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Thread: Rudy Gay "Pseudo Superstar"

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    Raptors Republic Rookie DeRozanJohnsonFan's Avatar
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    Default Rudy Gay "Pseudo Superstar"

    Apparently Rudy Gay is being labelled the "pseudo superstar" after looking pretty good coming from the trade back in January. Considering that BC has been looking to obtain a "superstar" calibre player similar to an Tracy McGrady/Vince Carter/Chris Bosh, the word around town is that other than the fact that the Memphis Grizzlies wanted to cut off Gay due to the luxury tax, they felt that he wasn't as consistent as Conley, Gasol and Randolph. Can this one guy bring the raptors into playoff contention?

    http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/0...raptors-covet/

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    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Gay brought a lot of talent, and through sheer talent alone he managed to take away a couple close games in the last seconds. HOWEVER, I feel like at this point in time Rudy Gay is nowhere near the calibre of the likes of LBJ/KD/JHarden/Curry etc. His numbers did in fact increase after he was traded here, but the numbers don't tell the full story. The fact of the matter is that Gay doesn't look very good right now. If he wants to be the top dog in the NBA, he needs to keep improving, and right now it looks like he didn't improve at all from the last year, dare I say he even has regressed.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Gay isn't in the same category as Carter/McGrady in their primes. He's not the type who can single-handedly turn a franchise around, or carry his team on his back. But he's still a welcome addition to the team.

    It's up to Colangelo to keep adding pieces, and for Casey to play his best players instead of his biggest contracts.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    That's exactly it. It was looking good in the beginning, but I think we have to manage expectations here. If you thought that in the NBA you can trade an expiring contract and a limited (albeit a guy a really liked) young power forward for "THE SAVIOR OF THE FRANCHISE", then you were kidding yourself.

    We're 7-5 with Rudy Gay and that ain't half bad. It started out great, but the inherent flaws this team had are still with us. We're still at least 1 player (of his caliber) away from being a playoff team. And JV is about 2-3 years away from potentially becoming that player. So we still need to make moves. We didn't at the deadline, so I'm hoping we will in the offseason.

    This was a winnable game as was Washington, but we also beat the Knicks twice and Denver. When you have a young team as we do, you're going to see that kind of inconsistency. I hope you didn't see those 3 wins and think we had turned some kind of imaginary corner -- the talent has remained as has the inconsistency. If you want to know my opinion, considering the awful start I think it would be pretty great if we can finish with more than 30 wins this season.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    As is popping up all over the site today there have been a series of bad coaching decisions being made lately...both in strategy and in-game. The steady guy in this has been Demar which is a bit of a surprise to me.

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    Rudy gay comparisons to Vince are much closer than we in Toronto would like to admit. Remember the opportunity to trade Vince for Kobe straight up? No one would make the deal at the time because Vince was "better". Same reason why I believe Demar will be better than Rudy. WORK ETHIC. Demar is a gym rat as Kobe. Vince and Rudy are other world talents with physical gifts that they relied on too early in their careers and never really had to work hard because things came so naturally/easily for them. Demar and Kobe work on their games more. Rudy's laziness to go to the basket and settle for those off balance contested jumpers is lazy. He is Vince 2.0. Do not hate on Demar or give up on him. I don't think he will ever be Kobe. BUt he works. and he improves and will be even better than he is now. He takes criticism and gets better. Remember this

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    Quote urbanmonk15 wrote: View Post
    Rudy gay comparisons to Vince are much closer than we in Toronto would like to admit. Remember the opportunity to trade Vince for Kobe straight up? No one would make the deal at the time because Vince was "better". Same reason why I believe Demar will be better than Rudy. WORK ETHIC. Demar is a gym rat as Kobe. Vince and Rudy are other world talents with physical gifts that they relied on too early in their careers and never really had to work hard because things came so naturally/easily for them. Demar and Kobe work on their games more. Rudy's laziness to go to the basket and settle for those off balance contested jumpers is lazy. He is Vince 2.0. Do not hate on Demar or give up on him. I don't think he will ever be Kobe. BUt he works. and he improves and will be even better than he is now. He takes criticism and gets better. Remember this
    Thank you

