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Thread: With The Current Club, What Are We Missing?

  1. #21
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    PF is a glaring hole.

    Amir shows flashes of brilliance but he is way too inconsistent to be relied on as a starter.

    A low post threat and another glass cleaner.

    Putting Amir off the bench also helps with the concern from other posts about bench productivity.
    Sums it up right there. Although, I certainly think a bench scorer would go a long way.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    Assuming we can move Bargnani or even DeMar, I'd like to go after one of those Utah bigs which are both free agents this summer. (aka Jefferson or Millsap) Both guys are exactly what we need. A consistent inside presense. Something we haven't had since ..... ummmm ...... ever.
    +1.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    A low post threat is the most pressing concern offensively. JV may get there but it will be a year or three before he's good enough to get there consistently. I don't think the offense is our problem though, we are actually ranked reasonably high in offensive efficiency.

    I think our biggest weakness are that:

    a. We suck at rebounding, which is arguably the biggest sign of a winning team. We are currently bottom ten in every rebounding % metric and 29th in rbs per game. Our best rebounder, Amir, is 47th in rbs per game and we have no one in the top 50 for rebounds per 36.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2013.html

    b. We are an awful defensive team. I don't know what happened to last years defensive tenacity but this year we've been terrible. This is mainly a coaching issue, our hedges are not as hard as they used to be and we aren't recovering fast enough. Giving up offensive rebounds and turnovers kills us. The fact we are always undersized doesn't help either.

    Basically we need to upgrade at both big spots and get our focus back defensively. Amir is very much improved this season and if we were very strong at center would be a very good hustle guy in with our starters. Maybe Val will get there and be the elite rebounder and post player that we need (think Noah or this years Varejao), but until he does we are going to have a lot of trouble with defense and rebounding.
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  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    I think the 2 things we need the most is a starting PF who can ALSO play C. That way we wouldn't need to sign another center who needs minutes.

    I know I should not say this but I think we should try to bring back Calderon.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    Assuming we can move Bargnani or even DeMar, I'd like to go after one of those Utah bigs which are both free agents this summer. (aka Jefferson or Millsap) Both guys are exactly what we need. A consistent inside presense. Something we haven't had since ..... ummmm ...... ever.
    Since Oakley?

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    I think the 2 things we need the most is a starting PF who can ALSO play C. That way we wouldn't need to sign another center who needs minutes.

    I know I should not say this but I think we should try to bring back Calderon.

    you are right you shouldn't have said it why start another controversy? There are plenty of solid PGs we can target this off season, who is third string though? Lucas can be moved he has value.

  7. #27
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Since Oakley?
    Perhaps. I found Reggie Evans just as efficient as Oak was during his tenure here in Toronto. I want a scoring low-post threat ontop of a solid defender and consistent rebounder.

    That isn't too much to ask, is it?

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    Perhaps. I found Reggie Evans just as efficient as Oak was during his tenure here in Toronto. I want a scoring low-post threat ontop of a solid defender and consistent rebounder.

    That isn't too much to ask, is it?
    Ed Davis if Memphis drops him? lol he doesnt have to resign with them, but I agree id want a more mature big man down low beside JV. The team is really missing that guy to keep defenders focused on more than just the perimeter, 2nd would be solid back up point BC has his work cut out for him this summer. Seriously playoffs is a must next season.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I still think that low-post threat is being given way too much attention. JV is going to be scoring on the inside more and more as he improves. Amir also does most of his damage rolling to the basket and with little drop shots and hooks. I think if any PF is going to be a long-term acquisition...say a 3-4 year deal, then it's way more important that such a PF actually can hit jumpers consistently, as a pick-n-pop threat. I would be fine with Millsap, who's an all-around threat to score, or Ilyasova as kind of the stretch 4 version of Amir....My fallback player to go after with the MLE is Carl Landry.

    I think signing a guy like Jefferson will just lead to having to trade him within a couple of years as he's too slow to play a lot of PF (mostly plays C for Utah), not long or very good defensively, and will make it harder to find JV post touches as he grows. I am somewhat ok with Gasol because it would only be a one year rental. I am also somewhat ok with Boozer as at least there is no positional overlap with JV, so at least he won't take his minutes even if he takes some touches.

    The other thing we are missing is Landry Fields' jump shot....every time I see AA out there monopolizing the offense like he's Michael Jordan, I can't help but think how badly we need an actual glue guy out on the floor. I'd also hope that any new backup PG is a better glue guy than Lucas. I think with Casey this year he's shown that he really overvalues shooting...that's why guys like Andrea, AA and Lucas see so much time. He seems more worried that other guys will miss looks those guys make (as if those guys don't go ice cold for long stretches), rather than realizing how a guy like Fields will look for higher % plays, be it for him or another player. *not suggesting Fields should necessarily be getting big minutes, but rather if his jumper wasn't so broken, I can't imagine why AA would ever see the floor over him
    Totally agree. We don't need the ball to stop down low. It doesn't play to our strengths. Even if it commands a double team we don't possess the perimeter shooting to take advantage of it. We'll be chucking jumpers even more which is not what we need. Besides, how many legitimate low-post threats are there out there, and how exactly are we going to get one?
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

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  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    We need a low post threat because in this stage of development JV just isnt there yet hes going to be a beast someday you can see it but hes still I think 3 seasons away from being a legitimate give him the ball and score 2 for us down low kinda guy.

