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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    I find it amusing how Bargnani can dog it for weeks and you'll step up to bat for him day after day yet all it takes is one bad game by DeMar and you're all over the guy. DeMar DeRozan is progressing faster than Bargnani did and in year two of his career he's making more of an impact than Bargnani did in year two of his career. At the end of the day DeMar is one of the best defenders and scorers on the team and he's only three years removed from high school.
    I would tend to disagree, unless you can backup your claims of DD's "impact" with facts.
    I think he has disappointed, and that all the hype around him blinds you to the facts, as it does to many fans.

    Comment


    • Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
      Thank you very much. And this is only his second year. Barg or King Barg or should I say Queen Barg has been her for FIVE years and still haven't figured out how to help the team yet.

      Also MultiPaul, I remember my post about Amir having more blocks than Barg had rebounds and you stated that that post so be in the Barg post not the everything raptors. So what gives here?
      This post is about DD, and how when Bargs is not playing, he is disappointing. In a nutshell, he is not a capable enough player without a big-dog like gangster Bargs on the floor

      Comment


      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Paul if you review the posts you discussed Bargnani in #1 and #5. The first few responses were all DD. You can't open a can of worms and then complain because they are crawling over the table. (BTW, is that an expression? If not, I would like to claim it).

        As for my thoughts, you may not like them. I started a thread calling him out in November and have since lived to (thankfully) regret it.

        There is no doubt he was drafted a project. I'm pretty sure every pre-draft write up on him had 'raw' and 'athleticism' all over it.

        If you look at his development physically, he has been extremely impressive. His skinny little frame is starting to fill out and there is much more room for development.

        If you look at his development offensively, last year he was a stand up 17-18ft jump shooter with an occassional lob dunk. This year he is showing great ability to play without the ball running off screens to get a look. His dribbling ability was awful last year so it is not hard to improve on it, but give him credit, he has - granted there is still much improvement needed. His jump shot has become very consistent and he has developed a post game - there have been a couple of moves that left my jaw hanging. He definitely needs to improve on his finishing but that comes back to his physical development, in my opinion, and he has in fact improved in this regard from last year. He has shown flashes of creating for others and I'm sure as he gains experience, he will get better - there is no reason shown to think otherwise. People knock him for the 3 point shot but that is something he can develop down the road. As long as his toe is on the 3 point line, he has shown the ability to consistently knock down the long range 2. His FT% is great at 80% and since Jan. 1 he is averaging around 85%. Considering his FGA totals have doubled and he is a much more focal part of the offense, shooting a little over 47% on the season is very impressive.

        From a rebounding perspective, I would like to see more and think he can and should be able to get roughly 5 per game.

        From a defensive standpoint, he has shown improvement. He is doing better getting around screens and not losing his man. He has shown an edge and a willingness to stand his ground. He is averaging a steal a game which is respectable. His defense still does need to get much better. The reason for optimism on this is his physical tools and his shown desire to work hard and get better.

        Considering his touches he has a reasonable 1.7 TO per game. He has shown these tend to come in bunches for him but given the amount of time he has had the ball this year - and he is still developing his handle - that is very respectable.

        In summary, what do I think of his progress? Excellent. I could not have asked for anything more out of him this season. I hope he continues to play as well over the last 9 games and shows true determination and integrity.

        What do I think of the hype? I'm not sure he's been hyped. The comparison to Jordan in a thread recently is a bit much but, besides that, considering the strides he has made, he deserves every bit of compliments he has received. Like it or not, agree or not, he was a project coming out of college. If he can improve his defense and ball handling this summer like he has improved his mid range and overall offensive game this season, he will be very widely respected around the league - and rightfully so.

        Do I consider him a franchise player? Absolutely not. I do not think he will ever develop in to one either. If I had to choose between trading Bargnani after what I've seen in 5 years and DD after what I've seen in 2 years, I would pick DD to stay.
        Now that is an intelligent, fact based reply by one of the best moderators in the game, Matt52

        Comment


        • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
          lmaooooo

          yoyoy i got new nickname for ilmagooo

          you ready>!!@@@#!$@$ miami heat big 3 intro hypeee










          NSN

          NO STATS NEEDED!!!

          what whatttttttttt!
          NSN 4 Life!

