in his first season post-extension, Ilyasova has recently bounced back to being the player many fans and stats nerds alike became enamored with over the last few years, averaging over 18 points and eight rebounds per game over his last 11 games. In addition, his per-36-minute averages remain impressive this season (15.9 points, 8.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.2 steals) while the 6-9 forward continues to shoot the lights out from three-point range. After shooting the three-ball at a below average rate of 33.5 per cent over his first three NBA seasons, Ilyasova is shooting an insane 44.8 per cent from deep over the last two seasons, including 44.2 per cent this season.

    Basically, when you look at the fact that Ilyasova is a floor-stretching forward who rebounds well and has the versatility to play the three and the four, you come to the realization that he’s everything Raptors fans wish Bargnani was, just at a much cheaper per-year cost (the advanced numbers also clearly favour the cheaper and younger Ilyasova).

    The one concern with adding Ilyasova to an offence that already features Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan is that the team would still lack a true post presence, as nearly 57 per cent of Ersan’s 9.5 field goal attempts per game this season come from 16 feet out or more, but that also has to do with Milwaukee using him at small forward rather than power forward more than they have in the past. In addition, his legitimate long range threat compared to Bargnani’s perceived threat (Bargnani’s only shot above 35 per cent from deep three times in seven NBA seasons and hasn’t done so in three years) would really open up some slashing lanes for perimeter players like Gay, DeRozan and even Kyle Lowry, and the hope would be that Amir Johnson and Jonas Valanciunas continue to evolve as effective post options.

    Add it all up and a Bargnani for Ilyasova swap really does seem like the type of move that would be too good to be true for Raptors fans and ridiculous to accept for the Bucks. I don’t doubt Kyler’s report, because I imagine more than a couple of teams would be interested in Ilyasova’s services for the next handful of years, but I do doubt that Milwaukee would seriously entertain an offer built around Toronto’s “enigma of all enigmas.”

    http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog...rget-ilyasova/
    The bold says it all. Unless Toronto is relieving them of Gooden or less likely Udoh, I don't see this trade going down (or unless a 3rd team is added). It makes NO sense for Milwaukee.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #8473
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    In the eyes of some, Bargnani has more lives than a cat. Why should we give Bargnani any more time in order to reassess him? We know EXACTLY what he is and isn't. If the right deal comes along in the next 9 days, Colangelo has to pull the trigger.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #8474
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    On a flight to the states a few years back some fat, obnoxious slob wouldn't stop harrassing one of the stewardesses. Earlier she had accidentally spilt a beverage on his shoe and even though she offered to clean up what she could and after countless appologies the dude still wouldn't let up. "lousy flight!, get me this get me that, pathetic service!" blah blah blah until finally a few of the other passengers had to 'speak' with him. Now obviously this man felt short-changed with his overall flight experience..after all, he did PAY for his ticket. He wasn't pleased with one of the employees as well so ofcourse he had to put his foot down and let it be known. Someone has to stand up and show these servers what time it was...and dammit it was gonna be him. Why? well if anything because he has the dignity to stand up for his beliefs...bad form and just that. Bad form. Someone shoulda smacked some sense into him in retrospect.

    Ok terrible example but one of experiences that comes to mind.

    Booing your own damn team does not serve you. It not only affects the player your booing but his teammates, staff and everyone out there who are busting their buts trying to make this work. Some say booing is usefull because it can run the guy right outta town, but really thats BS too. What are you? a freakin lynch mob? you don't like a guy so you're gonna cause a ruckus, boo him and run him outta town? yeah real dignified! Ill never understand these people who feel that booing, showing your hate and spreading negativity is actually helping...I don't get it. The only thing I can think of is ...well it makes you feel good. It makes you feel dignified but forget how it effects everyone else.
    **Slow clap**

    (Note that I did remove the part about slapping people. No clap for that part. I don't condone violence.)
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  15. #8475
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I think we're all being a tad sensitive. Fans have booed teams, players, coaches (in any sport) since the beginning of time. Nothing new here. Whether Bargnani, as a person, genuinely deserved it or not is completely irrelevant. The ACC will reign down boos at some point in the future too....it's an inevitability.

    IMO, I'm just glad the fan base is passionate enough to react one way or the other. I'd be much more disappointed if the crowd showed complete disinterest...like they do in Philips Arena.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #8476
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    Can't see the Bucks doing this trade. In the middle of a playoff race, they would not trade a player that a GM from a team trying to catch them in the standings.
    Walking like I'm already there.

  17. #8477
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    Can't see the Bucks doing this trade. In the middle of a playoff race, they would not trade a player that a GM from a team trying to catch them in the standings.

    if you realize that your team is going to permanently stuck in the mushy middle, you blow it up sooner rather than later

  18. #8478
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    In the eyes of some, Bargnani has more lives than a cat. Why should we give Bargnani any more time in order to reassess him? We know EXACTLY what he is and isn't. If the right deal comes along in the next 9 days, Colangelo has to pull the trigger.
    What he isn't:

    1. Franchise player
    2. No. 1 option
    3. #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)



    What he is:

    1. Difficult to defend
    2. Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
    3. A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
    4. Someone who wants to play in Canada
    5. Good post defender
    6. Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types



    Why reassess him?

    1. The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
    2. Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
    3. Could make the Secondary a potent Bench


    .

  19. #8479
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    What he isn't:

    1. Franchise player
    2. No. 1 option
    3. #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)



    What he is:

    1. Difficult to defend
    2. Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
    3. A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
    4. Someone who wants to play in Canada
    5. Good post defender
    6. Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types



    Why reassess him?

    1. The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
    2. Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
    3. Could make the Secondary a potent Bench


    .
    His inconsistencies trump everything.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #8480
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    if you realize that your team is going to permanently stuck in the mushy middle, you blow it up sooner rather than later
    At the expense of playoff revenue? Milwaukee doesn't gain anything from blowing it up now as opposed to this summer. But they lose a lot of revenue generated by a playoff race.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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