Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 70

Thread: Rudy Gay "Pseudo Superstar"

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    You know what era this reminds me?!

    Mike James = Kyle Lowry
    ... Are you serious? Lowry blows Mike James out of the water across the board except TO% and USG. In TO%, James is a career 13.6% and Lowry is a career 16.3%; in USG, James is a career 21.1 and Lowry is a career 19.2. Lowry isn't even that old. He's not super young by any means, but he's only turning 27 in a few days. Simple comparison: every one of Lowry's WS/48 since he first landed in Houston are better than James' only season in Toronto - and for Mike James, he was a lights out shooter that season.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,584
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/90...-rudy-gay-down

    Looks like Rudy may be shut down for the season.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Ross will start Gay needs to rest up and work with Mckhenie asap and often.

  4. Like white men can't jump liked this post
  5. #44
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,284
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Ross will start Gay needs to rest up and work with Mckhenie asap and often.
    Yup.

    I fear Gay might be another Carter or McGrady (albeit not as talented) in the sense that they get by on their natural abilities and don't put the work in to improve their game and take care of their bodies.

    Working with McKechnie and strengthening his core is imperative for Rudy this summer.... and fixing his 3pt shot.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    ... Are you serious? Lowry blows Mike James out of the water across the board except TO% and USG. In TO%, James is a career 13.6% and Lowry is a career 16.3%; in USG, James is a career 21.1 and Lowry is a career 19.2. Lowry isn't even that old. He's not super young by any means, but he's only turning 27 in a few days. Simple comparison: every one of Lowry's WS/48 since he first landed in Houston are better than James' only season in Toronto - and for Mike James, he was a lights out shooter that season.
    If anyone resembles Mike James this season, it's Alan Anderson.

  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yup.

    I fear Gay might be another Carter or McGrady (albeit not as talented) in the sense that they get by on their natural abilities and don't put the work in to improve their game and take care of their bodies.

    Working with McKechnie and strengthening his core is imperative for Rudy this summer.... and fixing his 3pt shot.
    He could also benefit like Demar to further develop that box/post game. Carmelo uses it extremely well now as does Lebron and even the likes of Wilson Chandler operate that game. For Ross? just get out there and play.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.

    The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?

    In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
    Lebron James
    Kevin Durant
    Kobe Bryant
    Chris Paul
    Derrick Rose
    Kevin Garnett
    Tim Duncan
    Dirk Nowitski

    These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.

    So, who isn't on the list:
    Dwayne Wade
    Tony Parker
    Chris Bosh
    Paul Pierce
    Russel Westbrook
    Dwight Howard
    Kevin Love
    Carmelo Anthony
    Deron Williams
    Josh Smith
    Monta Ellis
    Brandon Jennings
    Jrue Holiday
    John Wall
    Kyrie Irving
    Manu Ginobili
    Blake Griffin
    Ty Lawson
    Marc Gasol
    Zach Randolf
    James Harden
    Steph Curry
    Steve Nash
    Pau Gasol
    Al Jefferson
    Paul Millsap
    Rudy Gay

    These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.

    And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.

    One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.

    There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?

    I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. Iím hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.

  9. Like ReubenJRD liked this post
  10. #48
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
    Lebron James
    Kevin Durant
    Kobe Bryant
    Chris Paul
    Derrick Rose
    Kevin Garnett
    Tim Duncan
    Dirk Nowitski
    I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

    The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

    Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...

    My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Mar 26th, 2013 at 03:59 PM.

  11. Like JawsGT liked this post
  12. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    There is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.

    The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?

    In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
    Lebron James
    Kevin Durant
    Kobe Bryant
    Chris Paul
    Derrick Rose
    Kevin Garnett
    Tim Duncan
    Dirk Nowitski

    These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.

    So, who isn't on the list:
    Dwayne Wade
    Tony Parker
    Chris Bosh
    Paul Pierce
    Russel Westbrook
    Dwight Howard
    Kevin Love
    Carmelo Anthony
    Deron Williams
    Josh Smith
    Monta Ellis
    Brandon Jennings
    Jrue Holiday
    John Wall
    Kyrie Irving
    Manu Ginobili
    Blake Griffin
    Ty Lawson
    Marc Gasol
    Zach Randolf
    James Harden
    Steph Curry
    Steve Nash
    Pau Gasol
    Al Jefferson
    Paul Millsap
    Rudy Gay

    These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.

    And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.

    One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.

    There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?

    I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. Iím hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.
    Great post. Logical and not seething with venom. I wish we had more of that around here.

    I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.

  13. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

    The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

    Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...
    Howard before injury should make the list though.

  14. #51
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Howard before injury should make the list though.
    His offense, attitude and ability to be negated via hack-a-Howard make him borderline at best, in my opinion. Prior to the drama during his last season in Orlando, I would have agreed with you completely, but I've been unimpressed by him the past two seasons.

  15. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Great post. Logical and not seething with venom. I wish we had more of that around here.

    I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.
    In that same vein, if we could somehow swap Bargs for Boozer in the off season I think we'd have a team that could contend for the division championship. Not a NBA championship, but it'd be fun to watch the next 2 years until all the big contracts are up and JV/Ross/DD should be ready to lead the team.

  16. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

    The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.

    Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...

    My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.
    Which goes back to your original thinking (and now my changed thinking) of packaging Derozan along with Bargnani, for a big man who IS efficient, plays inside, rebounds, and defends, allowing Fields (efficient, plays off-ball, good balance to Rudy and Ross requiring the ball to be effective) to be the shooting guard.

    Problem solved! Except, our cap will still be SHIT!

  17. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    In that same vein, if we could somehow swap Bargs for Boozer in the off season I think we'd have a team that could contend for the division championship. Not a NBA championship, but it'd be fun to watch the next 2 years until all the big contracts are up and JV/Ross/DD should be ready to lead the team.
    I'm all about dumping Bargs, but I'm not interested in Boozer as much. I like Amir starting, he does too many things the other starters don't do, and is a better defensive presence than Boozer. With JV developing, and RG, DD and Lowry all decent scorers (or, at least, should be), I don't think an offensive PF is the best option. I'd take a Carl Landry though. I'd also support a Bargs - Derozan package like RaptorReuben, with a return of a good shooter and a backup center or PG and/or draft pick. I like Derozan, but I think having him and Gay in the lineup is a little redundant like CalgaryRapsFan has pointed out. Furthermore, I think the pair is limiting Lowry's effectiveness, because they don't demand spacing from the defense making it difficult for Lowry to play his offensive game.

  18. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.

    The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.
    Probably the only reason I wouldn't put Howard on this list is his attitude. You could certainly build a team around him, but would you want to? After the shenanigans in Orlando, and all the drama in LA this season with Kobe and what-not, I don't believe Howard is the ideal teammate. He brought Orlando to the finals without another second tier player, so a system developed around Howard, going inside-out with a bunch of shooters can work. I don't know, I'm biased here...i just don't like him lol.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Mar 27th, 2013 at 09:46 AM.

  19. #56
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,355
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It was very refreshing hearing Roberto Luongo talk about why he wasn't traded yesterday, claiming, "my contract sucks".

    I wonder if Gay would ever admit that
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. Like ReubenJRD liked this post
  21. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,384
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Some buy gay so ball handling skilks

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    4,180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    Some buy gay so ball handling skilks
    Raptor fans will never be satisfied.

  23. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    Some buy gay so ball handling skilks
    what?

  24. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    what?
    Time to bring back an old favorite?


  25. Like Nilanka liked this post
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •