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DC and development of young players: bad players, bad coach or something more?

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  • #91
    TheMarfin wrote: View Post
    First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP).

    Second I would like to address the above quoute before getting into the heart my rebuttal to the overall point of the thread. How does Portland not have a superstar? Lilliard is better than any player on the raptors and still has upside. In 5 years he could be the best PG in the league and no one would be surprised by it. Lilliard isn't even the best player on Ripcity, Aldridge is getting serious MVP consideration. I think the clearly have some star power.

    Finally. The idea that talent is wasted in Toronto because we can't develop our players is valid but a bit of a stretch. Even if this was the case in the past due to coaching/management philosophy, we have clearly moved on as an organization. Could these Raptors make the playoffs, develop together, get some experience and be a solid team? I think so. Would I watch the games and be excited for the playoffs? Of course! But does our team currently have in place enough short term and potential long term talent to win game 7's in the playoffs? No we don't.

    PS I also feel that the concept that "clearly Raptors fans want to tank because everyone on the Raptors Republic forum wants to tank" is skewed. If you are a big enough fan of the team to be posting on a team forum you probably have a lot invested in the team and the sport of basketball. Hardcore fans understand how being bad is needed to be good, I think the average fan (which make up a large majority of the teams following) would rather be okay and make the playoffs.

    Cheers!
    Solid contribution. The other thing that Portland has that we lacked for years is a well balanced roster. The pieces they have fit well together.

    Aldridge - amazing post scorer and passer with good range
    Batum - very good perimeter shooter and decent ball handler and good defender
    Matthews - very good perimeter shooter and decent defender
    Lillard - the motor, can score inside or out, in transition or half-court
    Lopez - big with a decent motor to do the dirty work, undervalued player for years is getting some due finally
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #92
      TheMarfin wrote: View Post
      First I would like to say what up to everyone long time reader, first time poster (tank photo to come ASAP)....
      Cheers!
      Welcome. Keep posting. Good stuff.

      Comment


      • #93
        I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

        THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.
        "Bruno?
        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
        He's terrible."

        -Superjudge, 7/23

        Hope you're wrong.

        Comment


        • #94
          stooley wrote: View Post
          I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

          THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.
          In agreement.

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          • #95
            stooley wrote: View Post
            I read a Brad Stevens interview where he said that the biggest difference between pro ball and college ball is how much more they practice in college. There are just too many games in the NBA.

            THIS is why JV's gotta get more minutes. He needs these games to develop.
            This quote would be perfect on that other thread where guys are talking about how bad it is to stay for extra years in college. The NBA isn't for development.

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            • #96
              ezz_bee wrote: View Post
              It's a tough call, while it does seem that JV is showing more frustration this year versus last year, it is difficult to parse where he is directing that frustration. How much is directed at teammates, coach(es), himself, or just unspecified frustration at the universe?

              This also isn't something I'm worried about. JV will earn Casey's respect, and/or Casey won't be back next year. I do feel that if there is any damage to JV's development due to Casey's system/minutes will be remedied pretty quickly with a new coach. At least I'm not worried that Casey will "ruin" JV as a player.
              I agree. Like many fans, I'd like Jonas to have more minutes and more touches after the 1st quarter. There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem here - he clearly seems to play better when he's engaged and involved (like many players), but he loses that opportunity when he makes mistakes.

              I don't think Casey's ruining Jonas' development - that fear is overstated, imho. Plenty of coaches develop young players this way. The appropriate approach really depends on your personnel - "playing through mistakes" means some young guys are allowed to develop, or never required to address, bad habits. Heavy minutes help accelerate development for other guys. Getting benched is a wake-up call for some guys that helps them stay focused while they're on the floor and paying attention to what the coaching staff is trying to teach them. Other guys get rattled and thrown out of rhythm by being benched and playing with irregular minutes. A guy like Bargs loses confidence and motivation altogether without regular minutes.

              I think Jonas will be fine, even though I'd like to see him with a bit of a longer leash.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • #97
                Jonas and Ross's Development

                So I just thought it was funny that everyone is blaming Dwayne Casey for not effectively developing his young talent this season. Simply put, it has been the topic of nearly every Quick Recap, and the subject of many forum threads. Yet, although I do agree that this is the case, and the problem is quite severe, I don't necessarily think that Casey is solely to blame. I see this ongoing issue as a function of the lack of developmental incentives directed towards Casey. Think about it, the man is in the last year of his contract and is quite desperate to win. Specifically, he needs to justify his extension, or at the very least strengthen his basketball resume so that he may find a job elsewhere. Therefore, it shouldn't be a surprise that Casey is unwilling to play his younger and more inexperienced players as they will not contribute to his job security. I mean, would you want to role the dice and use largely unknown mercurial entities when vying to keep your job (Ross to a greater extent)? I wouldn't.

