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  • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    I said Paul George was an "outlier". But he had also shown (in the playoffs) to go toe to toe with LeBron, so his contract is not without reason. DD had not shown any ability to be an upper echelon SG at that point in his career.

    Win Shares are a GREAT way to determine a player's dollar value. If you don't want to dig around and read and learn, you can always watch MoneyBall and get some of the basics...

    "watch the effin game" - this is really rude and has no point, since I can say the same to you. I have a much different view on how to evaluate talent in this league than you do. While you resort to the brainwashing of Matt and Jack, I actually have some knowledge about the finer points of the game. I read, I study, I watch, I play and I know I am not perfect and make occasional mistakes (even though I am not wrong here)
    hahahaha

    Yes, Jack and Leo.

    Well that and I played in college, have shared the court with many euor players and have been dunked upon twice by a guy wearing an NBA championship ring, have been playing or watching ball since I was 14....so there's that. Come on brotherman, don't be so cold!!!!

    Look, sorry I offended you, I'm not trying too, I'm smiling when I say the stuff I say.... but fuck, Moneyball worked once or twice, now those pro teams are watching from the sidelines more often than not. The thing that your ws stat doesnt take into account is...oh...EVERYTHING not recorded. Who a player plays with, what chemistry players have, a teams system, a players abiulity to make it happen at specific times.... I'm sorry, but elements of the humanity of sport might be caught in the measurement, but you simply cannot put all your cards in measurements.

    Paul George is bigger than Derozan, he's your teams 3 guard. He also makes DOUBLE what Derozan makes. Using this guy as an example, right after talking in another thread about how BC coulda saved 1.5 million on DD's contract by waiting (and subsequesntly alienating the guy, and sending a message to all other NBA players that Toronto is still douchecapitalone of the NBA) is not really a strong case to present man. Use your WS stat to calculate the effect of lowballing your most loyal an dpromising player when you have fuck all else on your roster, and 3-4 past failures with great talent on your franchises History book, opposed ot ZERO successes. I wonder if you could moneyball your way outta that one if it failed.

    Anyhow, I respect what youre saying, its Moneyball vs everything else, and its not new, and there have to merits for both or it wouldnt be such a common debate.

    Comment


    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      OldSkoolCool:

      I tend to agree with you on the topic but that is irrelevant for my point.

      You deserve a big "WELL DONE" for staying on topic and not resorting to condescending or belittling remarks.
      Lemme guess, I deserve an unhappy face for remaining a guy, in a bar, talking shit with my buddies about hoops and shit.

      i'll take it.

      But you must hand in your man card.

      Comment


      • Craig wrote: View Post
        Lemme guess, I deserve an unhappy face for remaining a guy, in a bar, talking shit with my buddies about hoops and shit.

        i'll take it.

        But you must hand in your man card.

        Would you talk this way to strangers in a bar? I ask because we aren't really friends, so general public civility isn't something you should scoff at.

        Which NBA Champ dunked on you?
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

        Comment


        • Mike Smrek. Twice. I was cocky, tried to weak side him by sloughing off my guy...he was going baseline.

          Smrek is large, like huge.

          And yes I would talk like this, what the hell, this isn't atea party, its basketball. Guys need to relax man.... Taking oneself so seriously that you would have your feelings hurt by some sports shit talking is a sure sign that you might be taking it all tooo seriously.

          AND.... just because some guys don't swear, or they dont blatantly insult people, doesn't mean their posts are dripping with arrogance, dismissive tones and outright rudeness. I think if people tried a bit harder to be completely neutral, and fair, really think about what people post, and WHY, they might be less harsh on a guy like me for the way I respond...its rarely as rude, or offensive as you might think, and almost always its in response to something deserving.

          Anyhow, yeah. Is all good.

          Comment


          • I can honestly say I've never heard of him. I had to google him and still can say, never heard of him even though he's Canadian, 7' tall and earned rings with the Lakers.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • Craig wrote: View Post
              Lemme guess, I deserve an unhappy face for remaining a guy, in a bar, talking shit with my buddies about hoops and shit.

              i'll take it.

              But you must hand in your man card.

              Listen, I understand you come from another generation with different ideas of whats acceptable.

              But this generation understands that holding the standard of being a 'man' to the traditional stereotype is counter-progressive to the health of men and society in general. Please don't contribute to the backwards understanding of the ideal 'man' that has repressed countless of humans from living the lives they would otherwise prefer to live.
              The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

              Comment


              • I have no idea how this relates to DeMar
                What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
                The city embraced me, made me feel at home. The only difference [between Compton and Toronto] for me is the cold. -DeMar
                No Where Near the South Side #WeTheNorth

                Comment


                • enlightenment wrote: View Post
                  Listen, I understand you come from another generation with different ideas of whats acceptable.