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    It's been 12 games. I never believed that Rudy was on bar with KD/LBJ but, do believe he is a top 5 player at his position. The only issue with Rudy is his shot selection. To his defense with his length and hieghthe can get off a shot at any time. When he puts his mind on going to the rim and finishing strong his hard to stop. I see him as a poor man's Kevin Durant. That's saying a lot.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    It's been 12 games. I never believed that Rudy was on bar with KD/LBJ but, do believe he is a top 5 player at his position. The only issue with Rudy is his shot selection. To his defense with his length and hieghthe can get off a shot at any time. When he puts his mind on going to the rim and finishing strong his hard to stop. I see him as a poor man's Kevin Durant. That's saying a lot.
    I agree it's his shot selection....something which can be taught. Other than that, Gay's got the skills to be a legit starter on a contender.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
    Gay brought a lot of talent, and through sheer talent alone he managed to take away a couple close games in the last seconds. HOWEVER, I feel like at this point in time Rudy Gay is nowhere near the calibre of the likes of LBJ/KD/JHarden/Curry etc. His numbers did in fact increase after he was traded here, but the numbers don't tell the full story. The fact of the matter is that Gay doesn't look very good right now. If he wants to be the top dog in the NBA, he needs to keep improving, and right now it looks like he didn't improve at all from the last year, dare I say he even has regressed.
    I think its a bit unfair for Gay to be compared to these guys in being a "franchise player" type way. Gay was not bred as a franchise player like these guys were. Gay started as a complimentary piece to Gasol when he was drafted 8th overall, and started his career playing with solid veterans like Mike Miller and Stoudemire and was arguably a 4th option on the team. Even when the reigns were "passed on" to him afterm Gasol left, he wasnt really the #1 option. Zbo came in, Gasol, Conley and Memphis was more of a non-franchise player type of team.

    With what i can see right now, Gay isnt the type that can carry a team, but he can help you win games if you give him the ball in clutch time. And i do not see anything wrong with that.

    I'll reserve my judgement after the Raps acquire a bigman with post presence and a full training camp with a full season's worth or practices.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    That's exactly it. It was looking good in the beginning, but I think we have to manage expectations here. If you thought that in the NBA you can trade an expiring contract and a limited (albeit a guy a really liked) young power forward for "THE SAVIOR OF THE FRANCHISE", then you were kidding yourself.

    We're 7-5 with Rudy Gay and that ain't half bad. It started out great, but the inherent flaws this team had are still with us. We're still at least 1 player (of his caliber) away from being a playoff team. And JV is about 2-3 years away from potentially becoming that player. So we still need to make moves. We didn't at the deadline, so I'm hoping we will in the offseason.

    This was a winnable game as was Washington, but we also beat the Knicks twice and Denver. When you have a young team as we do, you're going to see that kind of inconsistency. I hope you didn't see those 3 wins and think we had turned some kind of imaginary corner -- the talent has remained as has the inconsistency. If you want to know my opinion, considering the awful start I think it would be pretty great if we can finish with more than 30 wins this season.
    +1.

    What strikes me is that people regard Gay as a savior that will help the team turn the corner yet theyre saying he's no franchise player.

    And now he's getting the brunt of the blame when he's playing with the same group that lost 20+ games before he came.

    I'm confused.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Bosh was pseudo star to many here too... beggers can't be choosers.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    +1.

    What strikes me is that people regard Gay as a savior that will help the team turn the corner yet theyre saying he's no franchise player.

    And now he's getting the brunt of the blame when he's playing with the same group that lost 20+ games before he came.
    I'd like to think of our journey right now as us traversing around a hexagon. This team was headed in the wrong direction fast but the Gay trade allowed us to turn about 60 degrees. A couple more moves will have us turn the other 120 degrees and head full steam towards playoffs. If those moves are made in the offseason, we could potentially be talking playoffs next year.. if they aren't done in the offseason then we'll be talking the year after.

    I've created a diagram for this here:


    The Purple part is dependent upon Colangelo not making another stupid signing where he outbids NO ONE and overpays someone who ends up sucking. If he continues his ways, like making another Landry Fields-type mistake, then we may turn another 60 degrees.. still winning but precariously where one more bad move and we're going the wrong way again.
    Last edited by ebrian; Thu Feb 28th, 2013 at 03:39 PM.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I'd like to think of our journey right now as us traversing around a hexagon. This team was headed in the wrong direction fast but the Gay trade allowed us to turn about 60 degrees. A couple more moves will have us turn the other 120 degrees and head full steam towards playoffs. If those moves are made in the offseason, we could potentially be talking playoffs next year.. if they aren't done in the offseason then we'll be talking the year after.

    I've created a diagram for this here:


    The Purple part is dependent upon Colangelo not making another stupid signing where he outbids NO ONE and overpays someone who ends up sucking. If he continues his ways, like making another Landry Fields-type mistake, then we may turn another 60 degrees.. still winning but precariously where one more bad move and we're going the wrong way again.
    Lol that diagram is awesome. Gay is no superstar like KD or LBJ so we can't expect him to turn the franchise around the moment he arrives. But he's got the tools to be real close to one. I think it's way too early to make any judgement calls since he's only been here for 12 games.

    You guys gotta remember that on memphis, they dump the ball to the bigs and plays run through them. Gay's responsibility was primarily a scorer/slasher. When he gets the ball, he's going to shoot or he attacks the rim. Now on raps, not only is he the go to primary option, we're also expecting him to facilitate others. We all know Casey isn't the best at offense so it's going to take time for Gay to figure this out.

    But one thing i know for sure is he's going to play a big part of our franchise moving forward. Not because of his contract, but his talent is by far the best we've had in a while.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gay isn't in the same category as Carter/McGrady in their primes. He's not the type who can single-handedly turn a franchise around, or carry his team on his back. But he's still a welcome addition to the team.

