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Ric Bucher on DD: "I haven't been blown away by his progress so far."

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  • #16
    Brasky wrote: View Post
    Yes, I've seen every game thus far. I'm not sure you have. You're cherry picking a good stretch of games, and not looking at the whole season. That's why his season numbers to date are so mediocre and not much of an improvement over last year. He needs to keep it up until until April. Many marginal players in this league have stretches of good games, especially players on bad teams who are getting force fed minutes and possessions. I do love Derozan and think he will do well in the long run.
    I missed the west coast games as I get up too early and I am on the east coast but have watched every other.

    I'm talking about his continued improvement over the last 2-2.5 months from December 1st. That is 35 games, 36 tonight versus Portland, out of a career of 130 games. That is a long enough stretch where cherry picking is not a valid description for a 21 year old with 1.5 seasons under his belt.

    No doubt about the marginal players. However, I am talking about a 21 year old who is just scratching the surface of his physical abilities and still very much learning how to play at the NBA level.

    It is way to easy to be negative - especially for this Raptors season. There are a few bright spots on this team and DeMar is definitely one of them.

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    • #17
      Brasky wrote: View Post
      Yes, I've seen every game thus far. I'm not sure you have. You're cherry picking a good stretch of games, and not looking at the whole season. That's why his season numbers to date are so mediocre and not much of an improvement over last year. He needs to keep it up until until April. Many marginal players in this league have stretches of good games, especially players on bad teams who are getting force fed minutes and possessions. I do love Derozan and think he will do well in the long run.
      The whole point of looking at a player's progress is looking at how he has actually progressed over the year. Is he a better player now than he was a month ago? Two months ago? Three months ago? In DeRozan's case the answer is yes. He's vastly improved his jumper and his movement without the ball. He's gotten better defending, rebounding and ball handling. Obviously you give more weight to more recent play because that's how development works. You can't choose a two week period at the beginning of January and look at that. But that's not what we're doing.

      The fact of the matter is that DeRozan is a much better player than he was last season, and has improved every month.

      DeRozan averaged
      11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg and 1.7 apg in November
      15.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg and 1.7 apg in December
      18.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg and 1.9 apg in January
      19.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg and 2.3 apg in February

      All while shooting a decent percentage from the field and improving in all aspects of his game.

      Last year, he performed adequately, but lost his starting position to Weems late in the year, had no jumper or ability to handle the ball, and simply plays with far more confidence.

      My question is, what exactly have you seen that DeRozan HASN'T improved on over last year?

      Oh, and just for the record, I've seen every single minute of every single game.
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      • #18
        I have been pretty impressed with DD's progress lately, but I can't really say that I have been "blown away" by any of that. In the beginning of the season I was quite disappointed in his lack of improvement, and increasingly apparent horrible defense. It's been quite a surprise that he's been improving on both ends of the court (and still has a very long way to go). I used to even picked Weems over him to start. Well, not anymore.

        On the other hand, I have been blown away by Amir Johnson's jumper and FT efficiency this season.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          "Dave (London)


          Demar Derozan = Rip Hamilton? As in, a guy who can be good for 20 a night coming off screens, catching and shooting? Do you think he becomes Toronto's future star player? Or a decent 2nd fiddle?

          Ric Bucher (1:53 PM)


          Getting a ton of Euro love, for some reason. DeRozan and Rip have same body type. DeRozan is a much better athlete, not as good of a shooter and could be first-team all-defense. His potential is greater than Rip's but it remains to be seen if he can make the most of it. I haven't been blown away by his progress so far.
          "

          How many Raps games do you think Bucher has watched? The guy has steadily increased his scoring average and methods of scoring each month since the season started. Some of his post moves and turn-around jumpers of late have been beautiful to watch. If he can continue the lane will start to open up as people respect his mid-range. It seems like his jump shot is good as long as his foot is on the 3 point line.

          Defensively has been a struggle but the tools are there and he has shown flashes.

          I chalk this comment up to another ignorant commentator who knows little about the Raps except they play in Canada. To say you haven't been blown away by his progress - as he was drafted as a project and is still raw - means expectations are unrealistic.

          In the end though - I guess he is entitled to his opinion as I am mine.... it is just my opinion is correct - lol.
          the commentator is ignorant due to some bias or has not watched dd played of late - so what ric said should not be a concern. dd is doing well, once the team improves and is respected by refs, he will start getting calls driving to the rim. 'nuff said.
          Last edited by smushmush; Fri Feb 11, 2011, 11:22 PM.

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          • #20
            Tim W. wrote: View Post
            The whole point of looking at a player's progress is looking at how he has actually progressed over the year. Is he a better player now than he was a month ago? Two months ago? Three months ago? In DeRozan's case the answer is yes. He's vastly improved his jumper and his movement without the ball. He's gotten better defending, rebounding and ball handling. Obviously you give more weight to more recent play because that's how development works. You can't choose a two week period at the beginning of January and look at that. But that's not what we're doing.

            The fact of the matter is that DeRozan is a much better player than he was last season, and has improved every month.

            DeRozan averaged
            11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg and 1.7 apg in November
            15.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg and 1.7 apg in December
            18.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg and 1.9 apg in January
            19.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg and 2.3 apg in February

            All while shooting a decent percentage from the field and improving in all aspects of his game.

            Last year, he performed adequately, but lost his starting position to Weems late in the year, had no jumper or ability to handle the ball, and simply plays with far more confidence.

