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Thread: Raptors seriously needs a new coach!!! The Van Gundy brothers are available

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    seems to me 9th is the spot were going for. bargs and a future first rounder is a much better trade chip than bargs alone.

    Casey is a good coach. his bench sucks and anytime they don't show up we are going to lose. he only has one bench option and it is to throw out 3 different volume shooters and hope one gets going.

    bargs has just been horrible since going to the bench. so bad. so so so bad. but the only other option he has is give up on the season and play acy or offensively inept fields. his only hope is bargs comes in and makes some baskets.

    I would have liked to see telfair get more burn but the Playbook of "anyone of the bench players you pass the ball to is going to shoot it right away" must be difficult tl master.

    I understand the hurt after all the recent optimism and we are being shat on by worse teams then us.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    I want to add his rotations vs the knicks

    We had amare + chandler down to 5 fouls. So the knicks bench chandler. Casey's response? Go 4 guards and chuck threes for the next ten minutes. Like what the fuck really?

  3. #23
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    Just wanted to add to this discussion that most coaches make almost no difference to their team's success. I wish I still had the link to the research, but only a handful of NBA coaches consistently produce winning results across multiple rosters and teams; like 95% of the time it's the talent level on the roster that matters. Sure coaches can sabotage teams by being awful, but it takes a truly rare and exceptional coach to get his players playing above their abilities consistently. You can argue all you like about whether Casey is that kind of sabotaging force, but to expect him to work miracles with this roster is a bit silly.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just wanted to add to this discussion that most coaches make almost no difference to their team's success. I wish I still had the link to the research, but only a handful of NBA coaches consistently produce winning results across multiple rosters and teams; like 95% of the time it's the talent level on the roster that matters. Sure coaches can sabotage teams by being awful, but it takes a truly rare and exceptional coach to get his players playing above their abilities consistently. You can argue all you like about whether Casey is that kind of sabotaging force, but to expect him to work miracles with this roster is a bit silly.
    I think that is the issue here.

    The Raptors do in fact have talent. They aren't deep and they aren't overwhelmed by it but there are some pieces here.

    No, Casey might not lead to wins but he can certainly help avoid losses. He is making some dumb ass decisions that were easily ignored or unnoticed with the talent level of last year and early this year.

    Forget X's and O's. Forget sub patterns. Forget matchups. Forget screwing over JV and TR.

    The number one concern I have right now is his lack to motivate.

    Motivation has always been Casey's calling card. Guys bought in. Guys played hard. Guys were motivated.

    These last 2 games - the most important games of the last 2 seasons (actually nearly 4 seasons) - were a serious let down.

    I don't know why this is but whatever the reason that falls on the coach - fair or not.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #25
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    So you're saying you blame a lack of motivation during a playoff race on the coach and not the players? Gotcha.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I don't think the team is playing unmotivated. I thought they played hard last night... I just don't think they played very well.

    Maybe the honeymoon phase of the Rudy Gay trade skewed people's expectations a little too high but I still see this roster with some glaring holes. They still don't have a real backup PG (JL3 doesn't count), they have no real back to the basket option on offense, their sixth man is hitting rock bottom in his NBA career, they have a rookie starting at centre, the rest of their bench is completely hit or miss from game to game and their two best players are more often than not sub .500 shooters even during their best games.

    The last two games are beyond disappointing, especially with what was on the line. But this isn't the Heat/Thunder where you can expect them to beat teams like the Cavs just by showing up. They still don't have a top 16 roster in the league and when that's the case... no game is a guarantee.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I don't think the team is playing unmotivated. I thought they played hard last night... I just don't think they played very well.

    Maybe the honeymoon phase of the Rudy Gay trade skewed people's expectations a little too high but I still see this roster with some glaring holes. They still don't have a real backup PG (JL3 doesn't count), they have no real back to the basket option on offense, their sixth man is hitting rock bottom in his NBA career, they have a rookie starting at centre, the rest of their bench is completely hit or miss from game to game and their two best players are more often than not sub .500 shooters even during their best games.