    It's up to Colangelo to keep adding pieces, and for Casey to play his best players instead of his biggest contracts.
    That is the problem. We are paying him to be that guy when he's not. Our cap situation is completely fucked with his contract.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    That is the problem. We are paying him to be that guy when he's not. Our cap situation is completely fucked with his contract.
    Let's have some perspective here. Amare's contract is very bloated for a starter, let alone a bench player. Is ESPN complaining about their star franchise (The Knicks) in the largest market in the States? No. The last time I checked, this is still a team sport. Yes, there's Lebron (which is the star of the Heat) but is surrounded by star players. Of course there's Durant (also surrounded by very good players). Gay deserves to be surrounded by good players too. I'm not comparing Gay to those two (even though it looks like it). It's team ball. We've seen what Gay's presence has done with Demar's evolution. Right now I see two problems with this team: ball movement and the 2nd unit. Gay's contract is massive. He's paid like a number 1 and with the Raps, he is number 1. Lebron and Bosh have identical salaries yet no one talks about Bosh as 1B in Miami. The metric of salaries is eschewed. Quite frankly, I'd rather have Rudy as a starter than Amare' at my bench.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Not sure I remember anyone ever saying Rudy was a superstar. I believe he has been underrated throughout he career but not close to superstar status. I agree with BBallCrush in that many never though Bosh was a superstar, I never thought that either. And Carter or McGrady only won one series. Without Oak, Willis, Curry, Davis, Bogues, et al. they wouldn't have ever been as successful as they were. The team that surrounds DeRozan, Gay, and Val next year will determine their overall success. It's not Casey's fault completely that the team isn't winning these games. It's the talent level. Gay will look like a superstar when we have some solid vets with some leadership and so will DeRozan.

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote urbanmonk15 wrote: View Post
    Rudy gay comparisons to Vince are much closer than we in Toronto would like to admit. Remember the opportunity to trade Vince for Kobe straight up? No one would make the deal at the time because Vince was "better". Same reason why I believe Demar will be better than Rudy. WORK ETHIC. Demar is a gym rat as Kobe. Vince and Rudy are other world talents with physical gifts that they relied on too early in their careers and never really had to work hard because things came so naturally/easily for them. Demar and Kobe work on their games more. Rudy's laziness to go to the basket and settle for those off balance contested jumpers is lazy. He is Vince 2.0. Do not hate on Demar or give up on him. I don't think he will ever be Kobe. BUt he works. and he improves and will be even better than he is now. He takes criticism and gets better. Remember this
    Well put my friend! Demar has crazy work ethic and improves EVERY YEAR. No doubt he'll come back next year even better.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    Quote Pong wrote: View Post
    Lol that diagram is awesome. Gay is no superstar like KD or LBJ so we can't expect him to turn the franchise around the moment he arrives. But he's got the tools to be real close to one. I think it's way too early to make any judgement calls since he's only been here for 12 games.

    You guys gotta remember that on memphis, they dump the ball to the bigs and plays run through them. Gay's responsibility was primarily a scorer/slasher. When he gets the ball, he's going to shoot or he attacks the rim. Now on raps, not only is he the go to primary option, we're also expecting him to facilitate others. We all know Casey isn't the best at offense so it's going to take time for Gay to figure this out.

    But one thing i know for sure is he's going to play a big part of our franchise moving forward. Not because of his contract, but his talent is by far the best we've had in a while.
    +1

    I think Rudy Gay is the closest thing to a Super Star the Raptors will be able to attract minus the Draft Lottery. Opposing teams realize he is our only legitimate threat and so they double and triple team him. He is still not comfortable with how the Raptors play, and is probably not used to our pylon offense. Dwayne Casey needs to start drawing up some offensive plays, other than Isolation for Rudy. That being said, I have nothing but optimism for the Raptors moving forward with the talent pool we currently have. If we can get rid of Bargnani for a real power forward, we are set.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie DeRozanJohnsonFan's Avatar
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    Quote JalenRose5 wrote: View Post
    +1

    I think Rudy Gay is the closest thing to a Super Star the Raptors will be able to attract minus the Draft Lottery. Opposing teams realize he is our only legitimate threat and so they double and triple team him. He is still not comfortable with how the Raptors play, and is probably not used to our pylon offense. Dwayne Casey needs to start drawing up some offensive plays, other than Isolation for Rudy. That being said, I have nothing but optimism for the Raptors moving forward with the talent pool we currently have. If we can get rid of Bargnani for a real power forward, we are set.
    That's if we can get rid of Bargnani....he looks way to comfortable in Toronto. I agree when it comes to DeMar, if he continues to be consistent on and off court concerning his approach and skills to the game he will be more deserving of the superstar status in Toronto. I hope future wise he'll remain in Toronto cause it's a guarantee that if he decides to jump ship to another team he will be an absolute beast on the offensive end.

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