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Thread: If BC was fired, would another team hire him?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Woah there. Grunwald was horrible? Made his mistakes in Bradley/Radojevic, but stole Vince Carter, made the right moves in Davis, Alvin Williams, Oakley/Camby, and is the only GM to win a playoff round. He got the short end of the stick IMO.
    +1. I would take Grunwald back in a second. Good basketball mind, less BS.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

  2. #22
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    I get that a lot of people feel this way but I'm curious as to why. What makes him a high-profile GM? What has he accomplished? He's been able to bring in some decent talent but has had very little success. Maybe I should rephrase. If you were the owner of a team, would you hire him? I find he's built a reputation as a great GM but that's mostly through his own salesmanship of himself. The true mark of a good salesman. One that leaves you happy with the initial product sold to you but cursing his name down the road when it doesn't live up to expectations. I.e. Turk, Bargs, Kapono, Ford, O'Neal, possibly Gay/Lowry.

    I will give him credit for realizing when one of those deals didn't work and getting good value in return. Bargs excluded of course...
    He's had some good creation of talent when he was in Phoenix. He really started all of it for them when he was the GM. Not too sure, but going by what I've read in the past.

  3. #23
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Woah there. Grunwald was horrible? Made his mistakes in Bradley/Radojevic, but stole Vince Carter, made the right moves in Davis, Alvin Williams, Oakley/Camby, and is the only GM to win a playoff round. He got the short end of the stick IMO.
    Was the man who drafted Bosh as well. I wouldn't say he was horrible but at the same time I don't consider him an terrific GM either. He was OK.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Woah there. Grunwald was horrible? Made his mistakes in Bradley/Radojevic, but stole Vince Carter, made the right moves in Davis, Alvin Williams, Oakley/Camby, and is the only GM to win a playoff round. He got the short end of the stick IMO.
    Totally agree. Sadly, he's the best GM this franchise has ever had. Drafting the team's all-time 2 best players (Carter and Bosh) is all the evidence I need.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Totally agree. Sadly, he's the best GM this franchise has ever had. Drafting the team's all-time 2 best players (Carter and Bosh) is all the evidence I need.
    Grunwald's error that ultimately cost him his job was the summer of 2001. He miscalculated that the roster was good enough to be a contender. That offseason sunk that iteration of the Raptors cause there was no way to get better once those moves were made. Injuries and Carter's slide did the rest.

    Otherwise, he was a solid GM. Even his biggest mistake(s) was generally lauded at the time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Drafting the team's all-time 2 best players (Carter and Bosh) is all the evidence I need.
    With good picks in good drafts. Not to take away any credit from him.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  7. #27
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    Wasn't Calderon a Grunwald guy too?

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Wasn't Calderon a Grunwald guy too?
    Calderon was Babcock....surprisingly.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Calderon was Babcock....surprisingly.
    you know when you get on a subway car... and its pretty empty... but as soon as pull into the next station there's literally shoulder to shoulder people waiting to get on and you immediately think "oh f$%#... some fat smelly dude is going to crush into the seat next to me because that's what ALWAYS happens"...

    and instead, a hot chick with a shirt low enough you can see clear down to her underwear between her cleavage sits next to you.. and somehow against all odds, you've managed to win at crowded subway seat roulette

    Calderon was Babcock's hot chick

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  11. #30
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    you know when you get on a subway car... and its pretty empty... but as soon as pull into the next station there's literally shoulder to shoulder people waiting to get on and you immediately think "oh f$%#... some fat smelly dude is going to crush into the seat next to me because that's what ALWAYS happens"...

    and instead, a hot chick with a shirt low enough you can see clear down to her underwear between her cleavage sits next to you.. and somehow against all odds, you've managed to win at crowded subway seat roulette

    Calderon was Babcock's hot chick
    HAHAHAHA. Oh man I'm dead. +1 sir. +1.

  12. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Grunwald? I recently read where he said that he thought he had built a championship calibre team in the Knicks. Really?

    Colangelo speaks corporate schtick and is more likely to be hired by a company owned team. He seems to keep them informed/in the loop and makes MLSE money so whats not to like from their viewpoint. I think he sticks around....the ok on the Gay transaction kind of telegraphed it. The question still remains: Who is better to replace him with? The stable at the Spurs seems to be empty.

  13. #32
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    He would be out of job for like 5 minutes. The Nets were pushing heavily for him as well.
    @RavNation

  14. #33
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    Quote YYZ wrote: View Post
    He would be out of job for like 5 minutes. The Nets were pushing heavily for him as well.
    News flash: Colangelo lost his GM mojo about 7 years ago.

  15. #34
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    News flash: Colangelo lost his GM mojo about 7 years ago.
    Cool and you base this on what?

    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas...10946-qmi.html

    That's from 2 years ago.
    @RavNation

  16. #35
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    Quote YYZ wrote: View Post
    Cool and you base this on what?

    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas...10946-qmi.html

    That's from 2 years ago.
    Wins and losses. Not enough wins and too many losses.

  17. #36
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Wins and losses. Not enough wins and too many losses.
    A GM can't coach a team or motivate a team. He can provide the pieces, and I think given the circumstances since his arrival he has always given the Raptors a decent chance.
    @RavNation

  18. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Yeah, probably. He's got his flaws, obviously, but he's competent. In my view, his crippling problem here has been an inability to hire a good coach.

  19. #38
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Yeah, probably. He's got his flaws, obviously, but he's competent. In my view, his crippling problem here has been an inability to hire a good coach.
    Yup, and to be fair he gives out some bad contracts.
    @RavNation

  20. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Grunwald's error that ultimately cost him his job was the summer of 2001. He miscalculated that the roster was good enough to be a contender. That offseason sunk that iteration of the Raptors cause there was no way to get better once those moves were made. Injuries and Carter's slide did the rest.

    Otherwise, he was a solid GM. Even his biggest mistake(s) was generally lauded at the time.
    Another huge mistake, the biggest IMO, was coddling Vince by getting rid of Oakley. Oakley was the only guy who would challenge Vince, and he wouldn't let him dog it; not coincidentally, Vince played the best ball of his career when Oak was around. But Vince couldn't handle being called out (for being a Mama's boy, the story goes) and Grunwald caved. And I think that at that moment Vince knew that he could get/do whatever he wanted in this city - and then everything went to s***.

    In Grunwald's defence, maybe no one could have forseen what was going to happen with Vince. But when your main guy asks you to get rid of a player who was one of the toughest, most respected guys in the league, that should raise a couple of red flags.

    (Now I'm thinking about Oakley. Remember those behind the back passes? Remember him beating up random players for gambling debts? Man that guy was the best.)

  21. #40
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    BC's terrible. In the history of the NBA, I wonder how many GMs have kept their job after 5 years in a row of not making the playoffs?

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