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Thread: Christianity or Atheism in Canada?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Default Christianity or Atheism in Canada?

    So, I'm a student in Canadian founded university, which is here in Europe and it's Christian as well. Yesterday I was really "pissed" by our Theology(mandatory course) teacher in university, who is from States. Guy's preaching all the time, denying science and calling it a theory, while making Creationism sound as a science, bible as most relevant historical source and other religions bs. He's a smart and kind guy, I just don't think it is professional and objective and after hearing him it's hard not to go into a debate, however he knows every rebuttal for my evidence (which I believe is easy to make up) and if he doesn't he postpones the answer to another class. If you are critical thinker you will surely become atheist after his course even if you were a Christian before it... Where I am heading with this story is:

    What's the situation in Canada or States, is society changing and developing their worldviews or the majority still believe this outdated theory of Christian Creationism (I sounded subjective, I know and you are free to debate).
    Last edited by RandomGuy; Wed Feb 27th, 2013 at 07:23 PM.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Creationism is growing in the States, but Canada is much more science oriented. Also Atheism is growing world wide, but in the states its being met by a reactive group of fundamentalists
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Creationism is growing in the States, but Canada is much more science oriented. Also Atheism is growing world wide, but in the states its being met by a reactive group of fundamentalists
    I don't know about that man. Most of the people I know are all religious but the 'casual' kind such as myself. Most translates to about 90%.

    Been seein' plenty of religion oriented arguments here on the internet and I just facepalm/ignore most of the time. It's all really stupid and miniscule when you think about it. Have not yet witnessed said argument in real life, and I hope I never have to.

    I live in Toronto btw.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    i'm bound to offend somebody due to my strict grey area beliefs..

    organized religion is a load of horse shit.... and by organized religion, i'm including athiesm... they're just as bad

    i'm not trying to knock religion in general.. religion, beliefs, faith, etc etc are great concepts... stories to develop a foundation of morality.. and people believing in these things, aren't stupid people for believing.. they're people who have a sort of foundation for what makes them not an awful person... whether you agree or disagree with their beliefs, doesn't matter... it's their own business to think what they want, and if it's something that makes them an easier person to deal with in day to day life, let them have it.

    have you ever gone to the states and met a mormon? that is one WACKY ASS religion... like REALLY wacky... if it wasn't for scientology, i'd say it was the wackiest of all the western religions..

    but god damn those people are friggin nice as hell.. genuinely nice..

    if their wacky religion of some dude getting a message from god by sticking his head in a hat, and wearing special mormon underwear makes them like that... i vote for more mormons in the world..

    and the weird thing about them... when you talk to them, they aren't really preachy... sure they want to get their message out, but they're open to listening to your side too... it's like they're more interested in the open dialogue of faith than they are about imposing their dogma on you

    then on the flip side... you got the catholics... who, despite actual facts existing that prove some of their stories are a load of horse shit, refuse to let go of the stories in their antiquated old book as fact... instead of just admitting, as ANY rational person would, "well... okay... ya... maybe this whole jesus being the son of god thing might not be true.. but it teaches kids important lessons about the importance of kindness, compassion, and self sacrifice... so the story is important to me"

    athiests are no better... their firm grip upon the idea that there is no god is just as disturbing as a catholics insistence that Job lived in a whale's belly for 3 days, or that two entire cities were turned into salt... the stance of it can't be true because the evidence doesn't exist is extremely dismissive... science proves every friggin day that things that once were thought to be impossible fairy tales can actually happen, they were just way out of our realm of understanding.. tell somebody two centuries ago that today you can be sitting in a coffee shop in toronto while real-time video chatting with your buddy in australia.. tell somebody in the 50s that we'd have instant access at any time to all the information in the world in tiny little boxes we keep in our pockets, but we mainly use it to throw angry birds at pigs..

    these things are inconcievable because they had no basis to believe it was possible.. the evidence available at the time wouldn't indicate that they'd ever come to be.. and if they were dismissive to the possibilities of the unknown actually happening, what he have wouldn't exist...

