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Thread: Colangelo: Trades/Bargnani and Future

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Colangelo: Trades/Bargnani and Future

    Sam Amick, USA Today:

    On Bargnani, how he's fitting in better now with Gay and the likelihood that he could be traded...

    "We began this year with Bargnani as our No. 1 scoring option. He's now No. 3 because Rudy has arrived and DeMar (DeRozan) has emerged. Now Bargnani is No. 3. There's talk about possibly moving him – and again we've talked about it, not for talent reasons but because maybe sometimes a change of scenery is the best thing for somebody. But sometimes a change of scenery can happen just by redecorating the room.

    "That has happened with our situation here, in that Bargnani goes out with an injury, we make a fairly significant trade, which changes – really – the complexion of the team in two ways. It takes a pass-first, controlled point guard in Jose (Calderon, who was traded from Toronto to Memphis to Detroit in the deal) out of the lineup, it thrusts Kyle (Lowry) back in – where we had intended to have him. And you bring in Rudy, who clearly is a No. 1 scoring option, and DeMar has emerged.

    "All of a sudden the outlook and the presence of a guy like Andrea is entirely different now. He's not relied on as a No. 1 guy. He has never been paid like a No. 1 option, but people wanted to criticize that he couldn't handle that role. I've always felt like he's been slotted in salary-wise as a No. 2 or No. 3. Maybe he's kind of fitting in nicely now.

    "If a trade doesn't occur before the deadline, or even this summer, maybe it's because we figured out that with the evolution of the team he is the right guy to be a part of this team. He's been through the hard part. This may be the easiest part ahead of him.

    "I would say (the situation) is fluid. There may have been an outright cry (to trade him) externally, whether from the media or the bloggers, to make a deal. But internally, we've always said that we recognized that a change of scenery may be helpful for him and maybe beneficial for us. But we always recognized the talent, and I believe that – in some of the trade discussions I've had – the market recognizes the talent. And we didn't want to do something just to do it.

    "If a deal presents itself that makes sense, we'll go ahead and move. I would say that, had he not injured himself early, it would've been much more likely that something would've happened. By virtue of him getting injured and returning with a handful games left prior to the trade deadline…there just may not have been enough runway prior to the deadline to get something.

    "That's not to say all those conversations are completely done right now, and again I've had open dialogue with his agent and Andrea acknowledging that maybe it is the best thing to happen. I've said, 'There's no lock that this is going to happen, so we need to make the most of it in either case.' If he stays, he's got obviously a new outlook with the acquisition of Rudy – the changing landscape, if you will. Maybe we find out that it's the best thing for him and for us."
    On Colangelo's future…

    "There's been no discussion (about his future since the trade). I certainly haven't brought it up. I think that we're, right now, transitioning with an ownership change of our own. The deal was announced probably a year and a half ago and it just closed this past summer, in terms of the change from the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan to a new group that includes both Bell and Rogers owning 37 ˝ percent each, and Larry Tanenbaum increasing his stake to 25 percent. The constant there is Larry Tanenbaum, and he maintains his role as chairman of the board.

    "This is somewhat of a getting-to-know-you scenario for everyone involved, myself included. And I would like to think that at the end of the day, they look at my track record and my history and say that I'm the right guy. Time will tell. I have been consistent about one thing: I will always do what's right for the organization. It has nothing to do with me. If there's an opportunity to improve this team, I will do so. There's obviously always a balance in my position between short-term results and long-term results, or short-term outlook and long-term outlook.

    "I've proven that, despite all the things that have been happening with the rebuilding of this team simultaneous to the uncertainty with my contract, I always made the right long-term strategic decision with respect to the transactions that were being made or draft picks that were being made. Case in point was drafting (Jonas) Valanciunas (fifth overall in 2011) knowing that he was not going to be here for a year, and that when he did arrive that he'd be 20 and would still be considered a project. But you have to carry out your job with integrity and do the right thing for the organization. That's what I've been hired to do and that's what I'm doing. Whether or not that pays off for me long-term, with an extension or just even my option year being picked up (for the 2013-14 season), time will tell. But you can't lose sight of what the job is."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ngelo/1930845/
    "You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Hearing what deals BC has had on the table, I feel like he has the opportunity to make this team so much better. But I think he refuses to swallow his pride and keeps telling himself Bargnani will work out. I really hope he makes the right choice before the deadline. It seems like even Bargnani wants to be traded but BC has him in chains.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    "I would say (the situation) is fluid. There may have been an outright cry (to trade him) externally, whether from the media or the bloggers, to make a deal.
    Does this mean BC reads RR??? Lets keep posting our trade scenarios then!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I said this in another thread but, BC is that girl that just keeps thinking he can change her asshole of a boyfriend(Andrea Bargnani).

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Just more typical BC spins. Using a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Hearing what deals BC has had on the table, I feel like he has the opportunity to make this team so much better. But I think he refuses to swallow his pride and keeps telling himself Bargnani will work out. I really hope he makes the right choice before the deadline. It seems like even Bargnani wants to be traded but BC has him in chains.
    It's not like he got booed on his first game back or anything. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to be traded, but in my opinion, he's been with this organization his whole career and I don't see him wanting to be traded. If he's determined enough to try and prove to us that he can fit in with this team, I think he's worth keeping.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    IMO, I think he is telling the truth (about Bargnani). He still believes Bargnani is a talent but he does not see him fitting with the Raptors in the team's long term plans. As such, a former #1 overall pick who has had one terrible season in his career could not be possibly traded for the likes of Spencer Hawes and Ben Gordon. Carlos Boozer is another question mark but I think it all comes down to salary and whether ownership is willing to take on the tax that comes with such acquisition.

    I still think Bargnani will be traded away in the summer, at the latest. I think that his value is at an all time low and other teams know it.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Isnt this similar to what he said about Calderon before he got traded?

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I said this in another thread but, BC is that girl that just keeps thinking he can change her asshole of a boyfriend(Andrea Bargnani).
    That is very funny and a great analogy.

    I have been anti bargs since about 3 years ago when the #TRADEBARGSNOW bandwagon was not nearly so crowded.

    but I am in favor of them not trading him.... not yet. AS LONG AS HE REMAINS A RESERVE who gets yanked if he is slacking.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Just more typical BC spins. Using a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
    Old Swedish saying: The empty barrel sounds the loudest....

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    We. Are. Stuck. With. HIM!!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    IMO, I think he is telling the truth (about Bargnani). He still believes Bargnani is a talent but he does not see him fitting with the Raptors in the team's long term plans. As such, a former #1 overall pick who has had one terrible season in his career could not be possibly traded for the likes of Spencer Hawes and Ben Gordon. Carlos Boozer is another question mark but I think it all comes down to salary and whether ownership is willing to take on the tax that comes with such acquisition.

    I still think Bargnani will be traded away in the summer, at the latest. I think that his value is at an all time low and other teams know it.
    I agree. Remember, other GMs are bound to hear/read those types of statements too, so of course he's going to maintain his outward belief in Bargnani's talent/potential. A GM would be an absolute idiot to not talk like that and he wouldn't last in his role very long if he didn't (and just threw players under the bus, killing whatever negotiating leverage he might have had otherwise). Speaking publically and believing privately are two very different things.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    IMO, I think he is telling the truth (about Bargnani). He still believes Bargnani is a talent but he does not see him fitting with the Raptors in the team's long term plans. As such, a former #1 overall pick who has had one terrible season in his career could not be possibly traded for the likes of Spencer Hawes and Ben Gordon. Carlos Boozer is another question mark but I think it all comes down to salary and whether ownership is willing to take on the tax that comes with such acquisition.

