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Thread: The Bench....

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Default The Bench....

    We came into this season being described as "deep" true but to what degree some puddles can be deep. In context though it wasnt bad at all.

    Calderon
    Ross
    Anderson
    Davis
    Johnson

    Calderon was the PG off the bench which should have worked out, but continuously wet bed anytime he came off the pine. Fast forward the bench is now:

    Lucas
    Ross
    Anderson
    Fields
    Bargnani

    Way too many chuckers looking to get theirs in this line up, the problem is the line up has little to no ball movement and provide nothing but wasted possessions, Going forward I hope Telfair and Acy get some burn, they will provide something to address the weakness of the benches productivity. with the way things are now success is limited and might as well just play out the season and ship these selfish players out of town.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Our bench is too deep in the sense that Casey uses too many players. He should only pick his 3 best bench players, and let everyone else ride the pine.

    If Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Amir and Jonas are his starters, our bench only needs a PG (Lucas or Telfair...but not both), a backup wing (one of Fields, Anderson or Ross), and a backup big (one of Bargnani or Gray).

    The 12-man rotations have got to stop. Play the starters heavy minutes. They're our best players. The purpose of the bench is to give the starters a rest...that's it.

    We're coming down the home stretch of the season. We need to get into a playoff rotation. No more crazy, whacky lineups/ substitutions. Identify your top 8 guys and stick to it, dammit!

    End of rant.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.
    There are exceptions due to injury or foul trouble, but most teams shorten their rotation towards the end of the season (if they haven't done so already).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    i feel like a lot of the games we've recently won (especially pre-rudy) were basically all done by the bench. we had insane bench scores. but whens the last time ross had more than 2-3 points whenever he was on the floor? seems like ages ago now.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.
    I can live with this.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.
    I still think we need to give Ross some minutes. Developing/acquiring talent is still more important for this team than winning. I'm not saying you leave him out there if he isn't performing at the expense of a game, but I think he needs some on-court experience to help this team in the long run, especially since we have less roster flexibility moving forward.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I still think we need to give Ross some minutes. Developing/acquiring talent is still more important for this team than winning. I'm not saying you leave him out there if he isn't performing at the expense of a game, but I think he needs some on-court experience to help this team in the long run, especially since we have less roster flexibility moving forward.
    For this to work, Casey needs to decide whether they're playing for today, or next season. Ross isn't ready to contribute to winning games. But his development is important for this team's future. Casey can't have it both ways.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I still think we need to give Ross some minutes. Developing/acquiring talent is still more important for this team than winning. I'm not saying you leave him out there if he isn't performing at the expense of a game, but I think he needs some on-court experience to help this team in the long run, especially since we have less roster flexibility moving forward.
    I agree with giving him minutes, but Demar had the same treatment. He started at the shooting guard, but rarely played more than 25+ minutes a game. Over-time, January came around the corner, and Sonny Weems took the starting spot.

    It's very important for him to have the on-court experience going into next season, but quite frankly - like Derozan in his rookie year - he isn't producing much. Ross is supposed to give 3 point shooting and defense, his numbers make it look like it's his weakness. Derozan wasn't asked to do much either, but he was a non-factor in his rookie year.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I'm just not a huge fan of developing during a season where there are settings of expectations. I wasn't happy Demar was starting quite frankly, but his 2nd year he made some great improvements over the Summer.

    Same goes for JV, I was a little skeptical on the fact Casey threw JV into the fire so quickly, but he seems to have handled it very, very well.

    Ross has had some great flashes this season, and been an impact guy in some games, but, otherwise, been a non-factor.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    For this to work, Casey needs to decide whether they're playing for today, or next season. Ross isn't ready to contribute to winning games. But his development is important for this team's future. Casey can't have it both ways.
    +1.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Great points by you guys Reuben and Nilanka. ross still should touch the court though cant kill the kids confidence. this off season will show us the kind of talent and player he is I will be following closely what his character shows during no ball till October.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    With Demar and Rudy playing heavy minutes, Trying to then play Anderson, Fields and Ross is too much ... one has to hit the pines, and it seems like that has been TRoss of late - when maybe it should be Chucker Anderson. Ross has an excuse for being a bit hit and miss, he is a rook ... And a future piece for our franchise.

    I think Gray and Acy are perfectly fine as 4th and 5th bigs, used in a very sparing way ... But with Jonas, Amir and Bargs capable of big minutes - we should not being going small as much as we do.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.
    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    There are exceptions due to injury or foul trouble, but most teams shorten their rotation towards the end of the season (if they haven't done so already).
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    *sigh* We don't literally mean that the 8 players are the only players that play, just the only ones who should weigh down any significant amount of minutes. Go back, and check the minutes of those other players that played. I guarantee you on that 1 team that played 12 guys, don't have more than 9 guys playing 15+ minutes.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    Pretty sure the Lakers are playing an 8-man rotation because they need every win to make the playoffs and are basically playing play-off basketball. The Raps are in a similar situation (with much much less pressure mind you) and so using a shorter rotation would make sense if making the play-offs are the goal.

    I personally don't think play-offs are the #1 goal. (Developing and acquiring) talent is priority #1. Since all meaningful moves are done this year, development is the only way to improve. Making the playoffs is a nice short term prize, but being a better team next year and beyond is more important. The fact that we are even in the playoff discussion and will have meaningful games down the stretch are good enough for me in the W-L column this year. Next year, Ross will need to be a bigger part of the rotation for the team to be in the thick of things. They need his shooting and sitting on the pine, gaining no confidence or experience isn't going to get his game going.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    Hey look, it's DumbassKicker using his old (new) pseudonym again! Welcome back!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hey look, it's DumbassKicker using his old (new) pseudonym again! Welcome back!
    Don't have a basketball related response to a rebuttal of your claim, so back to a bitchy little snit. Typical.

    PS. One last time. i changed my name over there because some clown was using my old one, and posting racist, homophobic, and dumbass comments. I couldn't stop it, so went a route that would avoid that happening. Is that okay for you, snitty weasel?
    Last edited by p00ka; Wed Feb 27th, 2013 at 02:08 PM.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Don't have a basketball related response to a rebuttal of your claim, so back to a bitchy little snit. Typical.
    You were already proven wrong by using boxscores to determine rotations. There was nothing more I needed to say.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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