    The last two games are beyond disappointing, especially with what was on the line. But this isn't the Heat/Thunder where you can expect them to beat teams like the Cavs just by showing up. They still don't have a top 16 roster in the league and when that's the case... no game is a guarantee.
    +1

    Casey has made some odd decisions but he's a guy that the players want to play for (well everyone except for Bargnani apparently). That's actually very important. Lowry hated playing for McHale and got traded because of it.

    Casey is not a perfect coach but the Raptors are far from being a perfect team. They have many holes as you stated, and that is really on Colangelo to improve, who I still don't think should be running the show.

  8. #28
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    I like casey But i hate his rotations . There is no excuse to ride anderson for so long and leave ross on the bench.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    For me, Casey's biggest problems are:

    1. His refusal to set on a consistent rotation.
    2. His inability to instill any discipline in terms of shot selection (far too many wasted possessions throughout the course of a game).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    We're playing as a group of individual chuckers with token big guys. As Chuck always says, you don't live by the jumpers. You die by the jumpers. This emphasizes a glaring hole in the middle. We simply lack the talent up front especially since Bargnani cannot give two f*cks about this team.

    Our roster has an imbalance and it's not all Casey's fault. I actually thought he adjusted his game plan in terms of how they go about their offense, opening it more up as opposed to structuring it with the ever predictable plays. He got Demar and Rudy attacking early and often. They got the ball inside and the tempo was faster than our usual.

    His mistakes started with playing small ball with the bench but seriously, Gray? Bargnani? That leaves you with very little options. I would consider leaving Gray in with the bench since he actually takes up space and rebounds. The bench did nothing for us; completely scrubbed.

    Why he would leave Bargnani the "floor spacer" is beyond me. But the trio of Gay, Lowry and Derozan were actually really effective.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    This team is not going anywhere with Dwane Casey. These past 2 games alone should get him fired. Not to mention all the 4th quarter blown leads this season.

    Couple of things:

    - Bargnani tonight played 15mins most of them in the 4th. Finished with 1rb and 1ast. Defensively he's a liability so if he's not hitting shots what's the point of keeping him on the floor?
    I think Casey read the forums and thought Bargnani would perform better because he wasn't getting booed.

    Hahaha.. sorry, I couldn't resist.

    Seriously though, Casey's rotations are very strange. Maybe there's more to it than what we're seeing (Colangelo?).
    your pal,
    ebrian

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    For me, Casey's biggest problems are:

    1. His refusal to set on a consistent rotation.
    2. His inability to instill any discipline in terms of shot selection (far too many wasted possessions throughout the course of a game).
    Agreed with this.

    At this level, motivation is never on the coach, IMO. However, a coach can and should control who gets PT, and what they do with their PT in terms of fulfilling their role and not going beyond it.

    I don't get the rotations lately at all. I don't understand Valanciunas sitting down the stretch, I don't get Ross sitting the whole game, and I really don't get why Fields isn't getting 4th quarter minutes. It almost seems like there's a rotation set in stone going into the tip-off, and regardless of how things go during the game, the rotation stays the same as it was drawn up pre-game. Maybe they really have been playing for the #8 spot since the break, and think that the "vets" give them the best chance. But there should be no illusions now -- either about making the playoffs or about the vets being the ones to get them there.

    I think Anderson and Lucas should be end-of-benchers for the rest of the year. Just accept giving up the pick this year, and develop Valanciunas and Ross. Get Fields as many minutes as he can handle, because you're going to need him playing 20-25 a game next season. Spot minutes for Bargnani/Gray behind Amir and Jonas, and Telfair behind Lowry.

