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  • Really people? I just want to end all of this with his score line against the Utah Jazz. 26 points (8-19, 2-3, 8-9) 9 rebounds (4 offensive, Reggie had 6 rebounds) 3 assists, 2 blocks. Now he also had a +/- of -19, worst of the team. Now, in the past three games, Andrea has ALWAYS had a positive +/-, and the games were all pretty close or we won. Now we lost by 20 (yes, I know it's the Jazz) but Bargnani got nearly a double-double.
    So I hope all you people are happy, cause he got rebounds. And did we win? What will you blame Bargnani on the loss now??

    Comment


    • JoePanini wrote: View Post
      Really people? I just want to end all of this with his score line against the Utah Jazz. 26 points (8-19, 2-3, 8-9) 9 rebounds (4 offensive, Reggie had 6 rebounds) 3 assists, 2 blocks. Now he also had a +/- of -19, worst of the team. Now, in the past three games, Andrea has ALWAYS had a positive +/-, and the games were all pretty close or we won. Now we lost by 20 (yes, I know it's the Jazz) but Bargnani got nearly a double-double.
      So I hope all you people are happy, cause he got rebounds. And did we win? What will you blame Bargnani on the loss now??
      They lost by 17 why are you even talking ?
      Anybody can score and pad stats when you get blown the f1uck out....and one game where he boards 9 times doesnt erase 4 seasons of crap....

      Seriously why are you talking ?
      Somebody has to score on bad teams...it doesnt mean a thing..he isnt going to no all star game...it just means he has freedom to do whatever he wants whenever he wants cuz this team is going to win 22 games this year which means theres no pressure on him....

      Andrea is never going to lead a winning/contending team and tonights stats aside he is mad inconsistent...tonight just proves he can pad his stats when getting blown out and ur dumbass looks at it like some kind of accomplishment...

      Comment


      • Trife76 wrote: View Post
        4 rebs

        No
        9. 4 offensive.

        Comment


        • JoePanini wrote: View Post
          9. 4 offensive.
          1 game lost by 17
          =
          meaningless

          Comment


          • Trife76 wrote: View Post
            1 game lost by 17
            =
            meaningless
            exactly my point. the games where he didn't rebound we won, or was close. The game where he rebounds we lose by 20. Which Bargnani do you prefer?

            Comment


            • Its funny. He's last on RPG (3) and second last in RPG per 48 (4.3), of all 55 centres. He's only better than Solomon jones.

              He's relatively high on the list in blocks, but he's low in steals.

              He's also second worst in TOPG.

              http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...sition/centers

              Overall, I think he needs to get substantially better before this team starts winning (not padding his offensive stats). Or we get a Howard type player to play along side him (impossible).

              Apollo wrote: View Post
              Let's get one thing straight, Bargnani's rebounding is not close to the teams biggest problem and it's not causing losses. I don't give a crap who grabs the board. If Evans grabs 15 and Bargnani grabs 4, I don't care. All I care is that somebody getting it. Meanwhile Andrea is shooting 50% from the field and 55% from downtown.

              FYI, #9. That's where the Raptors rank so far this season in fewest offensive rebounds allowed.

              Source: ESPN.com

              Same page, they ranked 7th in average rebounds per game this season so far. That's a +3.6 differential, good for 8th overall.

              Comment


              • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                exactly my point. the games where he didn't rebound we won, or was close. The game where he rebounds we lose by 20. Which Bargnani do you prefer?
                I prefer the one whos the 3rd option on the team or comes off the bench...

                Comment


                • Brandon wrote: View Post
                  Alright, granted, he's not rebounding like a frontcourt player needs to. But understanding that, what would you do about it? He has a guaranteed contract, and this club desperately needs his scoring. This team has a far greater weakness -- no wing offense at all. Scratch that. It has no wing production of any kind. If Bargnani suddenly went down with an injury, the team would be worse.

                  Here is a summary of the five options available to the Raptors:

                  1. Hope he gets better.
                  2. Trade him.
                  3. Cut him/buy him out.
                  4. Bench him until he dummies up.
                  5. Play him next to a frontcourt player who does well all the things Bargnani doesn't (Dwight Howard, for instance).

                  Of course we can all just hope he gets better, but as Dave Berri says "hope is not a plan". Allegedly he can be traded (if Colangelo can be believed). But whatever comes back had better be able to score a lot of points. Bargnani could be bought out or released at great expense, but that wouldn't make the team better. Benching him wouldn't make the team better, and he'd likely just demand a trade, and he'd have leverage since he has a guaranteed contract and will be paid regardless of his court time.

                  Realistically the only thing that can be done in the near term is to disguise his weaknesses by playing him next to a player like Evans, or ideally someone better than Evans (a shallow, one-dimensional player if there ever was one) who could be brought in using the TPE.