    There was a line in the movie Dogma that i've pretty much built my personal faith around... im copying it word for word from imdb, because i'd misquote it for sure..

    Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
    Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
    Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier...
    I went to Catholic schools my entire life... i come from an extremely catholic background on my moms side... my dad's side is mixed up religion-wise.. my mom still goes to church every single week...

    i'm now FIRMLY agnostic. i believe that i don't know, and i'm cool with that.

    religion is a great thing for the lessons it can teach people to not be a bunch of dicks to each other... their stories and parables are awesome tools for learning values, but should be treated as such.. not as fact... the minute that religion is used in a way that it makes a person be a dick to somebody else... the entire purpose is defeated

    and the athiest point of view that says there is no god... decent idea, but ultimately dismissive.. to say there's no god because science can't prove there is one, is like somebody in the 3rd century saying there's no way man would ever walk on the moon

    bottom-line... do things in life that make you a decent human being.. whatever your system of faith behind it is, i'm cool with it... don't do things that make you a dick... whatever makes you that way, it's a load of horse shit.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    that post was really long....

    but i got more to add... lol

    years ago.. me and my buddy were travelling through romania... walking down the street, we were passing by a church... and some dude comes up to us and tells us we should really come in and visit the church... so we did...

    when we got in... the dude immediately went on a rant... "do you believe in heaven or hell? it doesn't matter what you believe, because if you don't act this way, you're going to hell.. whether you believe or not. Jesus teaches us BLAH BLAH BLAH"... it was quite infuriating...

    at some point in the conversation, it comes out that we're actually not American, we're Canadians... and their pastor just happens to be Canadian too... so he goes and gets the priest to come talk to us... brings him over, and does the whole "this is father tom, praise jesus. i have to go do something blah blah.. i will be right back" and leaves us with Father Tom

    as soon as the romanian dude leaves, the priest goes "ya, these guys can get a little bit preachy.. so you're from toronto, eh? i havent been there in 15 years... have you ever been to blah blah blah... hey, while you're in town, you should really try this restaurant" etc etc..

    to this day, that priest is my personal example of how religion should be applied to life... don't preach it, live it... let religion let you be a decent person.... don't let religion tell you how to tell other people how to be "decent" people..

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
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    In response to the original question, I'd say that Christianity is absolutely regressing in Canada. I'm using the term Christian to describe people who actually live like followers of Jesus, and there aren't many people like that around these days. For better or worse, this country will be built on the foundation of science. What that will mean for our laws, morals, societal misfits and burdens, unborn babies and global ethics remains to be seen. Our grand children's generation will be a good reflection of whether this was a wise decision or not. Hopefully the Raptors have won a championship by then...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    that post was really long....

    but i got more to add... lol

    years ago.. me and my buddy were travelling through romania... walking down the street, we were passing by a church... and some dude comes up to us and tells us we should really come in and visit the church... so we did...

    when we got in... the dude immediately went on a rant... "do you believe in heaven or hell? it doesn't matter what you believe, because if you don't act this way, you're going to hell.. whether you believe or not. Jesus teaches us BLAH BLAH BLAH"... it was quite infuriating...

    at some point in the conversation, it comes out that we're actually not American, we're Canadians... and their pastor just happens to be Canadian too... so he goes and gets the priest to come talk to us... brings him over, and does the whole "this is father tom, praise jesus. i have to go do something blah blah.. i will be right back" and leaves us with Father Tom

    as soon as the romanian dude leaves, the priest goes "ya, these guys can get a little bit preachy.. so you're from toronto, eh? i havent been there in 15 years... have you ever been to blah blah blah... hey, while you're in town, you should really try this restaurant" etc etc..

