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Rudy Gay "Pseudo Superstar"

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  • #46
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yup.

    I fear Gay might be another Carter or McGrady (albeit not as talented) in the sense that they get by on their natural abilities and don't put the work in to improve their game and take care of their bodies.

    Working with McKechnie and strengthening his core is imperative for Rudy this summer.... and fixing his 3pt shot.
    He could also benefit like Demar to further develop that box/post game. Carmelo uses it extremely well now as does Lebron and even the likes of Wilson Chandler operate that game. For Ross? just get out there and play.

    Comment


    • #47
      There is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.

      The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?

      In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
      Lebron James
      Kevin Durant
      Kobe Bryant
      Chris Paul
      Derrick Rose
      Kevin Garnett
      Tim Duncan
      Dirk Nowitski

      These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.

      So, who isn't on the list:
      Dwayne Wade
      Tony Parker
      Chris Bosh
      Paul Pierce
      Russel Westbrook
      Dwight Howard
      Kevin Love
      Carmelo Anthony
      Deron Williams
      Josh Smith
      Monta Ellis
      Brandon Jennings
      Jrue Holiday
      John Wall
      Kyrie Irving
      Manu Ginobili
      Blake Griffin
      Ty Lawson
      Marc Gasol
      Zach Randolf
      James Harden
      Steph Curry
      Steve Nash
      Pau Gasol
      Al Jefferson
      Paul Millsap
      Rudy Gay

      These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.

      And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.

      One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.

      There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?

      I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. I’m hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.

      Comment


      • #48
        JawsGT wrote: View Post
        In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
        Lebron James
        Kevin Durant
        Kobe Bryant
        Chris Paul
        Derrick Rose
        Kevin Garnett
        Tim Duncan
        Dirk Nowitski
        I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

        The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

        Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...

        My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.
        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:59 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          JawsGT wrote: View Post
          There is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.

          The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?

          In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
          Lebron James
          Kevin Durant
          Kobe Bryant
          Chris Paul
          Derrick Rose
          Kevin Garnett
          Tim Duncan
          Dirk Nowitski

          These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.

          So, who isn't on the list:
          Dwayne Wade
          Tony Parker
          Chris Bosh
          Paul Pierce
          Russel Westbrook
          Dwight Howard
          Kevin Love
          Carmelo Anthony
          Deron Williams
          Josh Smith
          Monta Ellis
          Brandon Jennings
          Jrue Holiday
          John Wall
          Kyrie Irving
          Manu Ginobili
          Blake Griffin
          Ty Lawson
          Marc Gasol
          Zach Randolf
          James Harden
          Steph Curry
          Steve Nash
          Pau Gasol
          Al Jefferson
          Paul Millsap
          Rudy Gay

          These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.

          And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.

          One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.

          There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?

          I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. I’m hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.
          Great post. Logical and not seething with venom. I wish we had more of that around here.

          I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.

          Comment


          • #50
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

            The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

            Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...
            Howard before injury should make the list though.

            Comment


            • #51
              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
              Howard before injury should make the list though.
              His offense, attitude and ability to be negated via hack-a-Howard make him borderline at best, in my opinion. Prior to the drama during his last season in Orlando, I would have agreed with you completely, but I've been unimpressed by him the past two seasons.

              Comment


              • #52
                Primer wrote: View Post
                Great post. Logical and not seething with venom. I wish we had more of that around here.

                I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.
                In that same vein, if we could somehow swap Bargs for Boozer in the off season I think we'd have a team that could contend for the division championship. Not a NBA championship, but it'd be fun to watch the next 2 years until all the big contracts are up and JV/Ross/DD should be ready to lead the team.

                Comment


                • #53
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

                  The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

                  Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...

                  My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.
                  Which goes back to your original thinking (and now my changed thinking) of packaging Derozan along with Bargnani, for a big man who IS efficient, plays inside, rebounds, and defends, allowing Fields (efficient, plays off-ball, good balance to Rudy and Ross requiring the ball to be effective) to be the shooting guard.

                  Problem solved! Except, our cap will still be SHIT!
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Primer wrote: View Post
                    In that same vein, if we could somehow swap Bargs for Boozer in the off season I think we'd have a team that could contend for the division championship. Not a NBA championship, but it'd be fun to watch the next 2 years until all the big contracts are up and JV/Ross/DD should be ready to lead the team.
                    I'm all about dumping Bargs, but I'm not interested in Boozer as much. I like Amir starting, he does too many things the other starters don't do, and is a better defensive presence than Boozer. With JV developing, and RG, DD and Lowry all decent scorers (or, at least, should be), I don't think an offensive PF is the best option. I'd take a Carl Landry though. I'd also support a Bargs - Derozan package like RaptorReuben, with a return of a good shooter and a backup center or PG and/or draft pick. I like Derozan, but I think having him and Gay in the lineup is a little redundant like CalgaryRapsFan has pointed out. Furthermore, I think the pair is limiting Lowry's effectiveness, because they don't demand spacing from the defense making it difficult for Lowry to play his offensive game.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

                      The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.
                      Probably the only reason I wouldn't put Howard on this list is his attitude. You could certainly build a team around him, but would you want to? After the shenanigans in Orlando, and all the drama in LA this season with Kobe and what-not, I don't believe Howard is the ideal teammate. He brought Orlando to the finals without another second tier player, so a system developed around Howard, going inside-out with a bunch of shooters can work. I don't know, I'm biased here...i just don't like him lol.
                      Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Mar 27, 2013, 09:46 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        It was very refreshing hearing Roberto Luongo talk about why he wasn't traded yesterday, claiming, "my contract sucks".

                        I wonder if Gay would ever admit that

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Some buy gay so ball handling skilks

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            grindhouse wrote: View Post
                            Some buy gay so ball handling skilks
                            Raptor fans will never be satisfied.
                            @Chr1st1anL

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              grindhouse wrote: View Post
                              Some buy gay so ball handling skilks
                              what?
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                                what?
                                Time to bring back an old favorite?

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