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  • #31
    JV is not 3 seasons away from running plays for him in the post. Next season I think he'll already have a couple of moves down well enough for that.* He's also going to score on the glass and on the rolls/cuts he makes. If the PF we get is also a shooting threat, like Millsap (pipe dream though, IMO), then it's fine, because he can score from anywhere. But I don't want a guy who is basically only effective in the low-post, especially since most of those guys only fit as Cs these days.Having a PF who is more solid from the perimeter would still help the Raps post game, whether it's JV (or whatever big) or Gay/Demar down in the post. Floor spacing (with proper shot selection) is desperately lacking from this team, because there are too many poor shooters mixed in with ball stoppers.

    The other thing people really have to remember, is that post-up threats don't have to be big, low post players. Miami uses LeBron in the mid-post. NY uses Melo. OKC uses Durant. LA uses Kobe. MIA even uses Wade as well in the post...The Raps will have a size advantage almost every night at both wing positions. Demar is already becoming a pretty good post scorer. And Rudy needs to get better at seeing the doubles, but is also good at initiating offense from the post. There again, having a good shooter would be hugely beneficial.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat

    *The fundamentals of JV's moves are really solid...this includes the fact that I don't think I've seen a Raptor actually know how to establish post position like he does (but never gets the ball) since Kevin Willis was here.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 2, 2013, 02:30 PM.

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    • #32
      The team as constituted now should make the play-offs. The reason it probably won't make the play-offs this year is because it was not as it is now at the beginning of the year. However to be a significant play-off team, it requires:

      a) A SOLID pass-first back up PG. Preferably very experienced so he can mentor and guide Lowry. Eg. Jason Kidd.
      b) A starting PF who specialises in rebounding. Preferably Millsap.
      Attitude Is A Choice.

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      • #33
        Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
        The team as constituted now should make the play-offs. The reason it probably won't make the play-offs this year is because it was not as it is now at the beginning of the year. However to be a significant play-off team, it requires:

        a) A SOLID pass-first back up PG. Preferably very experienced so he can mentor and guide Lowry. Eg. Jason Kidd.
        b) A starting PF who specialises in rebounding. Preferably Millsap.
        This part I couldn't agree with more, whatever offensive skills the PF brings, he must be a good rebounder. BC cannot go shopping solely for one side of the court. That's why Ilyasova is fine with me if he can find a way to acquire him as a stretch 4 (9 rebounds per 36). That's also why I hope worst case is if he can't swing a trade, he uses the MLE on Carl Landry, who I think will opt out of a $4 million dollar option (9.4 rebounds per 36).
        Granted both those guys mean finding another C or C/F who can be more mobile than Gray to back up JV. Though I like Gray and Acy as 3rd bigs at each position.

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        • #34
          We need better rebounding and more depth at the bigs position. We need to then unload (addition by subtraction) AA and Bargnani (hopefully for some pieces back). The 2nd biggest need is a past first point guard off the bench.

          Lowry/ Ridnour (a man can dream)
          Derozan/ Ross
          Gay/ Fields
          Amir/ Illyasova;Milsap;Landry
          JV

          Now those two needs can be filled by trade (Bargnani and anderson for Ridnour and a bad contract) and the MLE (Carl landry).

          Bargnani's man on man defense by the way is his biggest asset now a days.
          The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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          • #35
            RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
            Very early thread, but going into the off-season, and all the Rudy Gay energy has done down, what is necessary for this team to be in the playoffs next season, and what are they missing that is holding them back from getting into this year's playoffs?

            - Bench production? Some type of bench player that can come in, and bring some energy, and offensive presence, who can create shots on their own like a Jamal Crawford, or a J.R Smith.
            - Low Post scoring?
            - Veterans?
            - Experience?
            - New coach?
            - Perimeter shooting?
            - More young players?
            - Low post scoring/PF
            - Veteran players/leadership
            - New coach
            - Perimeter shooting
            Mamba Mentality

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            • #36
              To be successful in the playoffs, you need a BIG or SOMEONE who can attract double teams in the low post. The game slows down in the post-season. You need to space the floor, and that comes with an inside post presence (JV is not there yet) to make defenses adjust to guard the inside, and perimeter shooters so they don't load up on the low block.

              You might say "hey, look at OKC, Miami. They were in the finals last year, neither have low post players!"

              Wrong. LeBron and Wade play a significant amount in the low post, and believe it or not, Durant and Westbrook spend time in the low block creating from there.

              Unless Casey starts drawing up a system/set which allows Derozan and Gay to sit in that low block and create shots for themselves/others from there, we need a big, especially because behind JV and Amir, who comes in and provides what goes off? Bargnani? Pft, yeah right. Rebounding, low post scoring, and a shot-blocker/help/post defender is what we really need right now. Perimeter shooters follow, a back-up point guard would be nice - please not Calderon, he clearly sees himself as a starter - and some type of bench scorer.
              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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              • #37
                I thought Andrea might have been able to be that bench player but I seem to have been wrong. Not sure if he can get out of his funk in Toronto, or whether the damage here is too deep. It's unfortunate, because even if he had moderately progressed as a player given his rookie season, he'd be a fine bench asset.

