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I'm with the original poster. It looks grim for the raps for far longer than 3 years.
DD might turn into a consistent scorer and davis into a respectable starting 4, or it might turn out that they are just standout players on a poor team.
Bargs is a talent and an albatross.
Jose is 30. Who replaces him in 3 years? A draft pick? How long does it take a young pg to figure the NBA out? Please don't mention Bayless.
And even if we pulled a VC from the upcoming (weak) draft it would take at least 3 years to get him to the point where he's winning games for us. This might make us a .500 team, except for our very tough division.
Plus we have BC at the helm - a guy who buys his 'pieces' at Costco.
How do you extract optimism from this situation? Because we have cap space? Because some of our players are improving? We've been a lousy team for most of our history, yet I see the Leaf refrain of 'maybe next year' repeated here endlessly.
Boston is going to be competitive, if not elite, for the next 3 years. NY has two top-10 players. Championships have been won with that formula. NJ is going to draft just before or after us and already have more talent. Philly? Meh, I'm not so sure about that team long-term, but they are better than us in the short-to-mid term.
And remember folks, these teams don't have to win championships or even go far in the playoffs. They merely have to beat us.
I love the Raptors, but purple-coloured glasses just give me a headache.
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Copywryter wrote: View PostI'm with the original poster. It looks grim for the raps for far longer than 3 years.
DD might turn into a consistent scorer and davis into a respectable starting 4, or it might turn out that they are just standout players on a poor team.
Bargs is a talent and an albatross.
Jose is 30. Who replaces him in 3 years? A draft pick? How long does it take a young pg to figure the NBA out? Please don't mention Bayless.
And even if we pulled a VC from the upcoming (weak) draft it would take at least 3 years to get him to the point where he's winning games for us. This might make us a .500 team, except for our very tough division.
Plus we have BC at the helm - a guy who buys his 'pieces' at Costco.
How do you extract optimism from this situation? Because we have cap space? Because some of our players are improving? We've been a lousy team for most of our history, yet I see the Leaf refrain of 'maybe next year' repeated here endlessly.
Boston is going to be competitive, if not elite, for the next 3 years. NY has two top-10 players. Championships have been won with that formula. NJ is going to draft just before or after us and already have more talent. Philly? Meh, I'm not so sure about that team long-term, but they are better than us in the short-to-mid term.
And remember folks, these teams don't have to win championships or even go far in the playoffs. They merely have to beat us.
I love the Raptors, but purple-coloured glasses just give me a headache.TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.
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Arsenalist wrote: View PostC**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
Nets - Lopez, DWill
Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani
Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
If we are discussing the future, as in 2 seasons time, I disagree with the above.
BOS - on last legs if not dismantled.
NYK - a lot of pieces to add to become more than a 1st/2nd round team. Same issue there as Toronto currently faces - adding defensive pieces as scoring is not a problem.
NJ - Williams lustre certainly has faded of late. No doubt the talent is one of the best at PG in the league. Lopez is averaging under 6 rebs per game. They have 7M tied up in Outlaw - worse than Calderon, IMO, as Calderon does actually produce. Few draft picks remaining, little young talent, a star-PG who may very well leave after next season.
PHI - Brand is below his career averages and 32 in less than a month with $35M owed over the next 2 seasons, Williams is a solid back up PG paid 5M per season, AI is not worth his contract and it only gets worse, Turner is a 22 year old rookie who is struggling but will most likely improve, Young is a free agent this year and they have $54M tied up in their team already for next year. My opinion is they are right where they are going to be.
As for TOR, they have 2 players who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers. They have 2 PF's who look able to put up a double/double on a nightly basis. They have young players who might not be stars, all-stars, or even starters but they have talent as the team is quickly filling up with recent first round picks. They have a high draft pick coming (which is going to be extremely crucial for the near future) and some cap space. Even Chuck agreed that TOR has a bright future and BC has done some good things up there of late - notwithstanding the last 2 years.
Those who continue to rightfully go on about defense, look at the acquisitions of late - there is a continuing trend of trying to find athletic players who have shown ability on the defensive end.
This is not meant to be a pro-BC post or a purple-colored glasses response, the reality is for a team that just started a significant rebuild, progress is being made (salaries moved out, young players/reclaimation projects brought in, high draft pick coming, cap space available). Losing the commitment of Calderon/Barbosa for next season (and season after for Calderon) and adding another draft pick would certainly give me more confidence. Hopefully the Raps have a busy draft day and people see the forest through the trees.
