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Thread: [+ Gay ok] [- Calderon awesome] don't get it twisted

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default [+ Gay ok] [- Calderon awesome] don't get it twisted

    Yes I like Gay and he is the best player on the team. Furthermore I think guys rally round his marque cache and derive swagger. Great trade.

    But

    Gay+Derozen +Allan anderson + Ross

    is not hugely better than the old rotation of

    Anderson Derozen Ross lowry fields

    In fact the old line up was a better perimeter threat. The reason why Raptors can win games now is they don't close games with Calderon at the point of attack. I really like and admire the spirit and contribution of Calderon but lets fact it his foot speed was detrimental.

    Furthermore not having to use an inept Bargs has done them well. When he is rolling they give him some run, when he is flat they pull him and it has not been that way EVER since he was drafted.

    If they had the current line up -Calderon and with Bargs on a short lease off the bench since the beginning of the year they would have a similar if not better record than the knicks IMO.

    peace
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    This is wack. Adding a wing who instantly becomes your best player doesn't even make your wing rotation better?

    How do you figure that Derozan/Anderson/Ross/Feilds is not much worse than Gay/Derozan/Anderson/Ross/Feilds?? That's one whole borderline all-star worth of difference.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Tortacular's Avatar
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    Nonsensical.

    The wing rotation will be even better once Anderson gets glued to the bench and Ross starts playing 20-25 minutes every night.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Tortacular wrote: View Post
    Nonsensical.

    The wing rotation will be even better once Anderson gets glued to the bench and Ross starts playing 20-25 minutes every night.
    I think you meant to say "Once Ross starts playing well enough to play 25 minutes a night."

    Unless his play improved significantly, 25 minutes of Ross a night would sink the Raps most games. Maybe just giving him minutes magically improves his game, but nobody knows if that would happen. Casey has been yanking him because he has played like a star struck rook.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Ross will be playing the regular 5 minutes untill he breaks through that wall in his way, Casey is back to rewarding production now that BC gave him the ok Bargs is trash bench him and run the team.... I would love to see Ross play 20-25 minutes a game but not until hes playing like hes supposed to which I dont hink we will see till next season, gets to go through another Summer league with Acy and another training camp he needs to find himself.

    As for the thread what have you been smoking? the team is much better with Gay and without Calderon..... Please forget the past Calderon wasn't THAT great... Kyle Lowry has lready shown us he is a much better PG at the end of the game than the folding under pressure Calderon as well, last posessions Calderon chokes.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Yes I like Gay and he is the best player on the team. Furthermore I think guys rally round his marque cache and derive swagger. Great trade.

    But

    Gay+Derozen +Allan anderson + Ross

    is not hugely better than the old rotation of

    Anderson Derozen Ross lowry fields

    In fact the old line up was a better perimeter threat. The reason why Raptors can win games now is they don't close games with Calderon at the point of attack. I really like and admire the spirit and contribution of Calderon but lets fact it his foot speed was detrimental.

    Furthermore not having to use an inept Bargs has done them well. When he is rolling they give him some run, when he is flat they pull him and it has not been that way EVER since he was drafted.

    If they had the current line up -Calderon and with Bargs on a short lease off the bench since the beginning of the year they would have a similar if not better record than the knicks IMO.

    peace
    i recall sam mitchell doing this with bargs quite a bit... was one of the reasons he was canned IMO..

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Yes I like Gay and he is the best player on the team. Furthermore I think guys rally round his marque cache and derive swagger. Great trade.

    But

    Gay+Derozen +Allan anderson + Ross

    is not hugely better than the old rotation of

    Anderson Derozen Ross lowry fields


    In fact the old line up was a better perimeter threat. The reason why Raptors can win games now is they don't close games with Calderon at the point of attack. I really like and admire the spirit and contribution of Calderon but lets fact it his foot speed was detrimental.

    Furthermore not having to use an inept Bargs has done them well. When he is rolling they give him some run, when he is flat they pull him and it has not been that way EVER since he was drafted.

    If they had the current line up -Calderon and with Bargs on a short lease off the bench since the beginning of the year they would have a similar if not better record than the knicks IMO.

    peace
    Your threads are either hilarious, or just plain stupid...

    This is like right in between bad and Tenforthewin threads.

    Anyways, to the point, from a talent stand-point, Gay + Derozan + Anderson + Ross + Fields is REMARKABLY better. Have you not been watching? Everything has been made easier for the guys that rally around Gay, and the confidence is high and untouchable.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie toebeesaw's Avatar
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    I really think your evaluation of talent is off. I can't understand how adding Gay doesn't make our wings better. Although his shooting could be better his ability to create his own shot, stretch the floor, play above the rim, rebound, & defend make him a complete wing. Last time the raps had someone like that was Tracy McGrady. Gay is a significant upgrade. I think every Gm in the league would take the current roster as opposed to the roster that started the season.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Yes I like Gay and he is the best player on the team. Furthermore I think guys rally round his marque cache and derive swagger. Great trade.

    But

    Gay+Derozen +Allan anderson + Ross

    is not hugely better than the old rotation of

    Anderson Derozen Ross lowry fields

    In fact the old line up was a better perimeter threat.The reason why Raptors can win games now is they don't close games with Calderon at the point of attack. I really like and admire the spirit and contribution of Calderon but lets fact it his foot speed was detrimental.

