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Thread: Tor-Min-Cha

  1. #1
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    Default Tor-Min-Cha

    Everyone My trade machine link isn't working but the trade works

    Toronto sends: Bargnani, Acy, maybe a 2nd to Minnesota
    Toronto recieves: Williams, Ridnour

    Val/Gray
    Williams/AJ
    Gay/Fields
    DDR/AA/Ross
    Lowry/Lucas/Ridnour

    We get our PF of the future, our 3rd PG we needed, and get rid of Bargnani. We then build around this team and focus on resigning Gay and Lowry. I don't know which will be the backup and 3rd string because they are both capable backups, but we cannot have only Lowry and Lucas as our only PGs, especially when Lowry is often injured.



    Minnesota sends: Williams, Ridnour
    Minnesota recieves: Gordon, Acy

    Minnesota is desperate for a solid starting SG and they finally get one. They also get rid of they're PG logjam.



    Charlotte sends: Gordon
    Charlotte receives: Bargnani

    Charlotte really needs to trade Gordon, and Bargnani isn't so bad to recieves in return. He can score the ball and play a good role on the team, probably 6th man.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote alex_elstone wrote: View Post
    Everyone My trade machine link isn't working but the trade works

    Toronto sends: Bargnani, Acy, maybe a 2nd to Minnesota
    Toronto recieves: Williams, Ridnour

    Val/Gray
    Williams/AJ
    Gay/Fields
    DDR/AA/Ross
    Lowry/Lucas/Ridnour

    We get our PF of the future, our 3rd PG we needed, and get rid of Bargnani. We then build around this team and focus on resigning Gay and Lowry. I don't know which will be the backup and 3rd string because they are both capable backups, but we cannot have only Lowry and Lucas as our only PGs, especially when Lowry is often injured.



    Minnesota sends: Williams, Ridnour
    Minnesota recieves: Gordon, Acy

    Minnesota is desperate for a solid starting SG and they finally get one. They also get rid of they're PG logjam.



    Charlotte sends: Gordon
    Charlotte receives: Bargnani

    Charlotte really needs to trade Gordon, and Bargnani isn't so bad to recieves in return. He can score the ball and play a good role on the team, probably 6th man.
    Interesting twist, because Minny could really use a scorer, especially with Love out, and they clearly dont' want his lamer version in Bargnani.

    Still not sure why TO would want Williams, but to be able to flip Bargs and turn him into a legit backup PG is solid enough. I think I would do this deal in a heartbeat if you could keep Acy and send AA out instead. Obviously I have no problem with Williams, but not sure how much more he'll develop on our roster with competition at the 3 and 4.

    Still it works much better than the countless straightup deals of Bargs for Williams and Ridnour, because again, clearly Minny has no use for Bargs.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    That is an interesting twist.

    I agree with WMCJ that Minny would probably prefer Anderson to Acy (they are desperate for wing players). Williams would bump Anderson to the 6th wing in Toronto and he's expiring anyway, so I can't see that being a problem for Toronto.

    Another addition could see Minny dumping Roy's contract on Charlotte, to help salaries match a little better. If Roy retires, then it's a moot-point from Charlotte's perspective next season.


    TORONTO IN: Williams & Ridnour
    TORONTO OUT: Bargnani & Anderson

    CHARLOTTE IN: Bargnani & Roy
    CHARLOTTE OUT: Gordon & 2nd round pick

    MINNESOTA IN: Gordon & Anderson & 2nd round pick
    MINNESOTA OUT: Williams & Ridnour & Roy


    Toronto's revised lineup

    C: Valanciunas, Gray, Haddadi (until officially waived)
    PF: Johnson, Williams, Acy
    SF: Gay, Fields, Kleiza
    SG: DeRozan, Ross, Pietrus
    PG: Lowry, Ridnour, Lucas

    If Williams proves capable of becoming a full-time backup SF (I think he's more suited for SF than PF), then it could make DeRozan expendable in the offseason, to trade for a starting PF (ie: Millsap S&T).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Feb 15th, 2013 at 01:16 PM.

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    Default DD Haters

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If Williams proves capable of becoming a full-time backup SF (I think he's more suited for SF than PF), then it could make DeRozan expendable in the offseason, to trade for a starting PF (ie: Millsap S&T).
    Here we go again....

    DD is a starting shooting guard.....We have Rudy playing SF. W T F does Williams (a maybe backup SF/PF) have to do with DD??

    DD is not going anywhere......sorry to burst your Calgary bubble....BUT Here in TORONTO we really like Demar. It would take some serious talent upgrade for us to trade DD!!

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    Dont touch DD.
    We would groom Williams to become a Milsap like PF.

    If we get ridnour, Id be very very very happy.

