SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

[ebrian]

can't read this whole thread, but just my two cents:

I definitely see this as part of the rebranding. Change the VC days from a negative (no player wants to play here) to a positive: remember when we had that sick athlete who held the league's breath.

That's good for marketing fans and players (FAs).

I think this is a good point. I don't know about signing Vince and having him play here.. I think the wounds are too deep for that. But I think redefining or changing the way we think about Vince plays a big role in the rebranding of the team/franchise.

If you look back on our nearly 20 years of existence, how many former GOOD players can you name that can come back to the ACC and not get booed? Let's say TL decides to throw a big 20th anniversary party and invite former players to come speak. He wouldn't be able to invite, for example, any of the Raptors who have made the All-Star game. Sure, we've got consummate pro's like Mo Pete, maybe a Jalen Rose because he loves publicity, and Alvin Williams. But what about our truly great players? T-Mac? Vince? Davis? Bosh? None of those guys can come because the fans would scream bloody murder, and I think that's really unfortunate.

It would be really nice, for a change, to have a good player leave our team on good terms.

[ebrian]

You're right that VC was employed by the Raptors franchise to play basketball hard and do everything possible to help the team win; he never did owe anything to the fans. He has admitted to purposefully not giving full effort and not caring whether the team won, while being employed.

To follow the analogy, he's more like an ex that cheated, admitted it, never apologized, and then took the house and kids in the divorce. Who talks to that kind of ex?!

I've never cared one way or another about VC or any other former player. I've always said that the booing makes us look foolish and has even served to motivate Raptors' opponents (VC, TMac and Bosh have all publically stated that the continual booing motivated them while playing against the Raptors in Toronto). However, I really have no desire to see VC come back to the Raptors, unless it helps successfully lure Durant via free agency in 2016.

Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.

[Letter N]

Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.

1) Athletes are employees to the team, not to the fans.

2) Using your analogy, you have an employee you hire for 7 years, in year 5 he starts showing up to work late, slacking off, costing you business at every turn and selling your company's private info to competing companies and then laughing it off to your face.
I doubt you bring him back for the ribbon cutting ceremony when opening your new building.

[Apollo]

Forgiveness is a funny thing, because it is often something that is given out when the other party doesn't deserve it. It would be difficult for me to forgive someone if they had made a promise to me and then broke that promise (such as your marriage infidelity example). But if I had hired a person to complete a job for me and he did it well for 5 out of 7 years, I don't think down the road I would be mad at this person. It would probably take a few years before I could trust him well enough to re-hire him, and I would probably spend a lot of time checking his references to make sure that his pattern of slacking are a thing of the past. But if I had developed a friendship with him over those years, I don't think I would stop being friends with him.

Actions speak louder than words. Throwing out a "my bad" is easy to do. He's always gone for the easy route. The guy isn't sorry about it, come on. If he really cared about it he would have shown his sorriness with actions. He's never done this.

What Vince did was a prolonged, premeditated string of actions to get his own way no matter the cost to the fans or the organization. It's not like he spilled his Shirley Temple on the hardwood, which led to water damage on the court or something. He ripped a huge hole in the franchise which you could argue they never recovered from. The Raptors signed all his key teammates(Davis, JYD, Alvin, etc.) to long term deals to get Vince to re-sign. In doing so they invested a lot of money into those guys. Those guys worked really well with Vince and you could argue they were worth it while playing with Vince. Vince ripped himself out of the equation, left the Raptors with nothing in return, along with a bunch of high priced, low value deadweight for the most part. Contracts they were stuck with for a long time which caused a real rebuild to be postponed for three years.

Vince is a big boy and he knows what he did. He knew at the time what it would mean to the team, his teammates and the fans. He hasn't shown that he's sorry, he hasn't shown he gives a damn about anyone but himself.

[RobertArchibald]

I think what you meant to say was:
I was a huge Vince fan from the start but Babcock handcuffed this franchise. His trade is one of the worst of all time. A player of Vince's calibre got traded for virtually nothing and that is Babcock's fault. Vince immediately started playing like we all knew he could as soon as he got to NJ. I'm not out for revenge or anything but let's not ignore the latter when it comes to forgiving and forgetting. Vince did a lot for this franchise, but I watched A LOT of terrible games after his departure and that's what I'll remember him for. Incredible talent, incredibly wasted.

