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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Default The Bench....

    We came into this season being described as "deep" true but to what degree some puddles can be deep. In context though it wasnt bad at all.

    Calderon
    Ross
    Anderson
    Davis
    Johnson

    Calderon was the PG off the bench which should have worked out, but continuously wet bed anytime he came off the pine. Fast forward the bench is now:

    Lucas
    Ross
    Anderson
    Fields
    Bargnani

    Way too many chuckers looking to get theirs in this line up, the problem is the line up has little to no ball movement and provide nothing but wasted possessions, Going forward I hope Telfair and Acy get some burn, they will provide something to address the weakness of the benches productivity. with the way things are now success is limited and might as well just play out the season and ship these selfish players out of town.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Our bench is too deep in the sense that Casey uses too many players. He should only pick his 3 best bench players, and let everyone else ride the pine.

    If Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Amir and Jonas are his starters, our bench only needs a PG (Lucas or Telfair...but not both), a backup wing (one of Fields, Anderson or Ross), and a backup big (one of Bargnani or Gray).

    The 12-man rotations have got to stop. Play the starters heavy minutes. They're our best players. The purpose of the bench is to give the starters a rest...that's it.

    We're coming down the home stretch of the season. We need to get into a playoff rotation. No more crazy, whacky lineups/ substitutions. Identify your top 8 guys and stick to it, dammit!

    End of rant.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Our bench is too deep in the sense that Casey uses too many players. He should only pick his 3 best bench players, and let everyone else ride the pine.

    If Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Amir and Jonas are his starters, our bench only needs a PG (Lucas or Telfair...but not both), a backup wing (one of Fields, Anderson or Ross), and a backup big (one of Bargnani or Gray).

    The 12-man rotations have got to stop. Play the starters heavy minutes. They're our best players. The purpose of the bench is to give the starters a rest...that's it.

    We're coming down the home stretch of the season. We need to get into a playoff rotation. No more crazy, whacky lineups/ substitutions. Identify your top 8 guys and stick to it, dammit!

    End of rant.
    Really well put. Been thinking this for a while; only got reinforced after the Gay trade which should have put the SF rotation issues to bed.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.
    There are exceptions due to injury or foul trouble, but most teams shorten their rotation towards the end of the season (if they haven't done so already).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    The Magic number is 8? the league usually does 9-10, but if your team is young (Like we are) we should have a smaller line.
    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    There are exceptions due to injury or foul trouble, but most teams shorten their rotation towards the end of the season (if they haven't done so already).
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    *sigh* We don't literally mean that the 8 players are the only players that play, just the only ones who should weigh down any significant amount of minutes. Go back, and check the minutes of those other players that played. I guarantee you on that 1 team that played 12 guys, don't have more than 9 guys playing 15+ minutes.

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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    *sigh* We don't literally mean that the 8 players are the only players that play, just the only ones who should weigh down any significant amount of minutes. Go back, and check the minutes of those other players that played. I guarantee you on that 1 team that played 12 guys, don't have more than 9 guys playing 15+ minutes.
    Well, using that 15 minute benchmark of yours, the Raps' recent rotations have been 8 with 10 players used, 7 when 9 players used, 7 with 11 players used, 8 with 10 players used, 8 with 10 players used.................etc, with most of these "extra players" putting in 5-6 minutes. What do you know? Just like the rest of the league,,,,,, not unlike "most of the league".

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    Pretty sure the Lakers are playing an 8-man rotation because they need every win to make the playoffs and are basically playing play-off basketball. The Raps are in a similar situation (with much much less pressure mind you) and so using a shorter rotation would make sense if making the play-offs are the goal.

    I personally don't think play-offs are the #1 goal. (Developing and acquiring) talent is priority #1. Since all meaningful moves are done this year, development is the only way to improve. Making the playoffs is a nice short term prize, but being a better team next year and beyond is more important. The fact that we are even in the playoff discussion and will have meaningful games down the stretch are good enough for me in the W-L column this year. Next year, Ross will need to be a bigger part of the rotation for the team to be in the thick of things. They need his shooting and sitting on the pine, gaining no confidence or experience isn't going to get his game going.
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point. In fact, last night is quite typical: out of 16 teams playing, the number of players used:
    1 team of 12
    6 teams of 11
    6 teams of 10
    3 teams of 9
    0 teams of 8

    And that doesn't touch on Casey having an evolving door of an available roster all year long, coupled with huge changes in available bodies since the Gay trade and Andrea's return. It's almost like starting from scratch in terms of figuring out which combinations work best in given situations. This team has so many new faces this year that it will take a year or two of continuity and familiarity with each other before a tight 8 man rotation can/should be decided upon.
    Hey look, it's DumbassKicker using his old (new) pseudonym again! Welcome back!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hey look, it's DumbassKicker using his old (new) pseudonym again! Welcome back!
    Don't have a basketball related response to a rebuttal of your claim, so back to a bitchy little snit. Typical.