    3 bigs rotation JV, (Unknown Vet PF) or Ed Davis & Amir Johnson Acy and Gray playing filler time.. I can live with that.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    JV is not 3 seasons away from running plays for him in the post. Next season I think he'll already have a couple of moves down well enough for that.* He's also going to score on the glass and on the rolls/cuts he makes. If the PF we get is also a shooting threat, like Millsap (pipe dream though, IMO), then it's fine, because he can score from anywhere. But I don't want a guy who is basically only effective in the low-post, especially since most of those guys only fit as Cs these days.Having a PF who is more solid from the perimeter would still help the Raps post game, whether it's JV (or whatever big) or Gay/Demar down in the post. Floor spacing (with proper shot selection) is desperately lacking from this team, because there are too many poor shooters mixed in with ball stoppers.

    The other thing people really have to remember, is that post-up threats don't have to be big, low post players. Miami uses LeBron in the mid-post. NY uses Melo. OKC uses Durant. LA uses Kobe. MIA even uses Wade as well in the post...The Raps will have a size advantage almost every night at both wing positions. Demar is already becoming a pretty good post scorer. And Rudy needs to get better at seeing the doubles, but is also good at initiating offense from the post. There again, having a good shooter would be hugely beneficial.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat

    *The fundamentals of JV's moves are really solid...this includes the fact that I don't think I've seen a Raptor actually know how to establish post position like he does (but never gets the ball) since Kevin Willis was here.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 2nd, 2013 at 01:30 PM.

  12. #32
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    The team as constituted now should make the play-offs. The reason it probably won't make the play-offs this year is because it was not as it is now at the beginning of the year. However to be a significant play-off team, it requires:

    a) A SOLID pass-first back up PG. Preferably very experienced so he can mentor and guide Lowry. Eg. Jason Kidd.
    b) A starting PF who specialises in rebounding. Preferably Millsap.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    The team as constituted now should make the play-offs. The reason it probably won't make the play-offs this year is because it was not as it is now at the beginning of the year. However to be a significant play-off team, it requires:

    a) A SOLID pass-first back up PG. Preferably very experienced so he can mentor and guide Lowry. Eg. Jason Kidd.
    b) A starting PF who specialises in rebounding. Preferably Millsap.
    This part I couldn't agree with more, whatever offensive skills the PF brings, he must be a good rebounder. BC cannot go shopping solely for one side of the court. That's why Ilyasova is fine with me if he can find a way to acquire him as a stretch 4 (9 rebounds per 36). That's also why I hope worst case is if he can't swing a trade, he uses the MLE on Carl Landry, who I think will opt out of a $4 million dollar option (9.4 rebounds per 36).
    Granted both those guys mean finding another C or C/F who can be more mobile than Gray to back up JV. Though I like Gray and Acy as 3rd bigs at each position.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    We need better rebounding and more depth at the bigs position. We need to then unload (addition by subtraction) AA and Bargnani (hopefully for some pieces back). The 2nd biggest need is a past first point guard off the bench.

    Lowry/ Ridnour (a man can dream)
    Derozan/ Ross
    Gay/ Fields
    Amir/ Illyasova;Milsap;Landry
    JV

    Now those two needs can be filled by trade (Bargnani and anderson for Ridnour and a bad contract) and the MLE (Carl landry).

    Bargnani's man on man defense by the way is his biggest asset now a days.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Very early thread, but going into the off-season, and all the Rudy Gay energy has done down, what is necessary for this team to be in the playoffs next season, and what are they missing that is holding them back from getting into this year's playoffs?

    - Bench production? Some type of bench player that can come in, and bring some energy, and offensive presence, who can create shots on their own like a Jamal Crawford, or a J.R Smith.
    - Low Post scoring?
    - Veterans?
    - Experience?
    - New coach?
    - Perimeter shooting?
    - More young players?
    - Low post scoring/PF
    - Veteran players/leadership
    - New coach
    - Perimeter shooting
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  16. #36
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    To be successful in the playoffs, you need a BIG or SOMEONE who can attract double teams in the low post. The game slows down in the post-season. You need to space the floor, and that comes with an inside post presence (JV is not there yet) to make defenses adjust to guard the inside, and perimeter shooters so they don't load up on the low block.

    You might say "hey, look at OKC, Miami. They were in the finals last year, neither have low post players!"