                  But this generation understands that holding the standard of being a 'man' to the traditional stereotype is counter-progressive to the health of men and society in general. Please don't contribute to the backwards understanding of the ideal 'man' that has repressed countless of humans from living the lives they would otherwise prefer to live.
                  That wasnt very nice.

                  tsk tsk

                  Comment


                  • lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
                    I have no idea how this relates to DeMar
                    Absolutely. So, how about we get back to DeMar, fellas? Matt, Craig, Enlightenment, and Axel. Talk about DeMar, or have this very nice conversation about being a man somewhere else.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                    Comment


                    • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                      Absolutely. So, how about we get back to DeMar, fellas? Matt, Craig, Enlightenment, and Axel. Talk about DeMar, or have this very nice conversation about being a man somewhere else.
                      Have a look at the thread again.

                      I commended OSC for staying on topic which is DeMar.

                      Then Craig decides to question my manhood to which I replied with *drum roll* nothing.
                      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Wed Feb 5, 2014, 05:52 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Here's something to chew on:

                        According to basketball-reference.com...

                        Two years ago, his first under Casey, Demar attempted 25% of his shots at the rim. 73% of his shots were jump shots.
                        Last year, Demar attempted 20% of his shots at the rim. 76% of his shots were jump shots.
                        This year, 13% at the rim and 83% jumpers.

                        In the game thread I jokingly called him Captain Jumpshot, but I wonder now if this isn't going to be an issue come playoff time.

                        Why is this happening? Is the paint too crowded? Is he getting too comfortable on the perimeter?

                        By way of comparison, Harden is 24% at the rim and 70% jumpers this year. Wade is 31% and 63%.

                        Comment


                        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                          Here's something to chew on:

                          According to basketball-reference.com...

                          Two years ago, his first under Casey, Demar attempted 25% of his shots at the rim. 73% of his shots were jump shots.
                          Last year, Demar attempted 20% of his shots at the rim. 76% of his shots were jump shots.
                          This year, 13% at the rim and 83% jumpers.

                          In the game thread I jokingly called him Captain Jumpshot, but I wonder now if this isn't going to be an issue come playoff time.

                          Why is this happening? Is the paint too crowded? Is he getting too comfortable on the perimeter?

                          By way of comparison, Harden is 24% at the rim and 70% jumpers this year. Wade is 31% and 63%.
                          Good find.

                          Honestly, not surprised. Demar has never been one to finish strong through contact, he's historically tried to shy away from contact and get the foul call instead of making the basket despite the harm. It seems logical that he would eventually just shy away from contact all together. Amazingly though, he's been consistent at getting to the line. Perhaps he is getting more calls than he used to enough to off-set his decrease in drives.

                          Random related stat, Demar had 37 'and-1' finishes last season and has a career high of 47 (his 2nd year). Compare to other SGs last year, Wade had 48 (in 69 games and 31 yrs old), Harden had 69 (78 GP), Pierce had 33 (77 GP), Henderson 24 (68 GP), Turner 13 (82 GP). So he isn't in the elite, but is likely the top of a second tier (this isn't a sortable stat, so I literally picked SG one by one to find their stats).
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                          Comment


                          • Axel wrote: View Post
                            Good find.

                            Honestly, not surprised. Demar has never been one to finish strong through contact, he's historically tried to shy away from contact and get the foul call instead of making the basket despite the harm. It seems logical that he would eventually just shy away from contact all together. Amazingly though, he's been consistent at getting to the line. Perhaps he is getting more calls than he used to enough to off-set his decrease in drives.

                            Random related stat, Demar had 37 'and-1' finishes last season and has a career high of 47 (his 2nd year). Compare to other SGs last year, Wade had 48 (in 69 games and 31 yrs old), Harden had 69 (78 GP), Pierce had 33 (77 GP), Henderson 24 (68 GP), Turner 13 (82 GP). So he isn't in the elite, but is likely the top of a second tier (this isn't a sortable stat, so I literally picked SG one by one to find their stats).
                            Maybe he is selective and does well at picking his spots to get to the rim?

                            Comment


                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Maybe he is selective and does well at picking his spots to get to the rim?
                              Perhaps. Honestly have no idea, but it is an odd correlation.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                                Here's something to chew on:

                                According to basketball-reference.com...

                                Two years ago, his first under Casey, Demar attempted 25% of his shots at the rim. 73% of his shots were jump shots.
                                Last year, Demar attempted 20% of his shots at the rim. 76% of his shots were jump shots.
                                This year, 13% at the rim and 83% jumpers.

                                In the game thread I jokingly called him Captain Jumpshot, but I wonder now if this isn't going to be an issue come playoff time.

                                Why is this happening? Is the paint too crowded? Is he getting too comfortable on the perimeter?

                                By way of comparison, Harden is 24% at the rim and 70% jumpers this year. Wade is 31% and 63%.
                                Could be the emergence of JV and Amir in the post, Lowry doing a lot more penetrating and kicking out, Patterson also a capable scorer in the post...just in general a lot more spread out offense meaning DD is the recipeient of kick outs for open looks.

                                Comment

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