                This is why I think that Casey should have been fired long ago. It's no secret that he probably isn't going to be extended, so why should he care about how the rookies develop? In all reality, from his perspective it's probably much better if they do not blossom into all-stars. Would you want to have to compete against a stronger team when revisiting Toronto with another organization? I don't think so.

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                • #98
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  I mistakenly assumed you wanted to discuss his playing time, which has been an ongoing discussion for well over a season, which is why your post was moved.

                  Had I realized you actually were going for conspiracy theories, I probably would have closed the thread and moved it to the trash-bin.

                  I'm democratic enough to give you a little leeway but, from the posts above mine, I think you're flying solo on this expedition!
                  You sound like an absolute tyrant, wow, shut up. Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech? I actually wanted to respond to the original post until I seen what you wrote. Are you actually a representative of RR or are you just a guy who posts allot??

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                  • #99
                    Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
                    You sound like an absolute tyrant, wow, shut up. Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech? I actually wanted to respond to the original post until I seen what you wrote. Are you actually a representative of RR or are you just a guy who posts allot??
                    Uh he's a moderator dude. So he's actually doing what he's supposed to.
                    "Bruno?
                    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                    He's terrible."

                    -Superjudge, 7/23

                    Hope you're wrong.

                    Comment


                    • Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
                      Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech?
                      Did anyone get arrested for posting on RR that I'm not aware of?

                      I wise man once said.....


                      Comment


                      • Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
                        You sound like an absolute tyrant, wow, shut up. Is this not Canada where we have freedom of speech? I actually wanted to respond to the original post until I seen what you wrote. Are you actually a representative of RR or are you just a guy who posts allot??
                        The initial post only gave stats about a single game, so it was moved to that game's thread. It's still there, so please feel free to go and comment about it. Nothing has been deleted or censored, so I'm not sure how freedom of speech has been stifled.

                        A new thread was started with a broader OP so, despite me joking that it felt more like a conspiracy theory than something factual, the thread was obviously left open for discussion. I never did see a single response that agreed with the conspiracy theory posed by the OP, but an even broader discussion about DC and the development of all young players under him (not just JV) ensued.

                        As a result, the multiple threads discussing the same topic have since been merged, rather than having 2 or 3 identical conversations going on. DC's coaching style/decisions and how they relate to the development of young players (including JV) is certainly a worthwhile topic for RR posters to discuss.


                        Anytime you disagree with something going on, or don't understand why something was done, please feel free to send a PM to myself or any of my fellow mods/admins. I promise you, none of us are tyrants... most of the time

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                        • Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
                          How about looking at those minutes and see which of the two has played more 4th quarter minutes? When the game is on the line? I am guessing Drummond!
                          I actually watched a few Detroit games this year... and hacka-Drum is in full effect. He can not finish games because he is a liability on the court due to his inability to hit FT. Drum is a beast... with very limited skill set. I'd much rather have JV than Drum on my team!

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                          • vino wrote: View Post
                            I actually watched a few Detroit games this year... and hacka-Drum is in full effect. He can not finish games because he is a liability on the court due to his inability to hit FT. Drum is a beast... with very limited skill set. I'd much rather have JV than Drum on my team!
                            can we call it beat a Drum please. almost as catchy as hack a shaq

                            or drum beating?
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

                            Comment


                            • vino wrote: View Post
                              I actually watched a few Detroit games this year... and hacka-Drum is in full effect. He can not finish games because he is a liability on the court due to his inability to hit FT. Drum is a beast... with very limited skill set. I'd much rather have JV than Drum on my team!
                              Well Jonas doesn't play down the stretch either. So I guess it's a wash

                              Comment


                              • Either Casey's basketball IQ is quite Low or he's been told to throw games. There is NO WAY he is a NBA coach and does not recognize that JV is his best rebounder or biggest presence in the post. JV is averaging nearly 10&8 with only 27 min floor time. I don't buy the whole thing about Casey wanting to win and that's why he doesn't play JV in crunch time. He wants to win and he has his #1 rebounder sitting on the bench?? SO Casey's either a fool or he's been told to throw games imo. If us fans realize this, there is no way Casey is coaching in the NBA and believes otherwise...unless he's an idiot. I repeated myself 8 times i know.

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