    PS. One last time. i changed my name over there because some clown was using my old one, and posting racist, homophobic, and dumbass comments. I couldn't stop it, so went a route that would avoid that happening. Is that okay for you, snitty weasel?
    Last edited by p00ka; Wed Feb 27th, 2013 at 02:08 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    That's funny, because NOBODY is down to an 8 man rotation at this point.
    Quote from a recent SI article on the Lakers chances of making the play-offs:
    "Utah and Houston — who both go deep into their respective benches — are better protected than the Lakers, who are utilizing a playoff-type eight-man rotation these days."

    http://nba.si.com/2013/02/26/kobe-br...ee/?xid=si_nba

    So your complaint that Nilanka "shifted from most teams to 1" is just as accurate a maneuver as "NOBODY" (in all caps for extra fun) to one of the most prominent teams in the league who, like the Raptors, are chasing down a play-off spot, is also a "Slick maneuver"
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Quote from a recent SI article on the Lakers chances of making the play-offs:
    "Utah and Houston — who both go deep into their respective benches — are better protected than the Lakers, who are utilizing a playoff-type eight-man rotation these days."

    http://nba.si.com/2013/02/26/kobe-br...ee/?xid=si_nba

    So your complaint that Nilanka "shifted from most teams to 1" is just as accurate a maneuver as "NOBODY" (in all caps for extra fun) to one of the most prominent teams in the league who, like the Raptors, are chasing down a play-off spot, is also a "Slick maneuver"
    Hypocrisy is p00ka's middle name (along with 'DumbassKicker', 'CaseyDaMan', and a plethora of other schizophrenia-induced personalities).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Quote from a recent SI article on the Lakers chances of making the play-offs:
    "Utah and Houston — who both go deep into their respective benches — are better protected than the Lakers, who are utilizing a playoff-type eight-man rotation these days."

    http://nba.si.com/2013/02/26/kobe-br...ee/?xid=si_nba

    So your complaint that Nilanka "shifted from most teams to 1" is just as accurate a maneuver as "NOBODY" (in all caps for extra fun) to one of the most prominent teams in the league who, like the Raptors, are chasing down a play-off spot, is also a "Slick maneuver"
    Holy shyt! Are you really this dumb, or just caught up in being a sniveling weasel a la Nilballsa? So, I was off the mark by a whole fn "1" when I said "no team",,,,, out of 30. Wow, great find dude. Misses the point, but you got me with a nitpicking detail that essentially proves my point that VERY FAR FROM "MOST TEAMS", LOL.

    To remind you, Nilballsa was blabbering about "most teams", but if you think cherry picking 1 fn team out of 30 somehow lends some credence to a "most teams" babble, you need some remedial math classes. Thanks for the info though.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    i feel like a lot of the games we've recently won (especially pre-rudy) were basically all done by the bench. we had insane bench scores. but whens the last time ross had more than 2-3 points whenever he was on the floor? seems like ages ago now.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.
    I can live with this.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Johnson, Valanciunas.

    Telfair (Lucas can't run a team if his life depended on it), Fields, and Bargnani.

    Only time we should use Anderson is playing against the opposition's elite wings, or injury, and same for Ross. Winning games over development right now, I'm happy JV is getting the opportunity because he is our future when Gay, Derozan, Lowry are possibly or eventually gone with time.

    Bargnani is our most talented big, and skill is no question, and although his deficiencies and awful play, getting him going and getting production from him will only help us. We are playing pretty solid post-Gay trade with him playing bad, with Bargnani playing a role better suited, and getting better production will only improve our team.

    Aaron Gray plays only against those big ass centres.
    I still think we need to give Ross some minutes. Developing/acquiring talent is still more important for this team than winning. I'm not saying you leave him out there if he isn't performing at the expense of a game, but I think he needs some on-court experience to help this team in the long run, especially since we have less roster flexibility moving forward.
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I still think we need to give Ross some minutes. Developing/acquiring talent is still more important for this team than winning. I'm not saying you leave him out there if he isn't performing at the expense of a game, but I think he needs some on-court experience to help this team in the long run, especially since we have less roster flexibility moving forward.
    For this to work, Casey needs to decide whether they're playing for today, or next season. Ross isn't ready to contribute to winning games. But his development is important for this team's future. Casey can't have it both ways.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    For this to work, Casey needs to decide whether they're playing for today, or next season. Ross isn't ready to contribute to winning games. But his development is important for this team's future. Casey can't have it both ways.
    +1.

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