    In fact, Ridnour and Williams would pretty much sum up our moves for the next year and a bit.
    Add a draft pick (backup 7footer) and just let the team develop. We would be set at every position!
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post

    If Williams proves capable of becoming a full-time backup SF (I think he's more suited for SF than PF), then it could make DeRozan expendable in the offseason, to trade for a starting PF (ie: Millsap S&T).
    I still would not like to trade DeRozan away. I see a Demar for Millsap swap as a lateral talent move, and using a solid player at a position that's increasingly shallow/weak to get a one at a position that is probably the deepest in the league.

    If all else fails, and everything falls through on teh PF front in trades, and we can use our MLE, I'd go after Carl Landry if he opts out. And I'm sure there might be 2 or 3 other options that would make a solid PF next to Amir and JV.
    *FWIW, I think a guy like Landry might opt out...he's only being paid $4 million, and I'd say there's a chance he loses minutes as Bogut gets healthy and the frontcourt more crowded.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Feb 16th, 2013 at 01:06 PM.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Here we go again....

    DD is a starting shooting guard.....We have Rudy playing SF. W T F does Williams (a maybe backup SF/PF) have to do with DD??

    DD is not going anywhere......sorry to burst your Calgary bubble....BUT Here in TORONTO we really like Demar. It would take some serious talent upgrade for us to trade DD!!
    DeRozan is an average SG. He is a poor 3pt shooter, terrible defender and average rebounder at best.

    My point about Williams was that the wing rotation would be just fine if it looked like this:

    SF: Gay, Williams
    SG: Fields, Ross

    I don't hate DeRozan and would be happy to have him stay in Toronto until he retires. However, the Raps are strong/deep on the wings, I think DeRozan is overpaid (not worth $9.5M per season) and the Raps are close to being a luxury tax team. From my perspective, all this adds up to DeRozan being a very valuable trade asset, to potentially address another area of weakness, such as starting PF (Amir is better suited to be a backup PF / 3rd big). I wouldn't just trade DeRozan for anybody, but I think he could be useful for landing a high-quality player, such as Millsap.

    DeRozan isn't an all-star and is far from being "untouchable". It irks me when people call other people "haters", simple because they considered another option.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Demar is better than average......

  9. #9
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    Demar is much better than 'average'.

    I think he is better than a few max-contract players I could name off
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Demar is better than average......
    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Demar is much better than 'average'.

    I think he is better than a few max-contract players I could name off
    Yes you're right, he's above average, but he's also not an untouchable all-star caliber player.

    The only point I was trying to make is that as a team near the luxury tax, with quality/depth on the wings, DeRozan would seem to be the logical choice to be dangled as a trade asset to be used in a trade/S&T to acquire an equally good talent to upgrade a position of weakness (we all know Bargnani won't cut it as a tradeable asset). A trade like the one in this thread, where another good, young wing with potential (Williams) was added to the team's wing depth, would only further make DeRozan a potential trade asset - not to dump him, but to acquire an equally good young talent at another position (ie: starting PF).

    I just take issue with people referring to that thought process as "hate" towards DeRozan. I also didn't feel that coming from you two, for the record.

  11. #11
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    I dont know why you would sacrifice what could possibly be the greatest wing triplet this league will have for years to come.

    Rudy Gay, Demar Derozan, Terrence Ross. THIS is the strength you want to have on your wings. THIS is the athleticism. Demar is the hardest working of the 3, Rudy is the clutch of the 3, and Ross is the sweet stroke of the 3.

    All of them can destroy your rims.

    It seems so backwards to gut a team with so much excitement across the board, and this is without mentioning how YOUNG and pre-primed all of these players are.

    This is a strength you BUILD around, not sacrifice.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  12. #12
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    And yes, I have seen too quick a notion to trade Demar because Ross can start at SG.
    Its like: Oh look! We have TOO MUCH talent.

    Though Ross becoming a star sixth man in this league has clearly not hit these people.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  13. #13
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yes you're right, he's above average, but he's also not an untouchable all-star caliber player.

    The only point I was trying to make is that as a team near the luxury tax, with quality/depth on the wings, DeRozan would seem to be the logical choice to be dangled as a trade asset to be used in a trade/S&T to acquire an equally good talent to upgrade a position of weakness (we all know Bargnani won't cut it as a tradeable asset). A trade like the one in this thread, where another good, young wing with potential (Williams) was added to the team's wing depth, would only further make DeRozan a potential trade asset - not to dump him, but to acquire an equally good young talent at another position (ie: starting PF).

    I just take issue with people referring to that thought process as "hate" towards DeRozan. I also didn't feel that coming from you two, for the record.
    Well, I also don't think Millsap is an untouchable all-star caliber player (maybe he'll make one or two, but maybe Demar could too).