    Furthermore not having to use an inept Bargs has done them well. When he is rolling they give him some run, when he is flat they pull him and it has not been that way EVER since he was drafted.

    If they had the current line up -Calderon and with Bargs on a short lease off the bench since the beginning of the year they would have a similar if not better record than the knicks IMO.

    peace
    As much as you will get trashed for this post...because the beginning makes no sense

    This part is correct. Having Jose guarding the point of attack at the end of games was crucial...especially if bargs was on the court at the same time. We would allow several straight line drives to the basket and bargs was off getting a gatorade instead of helping or rebounding.

    I still say, however, that this could have been counter-balanced had Jose been more selfish during his time here. if you ask me he is unquestionably one of the best shooters in the league, and if he would just be more of a selfish guy and player, he would have taken more shots at the end of the games and we would have won more of them. Statistically you would think that some of the shots DD took, or bargs took in those situations, he would have made had he be looking for his shot

    the fact is he left a lot of money and wins on the table by choosing to be so selfless.

    whatever i'm just happy that era is over
    Last edited by BallaBalla; Sun Feb 24th, 2013 at 03:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Rookie ST1R's Avatar
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    Quote toebeesaw wrote: View Post
    I really think your evaluation of talent is off. I can't understand how adding Gay doesn't make our wings better. Although his shooting could be better his ability to create his own shot, stretch the floor, play above the rim, rebound, & defend make him a complete wing. Last time the raps had someone like that was Tracy McGrady. Gay is a significant upgrade. I think every Gm in the league would take the current roster as opposed to the roster that started the season.
    +1

    You must be smoking the real sticky icky icky Charlz! Nothing wrong with that but its left you posting a bunch of nonsense..

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    Quote ST1R wrote: View Post
    +1

    You must be smoking the real sticky icky icky Charlz! Nothing wrong with that but its left you posting a bunch of nonsense..
    Is he starting to smoke the same stuff Tenforthewin is on? What's wrong with RR? D:

  12. #12
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    Funny you are talking about the old rotation being better than the one we currently have, however, when some of the reporters were naming the winners and losers of the trades last week, most agreed that Toronto was the winners of the trade for getting Gay when they did. That was the biggest trade of the 2013 so far. Credit B.C. for pulling that off. And in case no one noticed, both Raps and Grizzs are 7 - 3 since the trade!

    We are winning. Stop comparing what is working with something that wasn't working!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    He is trolling guys. When people make threads and don't reply after like 10 people reply to it saying its stupid, you know its a classic case of trolling.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    or he's just on the same stuff as tenforthewin probably bathsalts or crystal meth

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    I love Jose because he was able to create for others out of the screen and roll, primarily the big guys. He also set up Demar with crisp passes out of sets and Jose's timing on running plays is exceptional. This is why he is a coach's guy because he runs what he is told with timing and accuracy.

    Having said that, Jose NEEDED a screen and roll to make something happen. He has since lost foot speed to blow by his man without a screen. Consequently on defense, when the game slows down, teams attempt to take advantage of his underwhelming man defense. Jose could not contain faster guards at the point of attack.

    By trading for Rudy Gay, the Raptors have managed to insert Kyle Lowry back at the point. Although he does not have the same creativity, timing and precision that Jose has on offense, he does provide enough shooting, scoring, some degree of facilitating but most importantly, DEFENSE, which is very much needed at the end of games.

    Offensively, you have seen the ball stagnate and we have not had the same ball movement since Jose left. But that's especially because we have someone like Rudy who can create his own shot anywhere on the floor. Part of it is the lack of timing and chemistry between the players and another part is Kyle not having the same facilitating ability of a Jose.

    I guess what I'm saying is you give and you take, which is why it's called a trade. We gave up our guy who creates for others essentially by force feeding them and we took a guy who can create for himself, gather up the defense, reduce the pressure on Demar but most importantly, we have bolstered our defense in late game situations.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    weird weird thread.....

    I wonder how long Jose needs to be gone for people to stop pining for him? I was hoping that it would be over with fairly quickly if the team was winning with Gay (which it is) but I suppose the random Jose love affair comment is bound to come up over the next 2 years.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    He is trolling guys. When people make threads and don't reply after like 10 people reply to it saying its stupid, you know its a classic case of trolling.
    No I was out of the country I am preparing my response.
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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote toebeesaw wrote: View Post
    I really think your evaluation of talent is off. I can't understand how adding Gay doesn't make our wings better. Although his shooting could be better his ability to create his own shot, stretch the floor, play above the rim, rebound, & defend make him a complete wing. Last time the raps had someone like that was Tracy McGrady. Gay is a significant upgrade. I think every Gm in the league would take the current roster as opposed to the roster that started the season.
    I said Gay is the best player on the team and he makes the team better for sure. But if you look at his poorer games like Memphis and the knicks it obvious that his range is a weakness. The same can not be said of Anderson. But lets not get it twisted.

    The real point of this thread is Calderon.

    His absence is a huge addition by subtraction. In the Atlantic he is totally incapable against the other guards late in games.
    Holiday
    Williams
    Rondo
    Even Felton

    He would get beat off the bounce Amir would step in to help and it would leave someone open... it has been that way for years. Did you notice every time they played two guards who cover the PG? It was usually to camouflage Calderon's inability against Tony parkeror John wall... add Lillard to that list.

    The Raptors were never even going to be a decent defensive team no matter how many they scored as long as Calderon was the guy. PS defense wins championships.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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