                I don't know enough to evaluate Acy, but it seems like he's not quite ready to provide consistent rebounding/defense off the bench. If you look right now, the only real bigs the Raptors have off the bench are Gray and Acy, which is a problem. Have to address that.

                One of Anderson and Ross need to either step up and be consistent scorers, or one of them has to be booted out because right now neither provide any sort of consistency. Not sure what the plan is next year, but Ross is in danger of being buried on this team if he doesn't, at the very least, bring some consistent outside shooting.

                Other than that, you hope DeRozan, Valanciunas, and even Gay progress and improve, because we ain't got the room to make any great moves on the market.

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                • #38
                  Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                  I thought Andrea might have been able to be that bench player but I seem to have been wrong. Not sure if he can get out of his funk in Toronto, or whether the damage here is too deep. It's unfortunate, because even if he had moderately progressed as a player given his rookie season, he'd be a fine bench asset.

                  I don't know enough to evaluate Acy, but it seems like he's not quite ready to provide consistent rebounding/defense off the bench. If you look right now, the only real bigs the Raptors have off the bench are Gray and Acy, which is a problem. Have to address that.

                  One of Anderson and Ross need to either step up and be consistent scorers, or one of them has to be booted out because right now neither provide any sort of consistency. Not sure what the plan is next year, but Ross is in danger of being buried on this team if he doesn't, at the very least, bring some consistent outside shooting.

                  Other than that, you hope DeRozan, Valanciunas, and even Gay progress and improve, because we ain't got the room to make any great moves on the market.
                  Agreed with the bolded. Although, I think Toronto can use guys like Ross, Anderson, Bargnani along with any sort of picks available as trade assets. Ross is a player I think can help. Young, good potential, rookie contract. People will take that, especially teams looking to take in sh*t/bad contracts (Bargnani fits in both) for prospects and picks.
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                    To be successful in the playoffs, you need a BIG or SOMEONE who can attract double teams in the low post. The game slows down in the post-season. You need to space the floor, and that comes with an inside post presence (JV is not there yet) to make defenses adjust to guard the inside, and perimeter shooters so they don't load up on the low block.

                    You might say "hey, look at OKC, Miami. They were in the finals last year, neither have low post players!"

                    Wrong. LeBron and Wade play a significant amount in the low post, and believe it or not, Durant and Westbrook spend time in the low block creating from there.

                    Unless Casey starts drawing up a system/set which allows Derozan and Gay to sit in that low block and create shots for themselves/others from there, we need a big, especially because behind JV and Amir, who comes in and provides what goes off? Bargnani? Pft, yeah right. Rebounding, low post scoring, and a shot-blocker/help/post defender is what we really need right now. Perimeter shooters follow, a back-up point guard would be nice - please not Calderon, he clearly sees himself as a starter - and some type of bench scorer.
                    I did say that OKC and Miami are successful using other players in the post. And I also said that is what Casey should do. Both Demar and Gay do well in the post on their one on one matchups (neither are great penetrating from the 3 pt line), but too often the D can just clog the paint because we lack consistent outside shooters. Signing a low-post player to a costly long-term deal seems unrealistic, financially unwise, and potentially harmful to JV's development(not to mention what it might cost since the Raps can only acquire FAs via sign-and-trade). The only low-post oriented players, who cannot stretch out to long range, and who are realistic, or possibly so, are Boozer and Gasol. Committing any more than 1 or 2 years just seems like a bad idea to me. Again, Millsap could work no matter what as he scores pretty well from different areas, but that seems extremely unrealistic as the Raps don't have the best assets to trade (without potentially gutting a team with little flexibility)...I think other than what Bargs returns in a trade, other assets need to be kept in case something else needs to be addressed, such as if Lowry's not the answer at PG, so trying to turn him(in a package) into a better PG.

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                    • #40
                      Agree with a lot of what people are saying, one thing I would add though is we've got to many ISO drivers, and not enough ball movement. Getting shooters will help space the floor, but so will getting someone on the starting unit who can move the ball.

                      Unless you can somehow get Pau from the lakers in a bargs trade (yeah right!) I think you've got to move demar.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #41
                        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        I did say that OKC and Miami are successful using other players in the post. And I also said that is what Casey should do. Both Demar and Gay do well in the post on their one on one matchups (neither are great penetrating from the 3 pt line), but too often the D can just clog the paint because we lack consistent outside shooters. Signing a low-post player to a costly long-term deal seems unrealistic, financially unwise, and potentially harmful to JV's development(not to mention what it might cost since the Raps can only acquire FAs via sign-and-trade). The only low-post oriented players, who cannot stretch out to long range, and who are realistic, or possibly so, are Boozer and Gasol. Committing any more than 1 or 2 years just seems like a bad idea to me. Again, Millsap could work no matter what as he scores pretty well from different areas, but that seems extremely unrealistic as the Raps don't have the best assets to trade (without potentially gutting a team with little flexibility)...I think other than what Bargs returns in a trade, other assets need to be kept in case something else needs to be addressed, such as if Lowry's not the answer at PG, so trying to turn him(in a package) into a better PG.
                        Only way it harms JV's development is if the low post is a centre. Having the ability to let JV play off of the low post guy, can give better offensive rebounding, and allows him to learn/play with a guy who attracts inside attention. If anything, this should help JV's development.