          NSNWO!

          Comment


          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
            I'm not saying that the actual block or steal is bad, but the fact that someone gets steals or blocks doesn't make them a good defensive player. If someone gambles a lot to get steals, then that's bad defense. And just because someone blocks 2 shots a game, doesn't mean they are playing good defense the rest of the time.

            And you may have missed my last post where I went into more detail about what a good defensive player does.

            As for Bargnani, I don't think there's any way you can call Bargnani anything but a poor defensive player. He doesn't put in a consistent effort, too often gives deep position, gets beat far too much, doesn't rotate well and doesn't seem to know where to be a lot of the time. He gives up too many offensive rebounds, doesn't get enough defensive rebounds, doesn't play the pick and roll well at all, will either over commit or under commit when he has to help. The notion that Bargnani is only a poor defensive player because of the system he plays in discounts the fact that neither Amir nor Davis play poor defense despite playing in the same system.

            I think having a poor defensive team can highlight a players poor defense, but anyone who knows what to look for can see the difference between a decent defender on a bad team and a bad defender on a bad team. It's why I defended Bosh's defense last season when people said he was as bad as Bargnani. It's not that Bosh was a good defender, but he obviously knows what to do most of the time. Effort is not always there but he's not a liability on that end of the court.
            I agree, you are not directly saying that a steal or block is bad, but you are implying it, when you say that a steal or block does not correlate to good defense, when in fact, it does. Youre not saying its bad, but you dont regard it as a good thing either. I do agree with your statement that getting a steal or block does not constitute being a good defensive player, but if you consistently get blocks and steals then you are a good defensive player. i think thats the word youve been missing. What im trying to instill is that steals and blocks are repertoires of a good defensive player. i dont think its coincidental that Howard has been back to back defensive player of the year and him averaging almost 3 blocks a game. although this award is given via media votes, only good defensive players are chosen as candidates for voting. When Artest won it, he avg a career best 2.1 stls, Wallace avg 2blks per game, and Howard 3 blks per game.

            I think we've exhausted out arguments on Bargnani, you say he's a poor defender, i say he's just doesnt have the skill to be a good defender. Does he try, i believe so, but he probably is frustrated too that he doesnt have the ability to defend as people expect him to. Is that a liability? most definitely, but i dont regard it as a reason to crucify him. sad and unfair as it may sound but if they want to keep bargnani on the team, they have to mask his "inability" to defend. anyways, enough of Bargs because this is actually a demar thread.

            i think people think demar has been a disappointment because of the expectations that was put on him at the start of the season. when bosh left, it may not be that obvious but the reigns was handed on to bargs and what bargs was to bosh before is what demar is now to bargs. and we all know the expectations everybody put on bargs alongside bosh. as per his natural progression goes in the NBA i dont think he's a disappointment but if you consider the "2nd option" tag, i guess i can see why. i for one am guilty of expecting him to average at least 20pts a game, 5 rebs and 5 asts. But that was my expectation, but im happy as to how he is playing now.

            Comment


            • tbihis wrote: View Post
              Like i always say, put Bargs beside a solid, defensive Center and he'll probably, and i say it again, PROBABLY, will be alright. Dirk has Tyson, Garnett had Perk, Bosh has Anthony, so on and so forth. But it doesnt stop there, you need to get a solid SF too SG and PG.
              No, he won't be alright. The opposing team will still attack him with an endless onslaught of pick and rolls and continue to get easy scores. Furthermore, now that he's exclusively matched up with opponents who are much faster and more athletic than him, he'll be left in the dust.

              Comment


              • Hey Multi, are you and Dunkin twins?? hehehe
                What happened to Buddha?? i havent seen his posts in a long time.