    There's your 8-man rotation plus spares. It seems obvious to me. But maybe management still thinks they can make up 5 games over the next 20-some by playing a journeyman SG/PG pair heavy minutes...
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I think Anderson and Lucas should be end-of-benchers for the rest of the year. Just accept giving up the pick this year, and develop Valanciunas and Ross. Get Fields as many minutes as he can handle, because you're going to need him playing 20-25 a game next season. Spot minutes for Bargnani/Gray behind Amir and Jonas, and Telfair behind Lowry.
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  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Nobody brings up the big games we've won under him, little a coach can do when the players don't produce, He goes off all game from the sideline reminding shouting and leading them on defense cause he knows he cant trust them to do it themselves yet... Casey coached an awful Minnesota team with only Kevin Garnett with a bunch of scrubs to .500 ball and was surprisingly fired the coach that took his place ran the wolves into the ground. he led a a japanes team to the the world championships in asia after 30 years of the team not making it. Dallas has a a championship because of him Carlisle let him close out a lot of games in that run ahem Lakers sweep and finals game 2 and 4 not to mention the mastermind behind stopping LBJ Bosh and D Wade for a series...

    Its the team not Casey no coach I dont care who it is could win with what the reserves did tonight yes you can say he should have subbed them out, but sooner or later you need some people off the bench to provide something anything to help the team win. I dont get the DC hate fans seriously do not know how fortunate they are to have him leading the Raptors team.

    This is exactly why he's not a great Head Coach in this league. Not debating his effort and desire to win. You can scream and shout all you want but if your systems don't work you're in and endless cycle. Need to be able to adapt on the fly and have a number of different options and be able to implement them. Be it, with correct personnel or proper understanding of mismatches. A defensive specialist is fine but there are 2 sides to the game. I truly believe the players don't have a lot to work with or understand exactly what they're supposed to be doing. I'm fine with DC as an assistant coach/defensive coordinator. Just not confident in him running the show.
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  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    So you're saying you blame a lack of motivation during a playoff race on the coach and not the players? Gotcha.
    Pretty much.

    At the end of the day it is the coach's responsibility to get the most out of his players talent.

    The last 2 games he has not done that..... not even close. The team has looked lost.

    To make matters worse, the game plan looks flawed, the game management has been brutal, and the execution is horrible (which has been an on going issue).

    Players aren't stupid. If they don't believe in his abilities or decisions as coach (which many fans are questioning of late), motivation is destined to be lacking for the players.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #36
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    "Motivation" has been brought up multiple times in this thread (or lack of). I have sensed that too and of course Casey's inexplicable lack of feel for how the game is proceeding (ebb & flows) and making adjustments/replacements/time outs. Re the motivation, Doug Smith (Star) has a piece today slamming Bargnani's efforts last night and mentions that the team is close to losing confidence in him. DS at the best of times does not put out stuff like that. Seems like some have spoken to him about it already.


    http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptor...tes_smith.html

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Bc fucked up yet again. He should've pulled the trigger on the boozer deal. When Val and Amir aren't playing we get eaten up on the glass. We need a another big that can score Down low and rebound. I say we go for al Jefferson this off season

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "Motivation" has been brought up multiple times in this thread (or lack of). I have sensed that too and of course Casey's inexplicable lack of feel for how the game is proceeding (ebb & flows) and making adjustments/replacements/time outs. Re the motivation, Doug Smith (Star) has a piece today slamming Bargnani's efforts last night and mentions that the team is close to losing confidence in him. DS at the best of times does not put out stuff like that. Seems like some have spoken to him about it already.
    What the hell.. they're only now 'close to' losing confidence in him? How much longer is it going to take?!
    your pal,
    ebrian

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    What the hell.. they're only now 'close to' losing confidence in him? How much longer is it going to take?!
    lol
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    What the hell.. they're only now 'close to' losing confidence in him? How much longer is it going to take?!
    I came to post almost the exact same thing. Apparently Bargnani is going to do nothing short of taking a dump at midcourt before some people in the Raptors organization see the light.

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