Babcock pulling the trigger on that trade is totally on him, but Vince gave up, complained, and was an absolute detriment to the city and franchise before his departure.

[phiLLy]

I wouldn't mind seeing VC back.

[Superjudge]

He has admitted to purposefully not giving full effort and not caring whether the team won, while being employed.

Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

Its not true.

There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.

[Superjudge]

Actions speak louder than words. Throwing out a "my bad" is easy to do. He's always gone for the easy route. The guy isn't sorry about it, come on. If he really cared about it he would have shown his sorriness with actions. He's never done this.

What Vince did was a prolonged, premeditated string of actions to get his own way no matter the cost to the fans or the organization. It's not like he spilled his Shirley Temple on the hardwood, which led to water damage on the court or something. He ripped a huge hole in the franchise which you could argue they never recovered from. The Raptors signed all his key teammates(Davis, JYD, Alvin, etc.) to long term deals to get Vince to re-sign. In doing so they invested a lot of money into those guys. Those guys worked really well with Vince and you could argue they were worth it while playing with Vince. Vince ripped himself out of the equation, left the Raptors with nothing in return, along with a bunch of high priced, low value deadweight for the most part. Contracts they were stuck with for a long time which caused a real rebuild to be postponed for three years.

Vince is a big boy and he knows what he did. He knew at the time what it would mean to the team, his teammates and the fans. He hasn't shown that he's sorry, he hasn't shown he gives a damn about anyone but himself.

ha.
ok

[Letter N]

Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

His numbers improved by like 50% in every category as soon as he got traded. You don't need a lie detector to figure out he wasn't giving full effort.

[Superjudge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VIDwTgeqc0

[iblastoff]

All this fucking whining. Each and everyone one of you should be down on your knees in front of VC and thanking the shit out of him or else I doubt this forum and website let alone the team would even still exist.

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[The Great One]

Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

Its not true.

There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.

Well said.

[Apollo]

Here is one of those "facts" that never actually happened. carter was asked by thompson if he gave his full effort, Carter replied that he didnt, because up until then he was always able to get by on talent. People want to sensationalize everything, the media blew this crap way outta the water, and the fans all followed like sheep. 10 year later, people state, as if its fact, 'Vince carter played like shit on purpose and never tried to win as a raptor".

Its not true.

There are likely a very large number of players that would have answered that question exactly the same way.

If you were watching back then:

*You must have seen him play really well the season before the trade.

*You must have seen him totally **** the season of the trade, averaging like 15ppg, becoming a liability on defence, giving no visible effort, broadcasting very negative body language, basically mopping around the court like a hurt puppy. Side note, what a self absorbed ass he was...

*If you watched any nets games immediately after the trade you also must have seen him immediately revert back to vintage Carter overnight, doing everything really well. Actually putting in effort, driving to the rim, etc.


I don't give a crap what the media says. I watched this all play our with my own two eye, I came to places like this to vent my shock, disappointment, disbelief, etc. This Carter saga is stained in my memory like it was yesterday. It was ridiculous and I think time is the only variable that has changed for some. I also realize that some of the best Raptors fans around may have been too young to remember this whole thing.

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[Apollo]

All this fucking whining. Each and everyone one of you should be down on your knees in front of VC and thanking the shit out of him or else I doubt this forum and website let alone the team would even still exist.

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Why is that? The only reason T-Mac left was because he wanted his own team. You trying to tell me a roster of McGrady, Jamison, Davis, Oak, Alvin, JYD, Dell Curry, Keon Clark, etc. couldn't win just as much if not more?

Or maybe you're forgetting that the team had lots of followers and was not at risk. Maybe you're forgetting Stern' priority to globalize the sport?

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[Apollo]

No, wait, you're right. Let's start The Church of Vince Carter. We can celebrate the day he was drafted with a tree and the day he got knocked out of the second round with some chocolate eggs.

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