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  • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    I don't see How the same rushed shot in two different scenarios makes one better than the other. I think that most plays a team runs are not set up to score in the final seconds of the shot clock which shows teams that run a good efficient system will of course have better scoring chances. these will outweigh the horrid shot selection of some players who shoot early in the clock

    a bad shot is a bad shot to me.
    Depends really. It largely depends on where you want the player to get the shots, and how he's being guarded, how late/early in the possession, etc. What do you define a bad shot?
    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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    • BallaBalla wrote: View Post
      I'm not sure BC really regressed, as much as he always did things like this, it just worked out a couple of times for him.

      All I know is we are being put in a situation by him where our only options are:

      1. overpay rudy gay and be a good team but not a great one
      2. wait on rudy gay and hope that he plays badly enough not to warrant max money (which for Toronto would have to be pretty bad)
      3. lose rudy gay and give up ED and jose for nothing

      What's great about your Lowry comment is that we have no idea how valuable he considers him.

      All I know is that the Bargnani, Calderon, and Derozan contracts in the past make me VERY afraid of what he plans on signing Lowry for.

      At the end of the day, the only way that this turns into a really special team is for players to play far beyond their potential or develop some sort of tight chemistry with each other like Boston or SA where guys play better as a team.

      That's just the way BC drew it up
      Don't forget Amir. His contract looks good now, but it could have been for even less. I remember reading an interview with Amir where he talked about how he went into the contract session with a figure in mind, and then Colangelo throws out a figure that's was something like 7 mil more than what he would have accpeted...
      "Stop eating your sushi."
      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
      - Jack Armstrong

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      • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
        I don't see How the same rushed shot in two different scenarios makes one better than the other. I think that most plays a team runs are not set up to score in the final seconds of the shot clock which shows teams that run a good efficient system will of course have better scoring chances. these will outweigh the horrid shot selection of some players who shoot early in the clock

        a bad shot is a bad shot to me.
        Not really sure what you mean by this. Reuben mentioned that it depends what you mean by 'bad shot', and I think I agree:

        In one sense, there's nothing inherently bad about taking a shot early in the shot clock; in fact, what 'time' you shoot at says nothing, on its own, about the quality of the shot (in terms of how open you are, how close you are to the bucket, how good of a shooter you are etc.).

        It's true that in this same sense, a closely guarded long two is a bad shot no matter when it's taken.

        When you talk about the "horrid shot selection of players who shoot early in the clock" I think you're confusing two senses of 'bad shot'. Goldman says that shots taken earlier in the shot clock tend actually to be better shots than those taken late in the shot clock. He's not saying that the earlier you shoot the better your shot will be, but rather the longer you hold on to the ball, the lower your expected point output is.

        So yes, in a way, a bad shot is a bad shot -- but that's not really the point. The point is that when Rudy fires a contested two with 10 on the shot-clock, we get pissed at him and we really shouldn't be. The value of that shot is actually higher than the value of him kicking it back out and continuing the possession.

        Counter-intuitive, perhaps, but that's the whole point of analytics -- if they didn't tell us things we couldn't see with our own eyes, they'd be pretty redundant.

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        • themasao wrote: View Post
          Not really sure what you mean by this. Reuben mentioned that it depends what you mean by 'bad shot', and I think I agree:

          In one sense, there's nothing inherently bad about taking a shot early in the shot clock; in fact, what 'time' you shoot at says nothing, on its own, about the quality of the shot (in terms of how open you are, how close you are to the bucket, how good of a shooter you are etc.).

          It's true that in this same sense, a closely guarded long two is a bad shot no matter when it's taken.

          When you talk about the "horrid shot selection of players who shoot early in the clock" I think you're confusing two senses of 'bad shot'. Goldman says that shots taken earlier in the shot clock tend actually to be better shots than those taken late in the shot clock. He's not saying that the earlier you shoot the better your shot will be, but rather the longer you hold on to the ball, the lower your expected point output is.

          So yes, in a way, a bad shot is a bad shot -- but that's not really the point. The point is that when Rudy fires a contested two with 10 on the shot-clock, we get pissed at him and we really shouldn't be. The value of that shot is actually higher than the value of him kicking it back out and continuing the possession.

          Counter-intuitive, perhaps, but that's the whole point of analytics -- if they didn't tell us things we couldn't see with our own eyes, they'd be pretty redundant.
          So, how does Gay do on those shots and how does it compare with e.g. our efficiency when shooting in the last 10 seconds. So far, I've seen no analysis about that (and that's the whole point of analytics).

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          • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
            Hmmmmmmm. This is the first time I'm hearing of this. I know Lowry has some issues with the coaches sometimes - hasn't had any with Casey as far as I know - and Rudy is said to have a great attitude, and gets along well with his teammates...
            Explain?
            Lowry has issues with coaches, and from what I understand Memphis had issues with Gay. Wasn't it Gay that said there was nothing good about Memphis soon after he got here? So, my point is they have this history. The hope is that they get over that, and learn to listen well, and help the others along so they can be a great team. I really hope that is that is the way it will work out, however I am not convinced that this is the case. Only time will tell. Certainly we will not know before mid-next-season. If it works, the Raps are going to be a competitive team and should talk about extending their contracts. If not, we will have a new GM, is what I think.