    And on the wing depth, I wouldn't overestimate it yet. Gay, Demar and AA are the guys who have logged a lot of minutes this season. Ross is really raw, and Fields is a glue guy with a broken jumper. Trading Demar now is banking on some pretty fast improvement from Ross. I think I would be patient for next season on the wing situation. Wait for Ross' 3rd year (Gay's last contract year) where he might be ready to start, and when Demar could be a valuable trade chip at any point before, during or after the season.

    I'm just saying that I wouldn't be in a rush to do this kind of trade. Frankly, I think Demar will always have enough value to get you that kind of move. And his value could even increase if he keeps improving.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Feb 16th, 2013 at 02:13 PM.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yes you're right, he's above average, but he's also not an untouchable all-star caliber player.

    The only point I was trying to make is that as a team near the luxury tax, with quality/depth on the wings, DeRozan would seem to be the logical choice to be dangled as a trade asset to be used in a trade/S&T to acquire an equally good talent to upgrade a position of weakness (we all know Bargnani won't cut it as a tradeable asset). A trade like the one in this thread, where another good, young wing with potential (Williams) was added to the team's wing depth, would only further make DeRozan a potential trade asset - not to dump him, but to acquire an equally good young talent at another position (ie: starting PF).

    I just take issue with people referring to that thought process as "hate" towards DeRozan. I also didn't feel that coming from you two, for the record.
    First you call DD an average SG (hating)....then we call you out on it and you admit in your next post that he is above average....gee thanks for keeping it real!

    Check your past posts!...... Your ALWAYS coming up with scenarios to trade DD......for lateral or less TALENT to boot! Now your saying that D Williams is of equally good talent as DD.....lMAO. I bet Minny would do a DD for Williams trade in a heartbeat!

    If BC could trade the BUM named Hedo ....he should be able to trade Bargnani and LK... Lets keep our better players and trade the players that DONT fit.

    How would Rudy feel if we traded DD (who Gay said IS the BEST SG he's EVER played with) for D Williams? We need proven talent....not potential ones. DD right now is PROVEN talent. So is Rudy Gay. TROSS has potential ...he's yet to be proven. I would rather trade TRoss if it could net us a good piece at PF.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    First you call DD an average SG (hating)....then we call you out on it and you admit in your next post that he is above average....gee thanks for keeping it real!

    Check your past posts!...... Your ALWAYS coming up with scenarios to trade DD......for lateral or less TALENT to boot! Now your saying that D Williams is of equally good talent as DD.....lMAO. I bet Minny would do a DD for Williams trade in a heartbeat!

    If BC could trade the BUM named Hedo ....he should be able to trade Bargnani and LK... Lets keep our better players and trade the players that DONT fit.

    How would Rudy feel if we traded DD (who Gay said IS the BEST SG he's EVER played with) for D Williams? We need proven talent....not potential ones. DD right now is PROVEN talent. So is Rudy Gay. TROSS has potential ...he's yet to be proven. I would rather trade TRoss if it could net us a good piece at PF.
    Read my posts. I never compared Williams to DeRozan, I compared the player DeRozan would be traded for an equal talent - ie: Millsap. Williams was acquired in a different trade, providing additional wing depth to make DeRozan expendable.

    The reason I'm calling for a DeRozan trade instead of Ross, is salary. The Raps are nearly a luxury tax team, so they can't sign any free agents and they couldn't trade Ross for as big a star as DeRozan, since salaries wouldn't work out.

    If Bargnani were traded for Ridnour and Williams, the Raps would have 6 good wings and only 1 PF. So, logically it makes sense to then trade a wing to improve the PF spot. A DeRozan for Millsap trade would be a lateral move from both a talent and financial perspective. However, since they are trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness, I would argue that it is actually a net upgrade. Yes, the wing position would have been weakened, but they'd still have Gay, Ross, Fields, Williams and Anderson on the wings, so I wouldn't be overly concerned. On the other hand, the PF spot would have been improved from Amir & Acy to Millsap and Amir - a huge improvement.

    I like DeRozan, but I am able to CONSIDER various potential options rationally, without letting hometown bias and emotion cloud my judgement. I'm not sure how thinking about various scenarios (while still making it clear that I would be equally happy keeping DeRozan) makes me a hater.

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    I created an account today just to post the NEED to offer anything to get Millsap. Hw good would Indiana be this year without David West? .500 or slightly below. Millsap is the exact same player with even better numbers, coming over form a tougher conference. Through Ross to Utah with Bargs, and get Millsap and expedition Foye in return.
    T. Ross has some potential, but is a big question mark for consistent efficiency. Ross has a very small chance of becoming a more efficient scorer than Derozan, who has yet to come into his prime on a team with great spacing, but still gets to the line every game.
    Is Ross with more than Millsap? That's like saying Gerald Green was a better FA signing for Indiana than David West.

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