    to this day, that priest is my personal example of how religion should be applied to life... don't preach it, live it... let religion let you be a decent person.... don't let religion tell you how to tell other people how to be "decent" people..
    Great thoughts, my thoughts actually. I am agnostic as well and I always use "The wisest of men, knows he knows nothing." as my motto. I was surprised to see that in fact there are people who think completely alike. Todays religions moral values are blessing to humanity, especially for atheists or agnostic people, because they adapt most of these even if they are not religious, it just happen as you live in such society, and that's a good thing, it would be quite chaotic without these moral norms, where I see religions advantage, but at this time when people are developing their individual worldviews and Christianity is shrinking (China's increasing Christian community is saving these numbers) Christians sometimes become pretty agressive towards other worldviews, what I tried to emphasize and that's not good. Atheists aren't different though.
    You mentioned movies, there are in fact few movies, who impacted my thinking and I got the deeper message such as Agora, some good ideas in Cloud Atlas, Shawnhawk Redemption, The Great Dictator.
    Even in songs. This Jacks song really fit this topic:

    Of course it contradicts itself at the same time because he's saying you will never know, but how you can know you will never know that concerning the eternity (never). But those are details.
    Recently one Gipsy called my doorbell, she was begging for money and saying please help me, God will help you. I got confused and politely replied to her, that she cannot use God as an instrument to make me feel sorry, better explain that you need food and you are starving, then everyone shall help you. So I said that I'll bring her food instead of money and told her to wait, she left by the time I brought some cans of products and couple oranges. After that I remmembered her appearance, good enough quality jacket, Gucci handbag. It was her lifestyle and she was using God as an instrument to earn money and earn money in such way. I am way more careful now and do not intend to do good at every step, as yesterday (one drunk poor man came and asked me for 20 cents, I said what for, he said can of beer, I politely refused, if it would have been food then I would be generous). Same opinion about Churches as I believe they were and are using and abusing believers. I believe they are not neccesary.

    Agnoticism isn't invented by us and this is what makes it good worldview, because we are able to create our own beliefs, without being hostile to each others at trying to defend our point.

    Garbo
    I am not surprised about that as Canada is pot of very different cultures and these changing worldviews from traditional to naturalism or agnosticism isn't surprising me. I've saw new statistics few months ago, that Christianity is no longer dominant religion in states, while Atheism has grown into one (couldn't call it religion though). We have neighboors (Sweden) where 90+% of their population are Atheists, what is pretty shocking I suppose, but look at that society, they are one of most humanic and democratic (best social infrastructure) countries in the world with great economy, so it seems that loosing some of Christian values and traditions doesn't really impact your culture negatively it may be vice versa.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; Fri Mar 1st, 2013 at 05:51 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Agnoticism isn't invented by us and this is what makes it good worldview, because we are able to create our own beliefs, without being hostile to each others at trying to defend our point.
    at work, so cant reply to everything right now.. but will reply to this

    agnosticism to me isn't about religion... in it's simplest terms, on the surface, you could view it as such..

    but the reality of the world is that i don't know everything... and that is a beautiful thing

    being unsure, lacking knowledge, lacking experience... these are AMAZING things to have.. they're the first step to discovery

    finding things, learning things, experiencing things... taking these new ideas and concepts and incorporating them into your being... growing as a person.. these are the things that make life worth living... god or no god

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post

    have you ever gone to the states and met a mormon? that is one WACKY ASS religion... like REALLY wacky... if it wasn't for scientology, i'd say it was the wackiest of all the western religions..

    but god damn those people are friggin nice as hell.. genuinely nice..

    if their wacky religion of some dude getting a message from god by sticking his head in a hat, and wearing special mormon underwear makes them like that... i vote for more mormons in the world..

    and the weird thing about them... when you talk to them, they aren't really preachy... sure they want to get their message out, but they're open to listening to your side too... it's like they're more interested in the open dialogue of faith than they are about imposing their dogma on you
    I met a couple mormons from the States here in Canada. I thought I was lucky to meet such nice guys that aren't preachy, but I guess I'm not the only one

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    I met a couple mormons from the States here in Canada. I thought I was lucky to meet such nice guys that aren't preachy, but I guess I'm not the only one
    lol... you can't knock a religion that makes really awesome people... no matter how bonkers their beliefs are

    hell... if you choose to take star wars as a religion and it somehow teaches you life lessons that make you a better person without being a preachy douche... i will fully support your right to that religion

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