            My question is, what exactly have you seen that DeRozan HASN'T improved on over last year?

            Oh, and just for the record, I've seen every single minute of every single game.
            Hypocrite!
            When Bargani has a bad stretch you seem to ignore his good games!
            You fail to mention his improvements
            yes yes you are a complete hypo

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            • #21
              DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
              Hypocrite!
              When Bargani has a bad stretch you seem to ignore his good games!
              You fail to mention his improvements
              yes yes you are a complete hypo
              *Sigh*
              All while shooting a decent percentage from the field and improving in all aspects of his game.
              Why do you even have to brings Bargs into this? He's not a better player this season when compared to last year. And he hasn't shot 25% over a ridiculous stretch, all the the while regressing defensively and on the boards.

              I bet a lot of people don't like Bayless, but I'm not going to get so butthurt about it.

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              • #22
                DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                Hypocrite!
                When Bargani has a bad stretch you seem to ignore his good games!
                You fail to mention his improvements
                yes yes you are a complete hypo
                Why do you "speak" to me as if I'm somehow personally insulting you? I think you need to get a bit of a grip.

                As for Bargnani, I'm not sure why you're bringing him up in a thread that has nothing to do with him, but since you did...

                What improvements are you referring to? He has improved his offense, but that was never the problem with him. He hasn't improved his defense or rebounding one bit, and that was the main area he needed to work on.

                The thing is that you have to look at the big picture and not a stretch of games. Has Bargnani improved over last season? A bit offensively, but not in the areas that he needed the most improvement. Has he improved since the beginning of the season? No. In fact he's not posting up as much, taking more long twos and not getting to the line at as high a rate. And his rebounding and defense are still extremely poor.

                I'm not quite sure how I'm being a hypocrite because I don't ignore lack of improvement in necessary areas, while focusing on improvements in a single area that wasn't a problem in the first place.

                Oh, and when I look at the progress of a player, I don't look at individual games. Looking at individual games can be deceiving. I don't do it for Bargnani or DeRozan.

                And can we cease with the name-calling? It's a little juvenile.
                Last edited by Tim W.; Sat Feb 12, 2011, 05:57 AM.
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                • #23
                  The way things are going I think Derozen is going to be a star on this team and he still has a long way to go in terms of development. I've never felt as optimistic about the Raps future as I do now. We have all of the flexibility in the world and with Demar, Ed, and Amir all fast developing into very good players, I think we're two seasons, a top 5 pick, and some luck away from having something special here. We just ave to clear some of the dead weight.
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • #24
                    This guy analyzes all players in the NBA; Raps fans are being biased if they are saying that Demar has jumped out as a better player then his sophmore peers. It easy as a Raps fan to notice the progress of Demar since last season, but for an NBA analyst, it's probably not eye popping.

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                    • #25
                      Nick wrote: View Post
                      This guy analyzes all players in the NBA; Raps fans are being biased if they are saying that Demar has jumped out as a better player then his sophmore peers. It easy as a Raps fan to notice the progress of Demar since last season, but for an NBA analyst, it's probably not eye popping.
                      Who said he's jumped out as a better player than his sophomore peers? Where are you getting this from? The issue is whether he's shown a lot of progress, which he has, especially in the last couple of months.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                      • #26
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        Who said he's jumped out as a better player than his sophomore peers? Where are you getting this from? The issue is whether he's shown a lot of progress, which he has, especially in the last couple of months.
                        Who are you talking to me or the guy who wrote the article? Way to make something out of nothing, you are the epitome of whats wrong with analytical analysis on a broad scale. Its easy to pinpoint when your a regular.

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                        • #27
                          Nick wrote: View Post
                          Way to make something out of nothing, you are the epitome of whats wrong with analytical analysis on a broad scale. Its easy to pinpoint when your a regular.
                          Huh?!
                          I don't get it.
                          I know you're not talking to me, I just don't get it.

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                          • #28
                            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            Huh?!
                            I don't get it.
                            I know you're not talking to me, I just don't get it.
                            Derozan isn't noticeably standing out to the mainstream.

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                            • #29
                              Nick wrote: View Post
                              Derozan isn't noticeably standing out to the mainstream.
                              That is because the mainstream US doesn't watch the Raptors. The problem is you get these 'experts' giving analysis on second or third hand information or opinions that are old.

                              Here is the 2009 draft: http://www.nba.com/draft2009/

                              Name one player from that draft, besides Griffin because he is a rookie this year, who has made more progress this year than DD.

                              The only player I could argue has made more progress is Jrue Holiday. Evans and Curry actually seem to have regressed.

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                              • #30
                                Nick wrote: View Post
                                Who are you talking to me or the guy who wrote the article? Way to make something out of nothing, you are the epitome of whats wrong with analytical analysis on a broad scale. Its easy to pinpoint when your a regular.
                                I just feel like I've completely missed part of a conversation here. Bucher said "I haven't been blown away by his progress so far." Several of us countered that opinion, saying that he has developed very well this season, pointing to stats as well as other evidence.

                                Then you come out and call us biased because you said that DeRozan has not jumped out as better than his sophomore peers. Great. Unfortunately, that's not the argument. In fact it has nothing to do with the argument. None of us compared DeRozan to ANY of his peers, as far as I know. I simply told you that.

                                And now you call me the epitome of what's wrong with analytical analysis on a broad scale???? Are you having conversations in your head and thinking they're real? Because I really have no idea what you're talking about, and apparently I'm not the only one.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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