                Comment


                • tbihis wrote: View Post
                  Hey Multi, are you and Dunkin twins?? hehehe
                  What happened to Buddha?? i havent seen his posts in a long time.
                  I share the mans esteemed opinions it would appear, but twins we be not.

                  Where the hell is Buddha????

                  This thread needs an "Amir is the real saviour, forget King Bargs and DD"

                  Comment


                  • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    I share the mans esteemed opinions it would appear, but twins we be not.

                    Where the hell is Buddha????

                    This thread needs an "Amir is the real saviour, forget King Bargs and DD"
                    is bargnani paying you to say all this? if not, you have a love affair with bargnani if you like him this much.

                    Comment


                    • Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                      is bargnani paying you to say all this? if not, you have a love affair with bargnani if you like him this much.
                      I just speak the facts as I see them, and I would again remind you this is a Demar-centric post, not the great King Bargs.

                      On an interesting note..if you say I "love" Bargs...you must "loathe" him...did he do something to you?

                      Comment


                      • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                        I just speak the facts as I see them, and I would again remind you this is a Demar-centric post, not the great King Bargs.

                        On an interesting note..if you say I "love" Bargs...you must "loathe" him...did he do something to you?
                        all the facts you stated happend to be fake. So i don't know what your talking about

                        Comment


                        • tbihis wrote: View Post
                          i for one am guilty of expecting him to average at least 20pts a game, 5 rebs and 5 asts. But that was my expectation, but im happy as to how he is playing now.
                          So, you were expecting Year 2 Demar = Kobe in his prime? Yeah, I'd say your expectations were maybe a little, just a touch, too high.... Good grief. If Demar was 20/5/5 he would be one of the elite guards in the league. That would make him the 3rd best rebounding guard in the NBA, #1 in assists among 2-guards, and #9 in scoring. He would arguably be on par with guys like Kobe, Wade, Ginobli. Did people really expect these kinds of numbers?

                          Comment


                          • slaw wrote: View Post
                            So, you were expecting Year 2 Demar = Kobe in his prime? Yeah, I'd say your expectations were maybe a little, just a touch, too high.... Good grief. If Demar was 20/5/5 he would be one of the elite guards in the league. That would make him the 3rd best rebounding guard in the NBA, #1 in assists among 2-guards, and #9 in scoring. He would arguably be on par with guys like Kobe, Wade, Ginobli. Did people really expect these kinds of numbers?
                            Slaw, as a starting 2 in this league, he has been given an exceptionally long leash in terms of taking shots, creating off the dribble, etc, i think he has disappointed.

                            What level should he be at in terms of stats? What do you think?

                            I personally think his scoring, rebounding, assists, and 3 pt % should be wayyyyyyy higher. He can't stretch the defense until he learns how to shoot from distance.

                            Comment


                            • Brasky wrote: View Post
                              No, he won't be alright. The opposing team will still attack him with an endless onslaught of pick and rolls and continue to get easy scores. Furthermore, now that he's exclusively matched up with opponents who are much faster and more athletic than him, he'll be left in the dust.
                              thats up to the coach then. if Bargs can exploit matchups on offense, Triano should be able to evaluate who to put against opposing scoring bigs. sure there will be instances when bargs will have to defend the opposing scoring big but it happens. what im essentially saying is if they want bargs to remain on this team, they have to make adjustments based on his abilities. i mean for the love of god we all know how a "bad" defender he is, so if the team is going to gripe about it every single time then trade or release the guy. if he's still here, that means they want him to stay, so either get him Patrick Ewing or Alonzo Mourning to coach him on his defense, or switch matchup so he wont be exploited on defense. teams do it all the time. you can see it with kobe, lebron, wade. im not saying theyre not good defenders, but they dont "usually" put your star to guard the other team's star the whole game.

                              Comment


                              • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                                I share the mans esteemed opinions it would appear, but twins we be not.

                                Where the hell is Buddha????

                                This thread needs an "Amir is the real saviour, forget King Bargs and DD"
                                hahahaha for old times sake!

                                Comment

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