                        Money wise, we are almost done in terms of creating a core for the future/contending. Using guys like Bargnani/Ross + picks to acquire these players, and using MLE to bring in those specialists/veterans is important. At some point, you're going to need to use the flexibility, there's a reason why you keep cap room, and that's to improve for the future. Contracts eventually come off the books, and eventually the team will be back on the side of trying to get as much cap space as possible. This is the time we start to use the flexibility (or any of it left), and start thinking about winning. Look at Houston, team that had A LOT of cap space, and took the opportunity to trade for Harden, and signed him to a max deal.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                        • #42
                          Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                          I thought Andrea might have been able to be that bench player but I seem to have been wrong. Not sure if he can get out of his funk in Toronto, or whether the damage here is too deep. It's unfortunate, because even if he had moderately progressed as a player given his rookie season, he'd be a fine bench asset.
                          I still think that Andrea can make a very good bench player. Hopefully in Toronto but most probably somewhere else. The main thing is that he needs to accept it wholeheartedly. One must not forget that he is going through a TERRIBLE time right now. Can there be a bigger understatement? From beginning the season with people predicting that he not only would be 'the' player for Toronto but some even suggesting that he would be the years most improved player possibly making the all-star team, he has gone to coming off the bench(not even option one) and being booed. If this cannot affect a persons self confidence, what can?

                          Knowing his potential, I think he'll make a very good bench player who can play 4 positions.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • #43
                            New Coach: Stan Van Gundy, Avery Johnson or Nate McMillan
                            Starting PF: Al Jeff, Millsap or Josh Smith
                            Backup SF: Anyone but Fields
                            Backup Veteran C: Anyone but Gray
                            Backup PG: Anyone but Lucas III or Telfair

                            If we can address these five glaring holes, we could make a push for the playoff next year. This year, I don't see the Raps making it.

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                            • #44
                              tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                              New Coach: Stan Van Gundy, Avery Johnson or Nate McMillan
                              Starting PF: Al Jeff, Millsap or Josh Smith
                              Backup SF: Anyone but Fields
                              Backup Veteran C: Anyone but Gray
                              Backup PG: Anyone but Lucas III or Telfair

                              If we can address these five glaring holes, we could make a push for the playoff next year. This year, I don't see the Raps making it.
                              Wow. Good post, for the first time, TenForTheWin.
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                              • #45
                                RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                                Only way it harms JV's development is if the low post is a centre. Having the ability to let JV play off of the low post guy, can give better offensive rebounding, and allows him to learn/play with a guy who attracts inside attention. If anything, this should help JV's development.
                                Other than Boozer....who isn't a C and is a low-post threat? Millsap plays a lot of face up basketball. Josh Smith is more of an all over the floor uber-utility player (a bigger Shawn Marion with a less awkward shot). He's not a go-to post scorer (they primarily use Horford in that role), and can be prone to falling in love with his jumper. I would take Millsap, because he can post up a bit and face up, so it gives a lot of versatility...but I just don't see him somehow being acquired. Jefferson plays mostly at C....I don't know...honestly, I'm just asking, what options are there? Even Gasol, seems like playing him too much at PF wouldn't be the best idea, but for only a year, would be totally ok with that acquisition. The cost of he or Millsap, given Utah probably won't want Bargs (if they do, then great), could be very high. I, for one, am not willing to flip Demar for Millsap...Demar is still improving at a very weak position in the NBA. Millsap is probably the player he will be and has never made an all-star appearance, and plays maybe the strongest position in the NBA. And giving up Demar for a one-year rental like Gasol is a non-starter IMO. Same thing for Ross...he could end up being the 6th man this team needs, and he's on a rookie contract, obviously other teams will be after him, and trying to get him thrown in if there are Bargs talks involved. If a team is willing to take Bargs just to get Ross, this should be a signal that Ross is way too valuable to be let go.

                                -Seriously, I'm not trying to sound aggressive, I just can't think of realistic PF options who are actually what you'd call a guy you can just dump the ball into regularly. I keep coming back to Boozer. I don't see the Raps having a shot at any of the FAs available this year. As consolation prizes, maybe they could get a Carl Landry or Elton Brand (though I think he'll stay in Dallas if they'll have him).

                                -So in order of preference and at least some amount of realism, I'd go Boozer, then switch to a stretch PF like Ilyasova (maybe if we take back Gooden's contract the Bucks might consider Bargs? Please? God?), and then focus on value FAs like Landry and Brand, maybe Earl Clark, and some other 4th big options like B. Wright, Turiaf, etc... The Raptors really will not have many options to upgrade talent at the big positions without significantly weakening other spots. I think the only hope that they might have at guys like Gasol or Millsap will depend on the market this offseason...there are several big name PFs and Cs, so LA and Utah may not get trade (or s&t) offers they like.

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