                  This is the ideal type of player the Raptors need to aim for to play next to Bargnani. A player that can: defend the post, guard the rim, push big bodies out of the lane, score inside like a machine, block shots, pass the ball out of double-teams, and set screens and score off the pick and roll.
                  The only logical option is to trade him and try and find a team is entranced by his offensive skills. You can only hide a player's liabilities for so long, but they're often exposed during crunch time, like they were against Sacramento. No matter who you put him beside, it doesn't eliminate his weaknesses. They always rear their ugly head, and often at the worst times.

                  As for those who feel the criticism is unwarranted, maybe we're all just sick and tired of seeing the same goddamn problems from the same player year after year, and sick of so many Raptor fans trying to tell us that the piece of junk jewelry they found is really a priceless diamond neckless.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  Comment


                  • Trife76 wrote: View Post
                    Andrea is never going to lead a winning/contending team and tonights stats aside he is mad inconsistent...tonight just proves he can pad his stats when getting blown out and ur dumbass looks at it like some kind of accomplishment...
                    Nobody is saying that Andrea is a number 1 option on a contending team, Bosh wasn't and he is a better player than Bargs.

                    That being said, I think your constant bashing of Bargs is unreasonable. You say his defenders are biased and stupid. but you are exactly the same. He can't rebound for shite, but he is the best scorer on the team and like it or not his man-on-man defense is not atrocious (help defense is another matter altogher though). Your are right, someone does have to put up points for the team, what's your point? He's not playing against inferior opposition, and he's getting to the line more than previous years, overall he has stepped it up.

                    The role of a centre is traditionally to defend and rebound, but I don't see why you can't win with someone who is a non-traditional centre (Dirk). If you pair him with good players, next to a centre who can defend and rebound (Reggie cannot play good defense), a good point guard and wingers, then that team is going to do well.

                    Comment


                    • and Joseph you dont have a point because ur a ridiculous stan of this guy....

                      We also didnt win either game he scored 26 and 28 points...so now ur point is what ?
                      The game in Utah we werent going to win...so the stats are meaningless..the game in SAC we could have won...the rebounding and defense was a factor,you cant win this argument cuz you have no examples top support you
                      Me on the other hand eveyr thing i said about him has been the truth....i said hed score and we'd be terrible....go back to 05-06 Mike James scored 20 a game and we stunk....does it mean he was an all star ? does it mean he was a front line player ? No it didnt mean anything other than someone HAS to score on a POS team.....
                      ....now toss that uranium in the spin cycle...

                      Comment


                      • Trife76 wrote: View Post
                        I prefer the one whos the 3rd option on the team or comes off the bench...
                        Do you actually watch any of the games?

                        Comment


                        • Trife76 wrote: View Post
                          They lost by 17 why are you even talking ?
                          Anybody can score and pad stats when you get blown the f1uck out....and one game where he boards 9 times doesnt erase 4 seasons of crap....

                          Seriously why are you talking ?
                          Somebody has to score on bad teams...it doesnt mean a thing..he isnt going to no all star game...it just means he has freedom to do whatever he wants whenever he wants cuz this team is going to win 22 games this year which means theres no pressure on him....

                          Andrea is never going to lead a winning/contending team and tonights stats aside he is mad inconsistent...tonight just proves he can pad his stats when getting blown out and ur dumbass looks at it like some kind of accomplishment...
                          Let me get this straight. When we WIN and Bargnani scores and doesn't rebound everyone gives him shit. When we LOSE and Bargnani scores and rebounds everyone gives him shit. What about the other players then? Why couldn't they score on the losing team?
                          All people like you do is complain.

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                          • Its not unreasonable at all,he gets bashed for not rebounding and not being an interior presence..thats deserving....Best scorer on a 20 win team means absolutely nothing esp when alot of those losses will be on the blowout side....

                            See whats funny best thing u can say about his D is its not atrocious so what is that a notch under bad or a notch above pathetic lol

                            Name me a team that won with a non traditional center ? or one is average on D and doesnt rebound ? Dirk at least averages a dub but even he doesnt perform in the playoffs and get his team to that next level cuz that perimeter jumpshooting crap dont work in May/June....and if you pair him with a good PF and good guards then the credit goes to those players and not Andrea because we just now admitted he cannot lead a team or be the go to guy on a winning team.....

                            So in the end you really made no points other than agreeing that he stinks on the glass which was my whole point to my thread...

                            Comment


                            • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                              Let me get this straight. When we WIN and Bargnani scores and doesn't rebound everyone gives him shit. When we LOSE and Bargnani scores and rebounds everyone gives him shit. What about the other players then? Why couldn't they score on the losing team?
                              All people like you do is complain.
                              Those other players are not the No 1 guy appointed to this team,they were not No 1 overrall draft picks..they are not 7 feet and afraid of contact with his skillset...Nobody in here was trumpeting how great Sonny Weems and Reggie Evans were going to be now that Bosh is gone,nobody was talking about Jarrett Jack becoming an all star with Bosh out the way BUT BUT BUT did YOU and these other fans not say that about Bargnani ?



                              Anymore questions

                              Comment


                              • When we lose games because of bargs play on the glass and defensively YES
                                When we win games because of defense and rebounding HASNT HAPPENED

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