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Arsenalist wrote: View PostC**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
Nets - Lopez, DWill
Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani
Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
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Arsenalist wrote: View PostC**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
Nets - Lopez, DWill
Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani
Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
With the unfocused GM style of BC and the type of long term contracts that he gives out to a barely role players in this league, the future is NOT LOOKING too bright.
I think it will be atleast another 4-5 years ( with the current GM and Coach) that we will make the play off.
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mattscottnelson wrote: View Postbc players want to be a part of the legacy.
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Arsenalist wrote: View PostC**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
Nets - Lopez, DWill
Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani
Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
And Philly has not shown, in my opinion, the ability to be 'Easily' a playoff team. They are SO inconsistent and have not proven to be any better than the Raps+ a good pick.
Though I do agree the East has gone from 'Least' to 'Beast'.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostIf we are discussing the here and now, valid points above.
If we are discussing the future, as in 2 seasons time, I disagree with the above.
BOS - on last legs if not dismantled.
NYK - a lot of pieces to add to become more than a 1st/2nd round team. Same issue there as Toronto currently faces - adding defensive pieces as scoring is not a problem.
NJ - Williams lustre certainly has faded of late. No doubt the talent is one of the best at PG in the league. Lopez is averaging under 6 rebs per game. They have 7M tied up in Outlaw - worse than Calderon, IMO, as Calderon does actually produce. Few draft picks remaining, little young talent, a star-PG who may very well leave after next season.
PHI - Brand is below his career averages and 32 in less than a month with $35M owed over the next 2 seasons, Williams is a solid back up PG paid 5M per season, AI is not worth his contract and it only gets worse, Turner is a 22 year old rookie who is struggling but will most likely improve, Young is a free agent this year and they have $54M tied up in their team already for next year. My opinion is they are right where they are going to be.
As for TOR, they have 2 players who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers. They have 2 PF's who look able to put up a double/double on a nightly basis. They have young players who might not be stars, all-stars, or even starters but they have talent as the team is quickly filling up with recent first round picks. They have a high draft pick coming (which is going to be extremely crucial for the near future) and some cap space. Even Chuck agreed that TOR has a bright future and BC has done some good things up there of late - notwithstanding the last 2 years.
Those who continue to rightfully go on about defense, look at the acquisitions of late - there is a continuing trend of trying to find athletic players who have shown ability on the defensive end.
This is not meant to be a pro-BC post or a purple-colored glasses response, the reality is for a team that just started a significant rebuild, progress is being made (salaries moved out, young players/reclaimation projects brought in, high draft pick coming, cap space available). Losing the commitment of Calderon/Barbosa for next season (and season after for Calderon) and adding another draft pick would certainly give me more confidence. Hopefully the Raps have a busy draft day and people see the forest through the trees.
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karim_nasir wrote: View Posthave you seen jrue holiday play ?
I love the kid, don't get me wrong, but I think people have a slightly inflated opinion of him.
The fact that he's 6'4" and has the ball on a string is the main reason why people are so high on him, and rightfully so. But he still has ALOT to prove in terms of consistency. Which is where his main problem lies. And until he can be consistent for 82 games, then he will never be mentioned as a great PG. Which he is not right now. Gotta remember at UCLA he was playing SG. He's still learning. Which is more a good thing than a bad thing.
So I guess I agree with you Karim, just adding to your point.Last edited by Joey; Wed Feb 23, 2011, 07:48 PM.
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karim_nasir wrote: View Posthave you seen jrue holiday play ?
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Matt52 wrote: View PostI have. A solid young PG - he is still only 20. Of what they have, he is the most promising by far. One PG does not make a team though - especially a team with the make up and financial handcuffs the 76'ers have moving forward.
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karim_nasir wrote: View Postso in your review of the 76ers, you left him out completely... not sure why you would do that if we're talking about the future of teams in our division, and holiday is probably the biggest and best part of the 76ers future.
While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostBecause I was speaking of the flaws of the team and why their future success has, in my opinion, plateaued as the team is currently constructed.
While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.
oh i get it... you were doing an atlantic division review, but listed all the bad things about the other teams and all the good things about the raptors...
very informative and fair matt.
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