    I still think Bargnani will be traded away in the summer, at the latest. I think that his value is at an all time low and other teams know it.
    That is the common gripe with the Boozer - the financial implications - I don't think anyone is denying Boozer is a better player.

    Looking at the numbers I was surprised at a couple of things (all salary info coming from http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary):

    This season -

    Raps payroll $66,928,406
    Proposed trade Boozer/Nate for Bargnani/JL3 results in +4.355M
    New Raps payroll is $71,283,406

    The Raptors will be over the tax by just under $1M (McGuire certainly looks stupid now: $992K).

    Finding a team to take Haddadi for a future 2nd rd pick puts the Raptors under the tax with 14 on the roster.

    Next season -

    Raps payroll with Boozer (minus Haddadi & JL3) is $75,934259.

    Amnesty Kleiza: $71,334,259

    Larry Coon has been speculating that the salary cap and luxury tax thresholds are likely to go up $5M (salary cap around $63M and luxury tax $75.3M). If that speculation turns out to be true, then the Raps are $4M below the luxury tax for next season with 10 players on the roster.


    Anyways, things certainly get a little more tangly but the key thing is to avoid paying the tax this season as after 3 consecutive years of tax paying, the repeater tax kicks in. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

    *EDIT* I am all for getting Chicago's pick in any Boozer deal - actually I'd likely consider not pulling the trigger and waiting until the summer actually. If the Raps were to pick 16-20 (lets assume 16 to make salary >) then the Raps would be able to draft player ($1.4M) plus fill out the roster with 2-3 minimum guys ($854k). The bulk of the roster for next season would already be set.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Feb 19th, 2013 at 05:34 PM.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Anyways, things certainly get a little more tangly but the key thing is to avoid paying the tax this season as after 3 consecutive years of tax paying, the repeater tax kicks in. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21
    I get the impression this is the reason. With Gay's increasing salary, they probably figure they can stand to pay the tax for a couple of years and then remodel the roster/payroll, but don't want to pay the repeater tax, especially since the playoffs are still a long shot this season.

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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Does this mean BC reads RR??? Lets keep posting our trade scenarios then!!!!!
    He likely does....he is likely source of many trade rumours floated.

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    [QUOTE=white men can't jump;190964]I get the impression this is the reason. With Gay's increasing salary, they probably figure they can stand to pay the tax for a couple of years and then remodel the roster/payroll, but don't want to pay the repeater tax, especially since the playoffs are still a long shot this season.[/QUOTE
    But if we could make playoffs next two years and maybe this year it may be more acceptable to ownership.

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    he is making the right call. Bargnani offensive skillset is a good fit for our team, because it is primarily composed of slashers that attack the rim (gay,derozan,lowry) and we need space for them to do so to be succesful, if we are not getting a piece like that back it is detrimental to trade him, he is less of a defensive burden b/c we are playing him less minutes/more energy to defend b/c he is 3rd/4th option now, he is also good at setting screens. I don't like bargnani, but I put that aside when thinking about what would be best for the team.
    Last edited by akashsingh; Tue Feb 19th, 2013 at 05:45 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The team is one "Amir Ankle Tweak" away from Andrea starting and chucking away!!!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The team is one "Amir Ankle Tweak" away from Andrea starting and chucking away!!!
    But that's just it... even if he doesn stay, I get the impression that the 'old Bargnani treatment double-standard' no longer applies. I believe that DC now has the final say with how/when to use Bargnani. The worst case scenario (offensively) is that he becomes a decoy as a 3rd/4th option; the best case is that his shooting touch returns and he is able to contribute much more efficiently. Either way, as long as DC can keep him on a short leash, I don't mind him sticking around as the backup PF.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The team is one "Amir Ankle Tweak" away from Andrea starting and chucking away!!!
    Luckily Amir plays through everything but I agree. I'm calling it now. Amir will get injured and AB step into the starting line up and hell play the best ball of the season.

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