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            • What the fuck is the rush again? Isn't Rudy's number somewhat on the decline? Can't we just wait until the end of his current one before we talk about an extension? Fuck, this is why I hate BC. Sorry for swearing but I've had fucking enough of this clown. You know what, BC is turning the Raps into this desperate franchise that will throw money at anyone just to prevent them from leaving. Ridiculous.

              #saynotoBC
              “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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              • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                Don't forget Amir. His contract looks good now, but it could have been for even less. I remember reading an interview with Amir where he talked about how he went into the contract session with a figure in mind, and then Colangelo throws out a figure that's was something like 7 mil more than what he would have accpeted...
                Really? Wow

                I never heard that but honestly I'm not surprised.

                Bottom line is, if he wants to sign these guys we should BC expect to overpay at this point

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                • Isn't it nice to have a guy like Rudy playing at the 3 spot for the Raptors instead of the long list of mediocrity that was before him.
                  His next deal won't be for less than his present one so don't even think about $15,000,000. It's not happening.
                  This is a team that wants to grow the brand in a huge population base. The GTA is third in size after New York and LA. Bigger than Chicago. The owners are the wealthiest in the nba. David Thompson is the 24th richest man on the planet with over 20 billion and the Rogers family has 3 times the wealth of Mark Cuban. If it takes a few million in a tax hit to acquire players that will help the franchise add value they can afford it and I believe they would love to see their teams on top.

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                  • RapRepRip wrote: View Post
                    Lowry has issues with coaches, and from what I understand Memphis had issues with Gay. Wasn't it Gay that said there was nothing good about Memphis soon after he got here? So, my point is they have this history. The hope is that they get over that, and learn to listen well, and help the others along so they can be a great team. I really hope that is that is the way it will work out, however I am not convinced that this is the case. Only time will tell. Certainly we will not know before mid-next-season. If it works, the Raps are going to be a competitive team and should talk about extending their contracts. If not, we will have a new GM, is what I think.
                    He was interviewed about that. He said he answered that way because he was angry, he loved Memphis and the city and organization, he felt like Memphis and the management "threw him away."
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • That's the one really bad knock on Colangelo... His ability to manage/negotiate a contract. He's made some other sketchy decisions, but his clear cut negative is the financial standpoint for players.
                      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                      • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                        He was interviewed about that. He said he answered that way because he was angry, he loved Memphis and the city and organization, he felt like Memphis and the management "threw him away."
                        Not very professional. Are Jose or Ed dissing the Raptors because they were traded? No. They are professionals that are deserving of respect, as opposed to someone with a chip on their shoulder. Hope he can change.

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                        • RapRepRip wrote: View Post
                          Not very professional. Are Jose or Ed dissing the Raptors because they were traded? No. They are professionals that are deserving of respect, as opposed to someone with a chip on their shoulder. Hope he can change.
                          What do you mean? It's the first time he's been traded, and while Jose and Ed aren't dissing Toronto (being their first times being traded too), Memphis didn't necessarily like Rudy as much as Toronto respected Ed/Jose. There's a difference, not to mention the fact Rudy's teammates/coaching staff in Memphis believed in him. Coach Lionel Hollins did not want Rudy to be traded. If anything, Memphis is just as much to blame with all the BS they said about the situation, which all contradicted everything they said when they dealt away Rudy...

                          It was his initial reaction to be traded, it's natural. He's still a human being. We and they all react in different ways. Jose was upset, and obvious he was heart broken. Ed was seemed angry, he did not seem to welcome the idea of being traded. All these assumptions are from the video of their road game in Atlanta the day the trade was made official..
                          He didn't react in a wrong way, nor did he say anything bad about Memphis. He was just upset, and felt the situation should have been handled better.
                          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                          • To add, Rudy was traded at that time. He did not sulk and whine about it WHEN he was Grizzly, he decided to speak about it after he got settled in. I don't believe there was anything unprofessional about him being upset, he admitted he loved Memphis.
                            Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                            • Well, Rudy is the best player they've had since Vince. This guy is a STAR. So if you can lock him up this summer, YOU DO IT. Can't let this guy walk away in 2 years. You build around him........and Valanciunas.

                              Also, people needs to realize that Rudy is only 26. So he's just entering his prime. Offer him a 4-5 year deal. Raptors probably have to overpay but that's how it works.
                              Mamba Mentality

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                              • I don't know how true this is 'cause it seems a little premature. If it's true, the only sensible reason I see is if the extension starts on 2015, it would negate the option year of the present contract. The reason for this could be to pay him less than the 19 mil. he'd make if he picked the option, thereby saving the Raptors some money and giving them cap flexibility.

                                Rudy is good but I don't think he's a max money player. However it may be necessary to pay him max money.
                                Attitude Is A Choice.

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