    Wrong. LeBron and Wade play a significant amount in the low post, and believe it or not, Durant and Westbrook spend time in the low block creating from there.

    Unless Casey starts drawing up a system/set which allows Derozan and Gay to sit in that low block and create shots for themselves/others from there, we need a big, especially because behind JV and Amir, who comes in and provides what goes off? Bargnani? Pft, yeah right. Rebounding, low post scoring, and a shot-blocker/help/post defender is what we really need right now. Perimeter shooters follow, a back-up point guard would be nice - please not Calderon, he clearly sees himself as a starter - and some type of bench scorer.

  17. #37
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    I thought Andrea might have been able to be that bench player but I seem to have been wrong. Not sure if he can get out of his funk in Toronto, or whether the damage here is too deep. It's unfortunate, because even if he had moderately progressed as a player given his rookie season, he'd be a fine bench asset.

    I don't know enough to evaluate Acy, but it seems like he's not quite ready to provide consistent rebounding/defense off the bench. If you look right now, the only real bigs the Raptors have off the bench are Gray and Acy, which is a problem. Have to address that.

    One of Anderson and Ross need to either step up and be consistent scorers, or one of them has to be booted out because right now neither provide any sort of consistency. Not sure what the plan is next year, but Ross is in danger of being buried on this team if he doesn't, at the very least, bring some consistent outside shooting.

    Other than that, you hope DeRozan, Valanciunas, and even Gay progress and improve, because we ain't got the room to make any great moves on the market.

  18. #38
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    I thought Andrea might have been able to be that bench player but I seem to have been wrong. Not sure if he can get out of his funk in Toronto, or whether the damage here is too deep. It's unfortunate, because even if he had moderately progressed as a player given his rookie season, he'd be a fine bench asset.

    I don't know enough to evaluate Acy, but it seems like he's not quite ready to provide consistent rebounding/defense off the bench. If you look right now, the only real bigs the Raptors have off the bench are Gray and Acy, which is a problem. Have to address that.

    One of Anderson and Ross need to either step up and be consistent scorers, or one of them has to be booted out because right now neither provide any sort of consistency. Not sure what the plan is next year, but Ross is in danger of being buried on this team if he doesn't, at the very least, bring some consistent outside shooting.

    Other than that, you hope DeRozan, Valanciunas, and even Gay progress and improve, because we ain't got the room to make any great moves on the market.
    Agreed with the bolded. Although, I think Toronto can use guys like Ross, Anderson, Bargnani along with any sort of picks available as trade assets. Ross is a player I think can help. Young, good potential, rookie contract. People will take that, especially teams looking to take in sh*t/bad contracts (Bargnani fits in both) for prospects and picks.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    To be successful in the playoffs, you need a BIG or SOMEONE who can attract double teams in the low post. The game slows down in the post-season. You need to space the floor, and that comes with an inside post presence (JV is not there yet) to make defenses adjust to guard the inside, and perimeter shooters so they don't load up on the low block.

    You might say "hey, look at OKC, Miami. They were in the finals last year, neither have low post players!"

    Wrong. LeBron and Wade play a significant amount in the low post, and believe it or not, Durant and Westbrook spend time in the low block creating from there.

    Unless Casey starts drawing up a system/set which allows Derozan and Gay to sit in that low block and create shots for themselves/others from there, we need a big, especially because behind JV and Amir, who comes in and provides what goes off? Bargnani? Pft, yeah right. Rebounding, low post scoring, and a shot-blocker/help/post defender is what we really need right now. Perimeter shooters follow, a back-up point guard would be nice - please not Calderon, he clearly sees himself as a starter - and some type of bench scorer.
    I did say that OKC and Miami are successful using other players in the post. And I also said that is what Casey should do. Both Demar and Gay do well in the post on their one on one matchups (neither are great penetrating from the 3 pt line), but too often the D can just clog the paint because we lack consistent outside shooters. Signing a low-post player to a costly long-term deal seems unrealistic, financially unwise, and potentially harmful to JV's development(not to mention what it might cost since the Raps can only acquire FAs via sign-and-trade). The only low-post oriented players, who cannot stretch out to long range, and who are realistic, or possibly so, are Boozer and Gasol. Committing any more than 1 or 2 years just seems like a bad idea to me. Again, Millsap could work no matter what as he scores pretty well from different areas, but that seems extremely unrealistic as the Raps don't have the best assets to trade (without potentially gutting a team with little flexibility)...I think other than what Bargs returns in a trade, other assets need to be kept in case something else needs to be addressed, such as if Lowry's not the answer at PG, so trying to turn him(in a package) into a better PG.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Agree with a lot of what people are saying, one thing I would add though is we've got to many ISO drivers, and not enough ball movement. Getting shooters will help space the floor, but so will getting someone on the starting unit who can move the ball.

    Unless you can somehow get Pau from the lakers in a bargs trade (yeah right!) I think you've got to move demar.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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